<missMyN900>
put the latest image on a microSD today to bring my Pinephone back to life again after months of it collecting dust
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<missMyN900>
it was kind of strange. For some time after boot, the screen was black (even though it was on). I could hear the sounds when I touched the screen but could not see the UI. The phone would not respond to the volume or power buttons either (except for the feedback sounds). After I had let it sit a while, it finally showed the Maemo lock screen when I pressed the power button. Then, I unlocked the phone and the screen went
<missMyN900>
black again immediately. The second time I unlocked it, I could finally access the homescreen. Now it works normally.
<missMyN900>
Anyway, I was pleasantly surprised to see that QtWebbrowser is now available indeed. It works beautifully on the Pinephone!
<missMyN900>
I had to resize the file system manually on the latest image. I could not install any additional packages after having installed qtwebbrowser due to lack of space (the partition was only 1.7 GB on my 64 GB card)
<Wizzup>
yes
<missMyN900>
Also, the new volume control feature does not seem to work on the Pinephone
<Wizzup>
did you see /etc/expandcard.sh ?
<missMyN900>
no
<missMyN900>
is there some first-boot guide or something? I think I may have closed that due to the screen being black
<missMyN900>
I just used a guide from Stackoverflow :)
<missMyN900>
fdisk + partx + resize2fs
<missMyN900>
unix.stackexchange technically, I guess
<missMyN900>
pavucontrol is really clunky on the Pinephone :(
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<missMyN900>
also, the battery indicator does seem to work partially on the Pinephone but it does not show a percentage ("calibration needed")
<missMyN900>
this is all on a Convergence Edition, by the way, (3 GB RAM) in case no one else has one
<Wizzup>
mighty17[m]: there should be @ guide
<Wizzup>
sorry semi afk atm :(
<Wizzup>
(will be back later)
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<uvos>
missMyN900: callibration needed means that your battery dosent report charge state so voltage based estimation is used instead
<uvos>
idk if the pp can report battery state
<uvos>
missMyN900: there is a fist boot guide yeah
<uvos>
we should maybe create a .desktop file to launch it again after its been closed
<missMyN900>
I just hope the black screen issue doesn't return anymore
<uvos>
there are several issues with the pp
<uvos>
wrt volume
<uvos>
i maintain the audio stack more or less atm
<uvos>
but i dont have a pp
<uvos>
so its hard for me to fix this
<missMyN900>
maybe some affordable used PPs will become available now that the PPP has arrived
<uvos>
well im also not really interested in a pp
<missMyN900>
I don't know if pmOS uses pulseaudio
<uvos>
due to the bad power managment and lack of kbd
<missMyN900>
why not? Lack of hardware keyboard?
<missMyN900>
power management will improve
<uvos>
no it cant
<missMyN900>
why not?
<missMyN900>
The A64 is a tablet SoC is it not?
<missMyN900>
It's not like the RPis
<uvos>
the main problem with it its that it takes really long to enter idle states
<uvos>
so while the droid4 can suspend 60 times a second
<uvos>
and have the device remain "running"
<uvos>
the pp really has to enter pc style suspend for minutes at a time
<missMyN900>
what about the RK3399?
<missMyN900>
that should be a little bit more advanced than the old A64
<uvos>
no idea youd have to look at the cost table for the idle states
<missMyN900>
RK3399 is used in Chromebooks too (OP1)
<missMyN900>
so the TI OMAP is still a little bit more sophisticated than the cheap Allwinners?
<uvos>
pm wise yeah
<uvos>
omap is a "real" smartphone chip with really low idle/resume times
<missMyN900>
I guess Mediatek is promising for the future
<uvos>
maybe sure
<missMyN900>
they seem to be improving wrt to open source support
<uvos>
problem is also having good upstream support
<missMyN900>
Ralink must be rubbing off on them ;)
<uvos>
the omap also dose well here with ti having upstreamed mostly everything
<missMyN900>
having a PPP 2.0 with Mediatek SoC would be awesome
<uvos>
due to widespread usage in industrial boards
<missMyN900>
still a separate modem, of course, though
<uvos>
(which have long lifespan)
<missMyN900>
ironically Allwinner and Rockchip (at least the older chips) are supported much better by Linux distributions and *BSDs than the i.MX6 (I have a Wandboard Dual)
<missMyN900>
i.MX8 support is lackluster too
<missMyN900>
for example, with NetBSD i.MX seems to technically be supported but it is not really advertised
<missMyN900>
and in practice I think that not much works aside from booting
<missMyN900>
so you won't have working audio, display etc
<uvos>
thats true for some chps used by sbc yeah
<missMyN900>
i.MX8 also is rather dated and products using it tend to expensive
<missMyN900>
Allwinner H6 and RK3566 are more attractive (Pine H64 and Quartz64 SBCs)
<uvos>
sure yeah
<uvos>
but supported well enough for sbc and supported well enough to work well as a phone are different targets
<missMyN900>
the new Olimex STM32MP157 LIME2 interests me
<uvos>
not that i know the exact state of these
<uvos>
but even with kernel support for all of the pm features of omap4 being in manline allready
<missMyN900>
the first SBC with a European SoC in a long time. I think it is good to have an alternative to American and Chinese SoCs
<uvos>
it still was quite the undertaking getting all the pm features working for just a single phone in practice
<uvos>
(ie the droid4)
<missMyN900>
how about N900 pm with mainline?
