<Wizzup>
pretty sure rtcom plugin for calls and messages also allow searching contacts
<Wizzup>
yeah searching of messages is a different story
<Wizzup>
uvos__: ok, ty
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<rafael2k>
uvos__: nice phone! it would not be difficult to connect indeed
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<buZz>
uvos__: isnt droid4 -completely- US only?
<buZz>
wasnt*
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<rafael2k>
at least ITU Region 2...
<rafael2k>
it will certainly work
<rafael2k>
(aka - Americas)
<buZz>
no i mean, it wasnt sold -at all- outside US
<rafael2k>
ah, sorry
<buZz>
there was no EU version
<buZz>
the only 'EU version' was just people who installed normal updates from VerySun and travelled around
<rafael2k>
your are right, only US I think
<buZz>
right? thats why they are so 'rare' on ebay too
<rafael2k>
I could not find in Brazil's most common online shops either
<rafael2k>
just took a look
<uvos__>
buZz: yes thats the joke, d4s in europe where sold without lte, display, mainboard, keyboard etc
<uvos__>
buZz: we did see a d4 with a german keyboard in germany on ebay once
<buZz>
uvos__: well, many german scientists moved to that nation to help them make more weapons after WW2
<uvos__>
probubly a engeneering sample for a european release, that never came because motorola mobility was sold to google and restructured right after
<buZz>
maybe some didnt even care enough to learn Usian
<rafael2k>
German and Usian are not so different languages
<rafael2k>
:P
<uvos__>
wie bitte!?
<buZz>
Ja Genau
<buZz>
Blackwoodcherrypie anyone?
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<rafael2k>
does the N900 have version with Cyrillic alphabet keyboard?
<rafael2k>
trying to find one to practice my russian writing
<buZz>
N900 russian is a thing yeah
<rafael2k>
I even found a launch video in youtube
<rafael2k>
:P
<rafael2k>
- "the most important Nokia launch in 2009"
<rafael2k>
ol' times
<dsc_>
xa)
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<buZz>
^_^
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<norayr>
missMyN900: i wanted to tell you that i had a pinephone camera working on maemo leste
<missMyN900>
oh that is really cool
<norayr>
it was about a year ago and xorg was very luggy
<norayr>
but i can package it
<norayr>
i am very tired now but maybe even this night i will be able to
<missMyN900>
you don't really have to do it just for me if it a lot of work
<missMyN900>
PP camera is pretty bad anyway
<norayr>
but then it'll take some days till they'll open a repo in extras and a builder.
<norayr>
i actually like pp camera a lot.
<missMyN900>
my Z10 camera destroys it ;)
<norayr>
i'll tell you why
<norayr>
first of all i like that it is so dumb.
<norayr>
i love dumb cameras.
<norayr>
secondly i love the megapixels app because it has a script to postprocess raw files.
<norayr>
and it shoots raw by default!
<missMyN900>
megapixels takes ages to save the image though
<missMyN900>
I tried it on pmOS 22.06 (just released)
<norayr>
so when i shoot with other cameras i then must postprocess everything with imagemagick and my LUT presets.
<missMyN900>
I could not open the DNGs in Plasma Mobile...
<missMyN900>
only the JPEGs
<norayr>
and i automated megapixels just to save the jpeg which i need.
<norayr>
i don't need that generic jpeg it shoots by default. i need with my settings.
<norayr>
that is why i love megapixels. and i actually love pinephone.
<missMyN900>
I prefer my Z10 camera, to be honest
<missMyN900>
it was on par with the iPhone 4S camera so not bad
<norayr>
because it is the device with the battery i can remove. i prefer to have two batteries with me, and feed it often, but know i have a device
<missMyN900>
much faster
<norayr>
which i can run completely open os.
<norayr>
on.
<missMyN900>
actually I have 2 batteries for my Z10 as well :D
<missMyN900>
OS is not open but I know that it is not spying on me
<norayr>
how do you know?
<missMyN900>
BB was not in the advertising business ;)
<missMyN900>
besides BB10 servers have been shut down
<norayr>
ah, bb.
<missMyN900>
app store is closed
<missMyN900>
and I have it in flight mode almost always
<missMyN900>
and no SIM card inserted
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<norayr>
yeah i know. my wife uses bb bold. very old. i wrote a program in oberon which moved her google abook to bb.
<missMyN900>
Z10 is completely different though ;)
<missMyN900>
BB10 uses Qt like Sailfish and Harmattan
<norayr>
yeah i remembered i checked it out.
<missMyN900>
it is kind of Harmattan inspired like SFOS
<norayr>
and i wanted to say i like my compiler more because it is not in gcc infrastructure.
<missMyN900>
oh why do not like GCC?
<norayr>
i mean for me being a gcc part... well it is a good sign that maybe the compiler will be used more, be part of linux distributions etc
<missMyN900>
you think it is too big?
<missMyN900>
you prefer tcc as well? :P
<norayr>
but it is very complicated, and they change their internals often. they try to prevent development of forks.
<norayr>
if you have a fork with own backend or frontend it is very hard to backport all the changes.
<norayr>
whatever, it is big.
<missMyN900>
I also learned about OBNC
<norayr>
llvm is even worse, because the license. for me.
<missMyN900>
it is interesting
<norayr>
my compiler, unfortunately generates c. but it can use tcc, which is a simple compiler. it uses gcc by default though.
<dreamer>
what's wrong with the license?
<norayr>
let's not start it, i cannot tolerate bsd licenses.
<missMyN900>
I think norayr prefers GPL vs BSD/MIT etc
<dreamer>
lol
<missMyN900>
I am not that hard core FOSS, to be honest
* dreamer
neither
<norayr>
but i had another compiler which generated assembly. it is now published but for about a decade i was not sure if i can publish it so i put more effort
<dreamer>
well I consider bsd/mit/isc FOSS
<norayr>
into the other source tree which i was able to distribute under gpl.
<dreamer>
they are compatible with GPL
<dreamer>
but they simply allow proprietary changes. in some cases that's fine imo
<norayr>
they allow corporations to improve and not participate in evolution.
<norayr>
that's why unix itself was fragmented but neither branch particularly gained anything.
<missMyN900>
the success of FOSS has also led to some undesirable things occurring IMHO
<dreamer>
for "infrastructure" I do agree that it's better to have GPL-type licensing to keep common infra as commons
<norayr>
there are cool changes but those changes die in their own branches.
<missMyN900>
i.e. move from companies selling software to things like data mining/collection
<missMyN900>
it can be hard to make money with FOSS (in a somewhat ethical way) as well
<norayr>
sure. no idea how to do that.
<missMyN900>
GPL is a better business model though than BSD ;)
<norayr>
well some can. i like it when they sell 'conversations' app on google play.
<missMyN900>
just look at Qt or MuPDF
<norayr>
but it is open and available on fdroid for free.
<missMyN900>
those are GPL
<norayr>
or ardour devs sell builds for money.
<missMyN900>
Osmand has something similar
<missMyN900>
full version is free on F-Droid but costs money in the Play Store
<dreamer>
yeah people saying GPL/FOSS cannot be commercial do not understand it ;)
<norayr>
yes very cool. gpl does not prohibit selling software.
<missMyN900>
I agree but it can be harder than just selling proprietary software
<dreamer>
now ardour devs are not rolling in money or anything, but they have a significant following and are able to make ends meet
<norayr>
it doesn't even prohibit having changes and not sharing those changes.
<missMyN900>
and I consider selling closed source software much more ethical than what Google etc are doing
<norayr>
it only says if you publish binary with your changes you also need to distribute the source code with the same license.
<dreamer>
norayr: well GPL does, in a way. for private changes that's fine. but if you try to do anything with your GPL changes you are obliged to publish
<dreamer>
if someone requests to see the code you legally have to give it
<missMyN900>
I prefer closed source BB10 to Google Android with Play Services. Maybe that makes me a heretic ;)
<missMyN900>
of course, Nokia/Maemo was even better :D :(
<norayr>
dreamer: if i use it in my company i think i don't need to publish it.
<norayr>
anyway if it is that way i like it even more.
<norayr>
missMyN900: i was not able to use n900 because both my n900's died. with usb problem.
<norayr>
which cannot be repaired.
<missMyN900>
:(
<norayr>
but someone presented me two devices.
<norayr>
i gave one to the dev who was very inspired of maemo work, i had lots of hope in him, but he disappeared.
<missMyN900>
at least you have D4
<norayr>
the other i would like to use as a camera, and also to compare how the apps were working on fremantle, and how do they behave on leste.
<missMyN900>
that must be a decent replacement
<norayr>
currently i am porting three apps i think.
<missMyN900>
of course nothing will ever be the same as an N900...
<norayr>
and i love fcamera. it is the best camera ever.
<norayr>
i think someone can make the camera work on leste. the drivers are here.
<norayr>
the app is available.
<norayr>
i think someone who understands in v4l can make it work.
<norayr>
just it's not me.
<norayr>
missMyN900: expect a megapixels build from me. i didn't package it because someone in chat said someone else does it.