<uvos>
terrible
<uvos>
none of the pm features work
<missMyN900>
everything needs to redone?
<uvos>
because of issues with device drivers
<uvos>
no
<uvos>
so the n900 has 2 problems
<missMyN900>
SGX?
<uvos>
no sgx is fine
<uvos>
its device drivers and a omap3 having mutch larger idle entry costs than omap4 that makes it harder to enter idle states with modern linux
<uvos>
as modern linux is quite busy timer wise
<sicelo>
missMyN900: yes pmos uses pulseaudio
<missMyN900>
volume control with buttons does work on pmOS on the PP
<uvos>
sure its a leste userpsace problem
<uvos>
it only works on mapphones atm
<missMyN900>
but how can that be specific to the PP?
<uvos>
(btw mapphones == droid4 and some other motorola devices of same age)
<missMyN900>
when the kernel and pulseaudio etc is the same (as with pmOS)
<missMyN900>
yes, I know
<uvos>
missMyN900: well
<uvos>
missMyN900: so there are 3-4 problems
<missMyN900>
there were quite some OMAP4 devices around that time
<missMyN900>
I used to have a Galaxy Nexus (only bought it in 2019 LOL) with OMAP4460
<uvos>
1. mce cant recive the key events because it expects the event devices to be layed out in a certin way (legay from when everything was hardcoded to fit the n900 and only the n900)
<uvos>
2. we dont autodetect the audio sink that needs adjustment, instead its in a config file (again legacy from n900 hardcoding)
<uvos>
3. the volume buttons are currently intercepted by hildon because thats the only way to bring up the kbd when your in a applicaion without him integration
<missMyN900>
I used it as an MP3 player for some time
<missMyN900>
problem is with those old phones is the batteries
<uvos>
luckly the d4 gets a pass on that
<missMyN900>
they are shot. I replaced it with a BlackBerry Z10 (I used to own a Classic, too: N900 -> Jolla -> Classic -> Moto G with LineageOS -> iPhone :( )
<uvos>
its battery is connected by 2 screw terminals
<uvos>
so any old lipo will do
<missMyN900>
got a new, second battery for the Z10
<sicelo>
missMyN900: how many physical keys does the pp have by the way
<missMyN900>
same issue
<missMyN900>
looking at it right now: only volume rockers and power button
<missMyN900>
although I think it is a bit better than the GN
<missMyN900>
the drain is horrible and when it is drained too much, the battery won't charge in the phone anymore
<missMyN900>
(I got the second, new battery as a part of kit with an external official BB charger)
<missMyN900>
so I have to swap the battery again
<missMyN900>
uvos: fortunately, I did not the PP to replace my iPhone (although that would have been nice for sure)
<missMyN900>
*get
<missMyN900>
I actually got it to use an LTE hotspot (for internet outages; our ISP is terrible) since the iPhone sucks for that
<missMyN900>
of course, it is a cool toy as well ;)
<uvos>
yeah sure
<sicelo>
You can help to make leste work better on it
<uvos>
pp is a good dev platform
<uvos>
also
<uvos>
at the very least
<missMyN900>
sicelo: unfortunately I do not have much time for dev, but certainly I can report bugs and maybe test some fixes/patches sometimes
<sicelo>
Or, if you just want something that already works, pmOS with phosh or plasma mobile is really great too.
<missMyN900>
sicelo: yes, I was already using that as my main OS
<missMyN900>
I don't like Arch and I like Alpine, so pmOS is natural for me
<sicelo>
I don't like alpine :-p
<missMyN900>
I don't like Phosh either, even though Plasma is not great either currently at least
<missMyN900>
why not?
<missMyN900>
what is not to love?