<norayr>
and if someone else was doing it i assumed they'd do it better than me.
<norayr>
so i didn't continue.
<norayr>
then my sdcard died and i lost every work which i didn't push to github.
<missMyN900>
ok I will gladly test it if it is coming in the near future
<missMyN900>
but I am thinking of selling my Pinephone
<norayr>
great. i think it'll be laggy but it'll work. because it was luggy but it was working.
<missMyN900>
I will try to install ML on the Atom tablet
<norayr>
i did photos with megapixels under pinephone myself.
<missMyN900>
if that doesn't work I may get a DB
<norayr>
just i was running it from console.
<missMyN900>
I am not that happy with the PP overall and it is still worth something now
<missMyN900>
if I sell it I can buy a ThinkPenguin USB LTE modem that is Linux compatible
<norayr>
yeah i am also thinking of using it on my old x86 computer which looks like flash drive, and connects to hdmi on tvset.
<missMyN900>
oh it probably also has such an Atom inside ;)
<norayr>
yes yes.
<missMyN900>
are going to create a 10 ft version of Hildon :D
<norayr>
i think it is 12 years old.
<norayr>
it runs latest debian now.
<missMyN900>
(10 ft refers to distance from a TV)
<norayr>
(:
<missMyN900>
Plasma has a "Big Screen" version
<missMyN900>
it is available on pmOS
<missMyN900>
you could build a pmOS with Plasma Big SCreen as well
<norayr>
i actually got one droid3. on the ebay photo i did not notice that the screen is cracked.
<missMyN900>
:(
<norayr>
also it was like it fell in to the bucket filled with glue.
<missMyN900>
you can also join #postmarketos on OFTC network, by the way
<norayr>
and then i washed it carefully, spent hours on it.
<norayr>
i am actually installing maemo on it now.
<norayr>
downloading images.
<norayr>
and i like it so much.
<norayr>
it is much more beautiful than droid4.
<norayr>
yeah i tried to join it, but i don't understand, probably my 'biboumi' xmpp->irc gateway doesn't do ssl connections, and that channel required ssl.
<norayr>
i am joined #sailfishos there via my gateway.
<missMyN900>
yes, I think it requires SSL/TLS
<norayr>
this all will be fixed when i move my server from funtoo to gentoo, but that is even more offtopic.
<norayr>
btw, gentoo, which was doing eudev old udev fork to be free of systemd
<missMyN900>
pmOS 22.06 is very unstable on my PP at least though
<norayr>
now gave up
<missMyN900>
just a heads up
<missMyN900>
noooooo
<norayr>
they created small udev package called systemd-udev or something like that.
<missMyN900>
at least Alpine does not depend on it
<norayr>
so they added three packages named systemd-something
<norayr>
but alpine has musl...
<missMyN900>
Alpine (and therefore pmOS) uses mdev from Busybox
<norayr>
devuan also doesn't depend on it.
<missMyN900>
oh that is good
<norayr>
void linux is using eudev by gentoo
<norayr>
so gentoo is still using openrc
<missMyN900>
I am running Alpine 3.16 on one laptop
<missMyN900>
very lightweight setup
<norayr>
but they got some source from systemd and created their own small utilities/services.
<norayr>
you know, pmos was sooo slow on my pp.
<norayr>
and i don't know what to blame it on except than on musl.
<missMyN900>
honestly, it is Plasma/Phosh
<missMyN900>
no, it is not musl
<norayr>
same phosh on manjaro or mobian was much faster.
<missMyN900>
I think they have a newer kernel
<norayr>
so sincerely i don't understand
<missMyN900>
ML uses Mobian kernel AFAIK too
<norayr>
also musl is not gpl and the creator has an article no how he dislikes gpl.
<missMyN900>
for the PP
<norayr>
i think no. rafael2k contributes patches to ml kernel.
<missMyN900>
oh that does not bother me too much
<norayr>
so i think it is a separate kernel. mainline with patches.
<missMyN900>
and there is only a limited number of choices for systemd-free Linux distros
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<missMyN900>
Alpine has never failed me
<norayr>
yeah it looks minimalistic.
<norayr>
i also liked (from far away) k1ss linux
<norayr>
but i think it is practically dead.
<norayr>
sorry i will disconnect and connect shortly.
<missMyN900>
Plasma is faster/smoother on 22.06 though
<missMyN900>
but it (or Wayland) is very unstable
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<norayr>
never liked qt or kde.
<norayr>
i loved gnome1
<norayr>
but even then it was very heavy for me.
<norayr>
i felt that ppl who develop this things have big, huge screens.
<dreamer>
norayr: yes you do
<norayr>
and i had i think 640x480 or 800x600 screens.
<dreamer>
norayr: you would be violating the GPL then
<dreamer>
I mean, not just about using the code. depends on what the code is/does
<norayr>
also to me the experience of kde felt very much like replicating windows ideas.
<dreamer>
but if you make modifications. or statically link to other code. you have to
<norayr>
gnome was different.
<norayr>
but anyway it was too heavy for my computers.
<norayr>
so i was always using windowmaker.
<norayr>
dreamer: first versions of kde were proprietary.
<norayr>
that's why gnome project started, to create a de which is free.
<dreamer>
sorry what are you responding to?
<dreamer>
because I don't care about DE's
<norayr>
i think you brought reasons why i wouldn't like kde.
<norayr>
that's why i continued that 'thread' of talk.
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<norayr>
missMyN900: yeah your droid3 looks good. but right now a little bit expensive for me.
<missMyN900>
norayr: actually it is a Bionic ;)
<norayr>
and btw what i don't like (though i believe the seller) is that there are just generic photos of the device. not the photos of that exact device.
<norayr>
oh.
<missMyN900>
better support but no hardware keyboard
<missMyN900>
1 GB also though
<dreamer>
norayr: I did not?
<missMyN900>
similar to D4 basically
<norayr>
wait let me look at it again.
<dreamer>
norayr: you said something about using modified GPL code in your company and then not needing to release those changes. that goes against the GPL
<norayr>
dreamer: i lost all our threads, sorry. i am so tired now. i was trying to concentrate on packaging something, but i also have two jobs and my brain
<norayr>
doesn't work now.
<dreamer>
ok, sure. I won't continue the conversation :)
<missMyN900>
dreamer: no, it doesn't
<missMyN900>
only the company distributes the software
<missMyN900>
*if
<norayr>
dreamer: so if it goes against gpl, i am glad. but i knew it differently for some reason.
<missMyN900>
as long as you do not distribute but only use it internally/for personal use there is no issue
<norayr>
missMyN900: i knew it like that too.
<dreamer>
missMyN900: well that's what I said earlier too. but if you use it to run your company. it's not exactly "personal use"
<missMyN900>
I also said internally :)
<norayr>
ok will try to install leste on droid3.
<missMyN900>
as long as you do not distribute it
<dreamer>
I don't see how the GPL allows that
<dreamer>
there are different interpretations of "distribute"
<dreamer>
simply installing it on a remote machine can be considered "distributing" :)
<missMyN900>
if the company modifies it, they do not have to open source their changes
<missMyN900>
the company is one entity
<missMyN900>
the individual employees are working for the company
<missMyN900>
the IP they create at work is property of the company
<dreamer>
just using it (say you make patch to the code so it works on a specific system) is fine
<missMyN900>
if they want to distribute to customers then there is a problem
<dreamer>
yeah
<dreamer>
and if unmodified but you statically bind it to your own code. then your code gets "infected" with GPL too
<missMyN900>
but if you want to run some hacked GPL licensed server software for internal use, you can do that
<dreamer>
which is why a lot of companies don't like GPL :#
<dreamer>
we had a lot of internal discussions in our company in which way we could still use GPL licensed code
<dreamer>
we don't exactly distribute anything. except for frontend code. but that's in the browser anyway so technically the code is already available :P
<dreamer>
but actually the FE is only comprised of bsd/mit/apache based libs in the end
<missMyN900>
anyway, it is time for me to try to install Devuan Beowulf on the Atom tablet :)
<missMyN900>
and then hopefully ML/Hildon
<dreamer>
hmm. I still have an atom netbook that can't really run much of anything these dayss
<missMyN900>
install Alpine like I did on my dual core Richland laptop :)
<missMyN900>
I am running fluxbox on it
<missMyN900>
use w3m for limited web browsing (Netsurf is in edge/testing so eventually I will use that)
<missMyN900>
Alpine 3.16 is easier to install for desktop use than earlier versions
<missMyN900>
icewm is in edge/testing as well so eventually I will switch to that as I also use it on my desktop
<dreamer>
fluxbox <3
<missMyN900>
or you could build a pmOS image for it ;)
<dreamer>
has been my main WM for nearly 15 years now ..
<missMyN900>
I am only using it since it was available on Alpine tbh
<missMyN900>
I could not get JWM to work
<dreamer>
it has all the features I expect from a WM
<dreamer>
also, dockapps <3
<missMyN900>
I have used spectrwm in recent past as well
<missMyN900>
but it is also not available in the Alpine repos