<uvos>
i dont like devuan :P
<missMyN900>
no systemd, musl, you can use whatever audio you want (even sndio from OpenBSD), it is fast, low RAM consumption
<sicelo>
missMyN900: anyway i maintain the n900 port on pmos since recently
<uvos>
also: no systemd, musl.
<uvos>
:P
<missMyN900>
you prefer systemd?
<missMyN900>
Maemo did not have systemd ;)
<uvos>
yeah so on a phone it makes a lot of sense, unfortinalty (i dislike politics around systemd)
<sicelo>
i have zero problem with systemd. I think even alpine is currently considering a change of init system
<missMyN900>
I don't see how it would make to switch to systemd but use musl and busybox frankly (apart from my personal opinions on systemd)
<missMyN900>
I don't know if systemd would even work with musl and I frankly doubt that the devs would be very receptive to accepting patches for it
<uvos>
regarding musl, i dont think the compatability problems are worth runing something other than glibc for "lightness"
<sicelo>
Yes they will be going to some new init or sth. Openrc seems subpar in some way
<sicelo>
missMyN900: actually last month someone made a systemd MR to alpine, but it was vehemently rejected by alpine folk :-D
<missMyN900>
runit perhaps? I don't know much about init. I am not saying that systemd init in it self is bad but I dislike all the integration and the massive largely newly written C code base. Just seems like a bad idea to me.
<missMyN900>
sicelo: can't say that I am very sad about that frankly. If you want really want to use systemd, there a lot of options out there
<sicelo>
Hehe
<sicelo>
I understand. I'm glad debian allows me to choose *any* init (unlike alpine) :-p
<missMyN900>
I am currently running Debian but I will switch to Devuan in the future. Already installed it on some devices.
<missMyN900>
I decided shortly after installing it that I should have installed Devuan but I can't keep wasting time on reinstalls, so for now I am sticking with Debian on my desktop
<sicelo>
I never saw the ram consumption stuff ... i ran debian on my n900, and also pmos. At idle, ram usage was mainly same
<missMyN900>
true, I just saw a couple days ago that RAM consumption was < 600 MB on AMD64 with Devuan+MATE
<missMyN900>
I don't know how much systemd adds to RAM consumption though ;)
<sicelo>
I was using systemd ... didn't see much difference
<missMyN900>
but that is not related to musl, of course
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<sicelo>
Anyway, comparison was alpine/musl vs. others/glibc. I don't see the difference so much
<sicelo>
(RAM, I mean)
<missMyN900>
yes, that is why I said it is not related to musl ;)
<sicelo>
The only real difference i see is that the base size of an alpine install is smaller ... but, how's that achieved? Not installing man pages ... um.
<sicelo>
What don't you like about phosh?
<sicelo>
I like to think it's modern hildon :-P
<missMyN900>
seemed to have very little features to me
<missMyN900>
hmm, I disagree with that
<missMyN900>
I can see why people would say Mobian is modern Maemo
<missMyN900>
but the UI of Phosh is not a true successor to Hildon
<missMyN900>
the Sailfish UI, for example, was better
<missMyN900>
(although still not a true successor)
<sicelo>
Of course. Nothing can be. Not even the sfos ui is successor
<missMyN900>
Phosh seems like a generic, uninspired, featureless typical smartphone UI to me
<sicelo>
missMyN900: phosh is gtk, like hildon ;-)
<missMyN900>
I know
<missMyN900>
but that is far from enough IMHO
<missMyN900>
I cannot understand why they designed it the way they did
<missMyN900>
when they had so many great sources of inspiration
<sicelo>
missMyN900: i haven't seen that many people interested in (modernized) hildon, tbh. Not even on tmo.
<missMyN900>
sicelo: really?
<missMyN900>
I think it is great, especially with larger screens such as the Pinephone
<missMyN900>
I think it could be great on the Pinetab too
<sicelo>
Maybe I just miss them :-)
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<missMyN900>
anyway, recently I was thinking that maybe the PP could replace my iPhone too eventually. Looks like that won't be happening with the lackluster power management...
<sicelo>
How's the suspend working for you in pmOS? I think I've seen others get up to two days on a single charge ...
<missMyN900>
it will still make for a decent LTE hotspot in a pinch and tablet though
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<missMyN900>
I haven't used pmOS for months. My PP was collecting dust
<missMyN900>
unfortunately, I either forget the PIN code or there is some bug
<missMyN900>
now I am just waiting for 22.06 because I have gotten tired of constantly flashing a new image and I don't want to wear out the flash either
<missMyN900>
in the mean time I am running ML from a microSD, like I was before
<sicelo>
Okay. The power mgmt is definitely not comparable to the OMAPs for sure, but somehow the suspend stuff seems to be working. Not ideal, but for some users, it's good enough
<missMyN900>
I think I keep using Maemo primarily in the future, especially as it improves and only remove the microSD (so it boots from eMMC) when I need the LTE hotspot
<sicelo>
What prevents Hotspot from Maemo
<missMyN900>
I don't know if I can use LTE on ML
<missMyN900>
certainly there is no GUI for it
<sicelo>
Why wouldn't you? :-)
<missMyN900>
I have no experience with ofono cli utils :)
<sicelo>
LTE is supported on pp, i believe. I recal
<missMyN900>
actually, I also have the "dock" (USB hub), which I want to use to connect to my computers with ethernet in the future
<sicelo>
I designed the icon for it, and I recall someone showing it live
<missMyN900>
I don't see any cellular related applet on the PP
<missMyN900>
also, no volume applet as mentioned before
<missMyN900>
it is still very minimal on the PP
<missMyN900>
not complaining though :)
<missMyN900>
I am happy that qtwebbrowser is available now and working very well
<sicelo>
It shows 4G (instead of LTE, because I didn't figure out a good way to show full LTE in the available space)
<missMyN900>
LTE has been an issue for me in the past with T-Mobile US
<missMyN900>
I could not get LTE until late 2021 with pmOS
<missMyN900>
Plasma Mobile added an APN autodetect feature that finally fixed LTE for me
<missMyN900>
the default (which is also the official recommended by T-Mobile setting) APN does not work
<missMyN900>
only the autodetected mobile broadband APN works
<sicelo>
Please read through the last few news updates for the correct packages to install. Cellular has applets since a while now
<missMyN900>
I think it may be a laptop with LTE modem oriented APN possibly
<missMyN900>
I did not see any cellular applet in the Hildon package manager certainly
<missMyN900>
only WiFi related stuff
<sicelo>
Use apt
<missMyN900>
ok
<sicelo>
Wizzup: can also tell you the exact packages you need. I've got a lot of stuff in my droid4 (it's an old image that i just apt upgrade), so I no longer j what's
<sicelo>
*Know what's needed and what's not
<missMyN900>
uvos: wait but all the audio issues on the PP are only related to the hardware buttons, right?
<missMyN900>
so the volume applet should still work if I install it?
<missMyN900>
hmm PP gets very hot when charging, in general it feels hot
<missMyN900>
but it is actually on 54 C, so not too bad
<missMyN900>
during normal use it seems to be about 40 C
<missMyN900>
what is weird that the part of the phone where the modem is located seems to get significantly hotter than the battery part
<missMyN900>
which is the opposite of what you would expect when charging
<missMyN900>
*only 54 C
<missMyN900>
hmm I did tried "apt search applet | grep status" but did not find anything sound related
<uvos>
sicelo: missMyN900: should be hildon-connectivity-mobile meta package
<missMyN900>
oh I just read the 16th update again
<missMyN900>
and was reading the audio support part of the 15th update
<uvos>
missMyN900: its maemo-statusmenu-volume
<missMyN900>
thanks, will try it
<missMyN900>
but why is it not installed by default if I may ask?
<uvos>
idk i though it was
<uvos>
it wont work on pinephone
<missMyN900>
what part?
<uvos>
every part
<missMyN900>
hardware buttons?
<uvos>
slider
<missMyN900>
what about the software slider?
<missMyN900>
but how is that related to the PP?
<uvos>
wont work
<uvos>
i explained before
<uvos>
the sinks are different
<missMyN900>
well, yes, the events but that is hardware related, right?
<uvos>
[23:02] <uvos> 2. we dont autodetect the audio sink that needs adjustment, instead its in a config file (again legacy from n900 hardcoding)
<missMyN900>
16th update said that the correct sink is now selected by default
<missMyN900>
on PP
<uvos>
thats what i thought
<uvos>
but its wrong
<missMyN900>
:(
<uvos>
anyhow
<uvos>
you can make it work
<missMyN900>
ok
<missMyN900>
pactl or something?
<missMyN900>
or was it pacmd?
<missMyN900>
hmm looks like those both exists on Debian 11 at least
<uvos>
change it to sink_name=alsa_output.platform-sound.HiFi__hw_PinePhone_0__sink
<missMyN900>
oh so PA already has the correct sinks? It is jut the applet?
<uvos>
right
<missMyN900>
going to SSH for that...
<uvos>
obv the buttons wont work
<missMyN900>
yep
<missMyN900>
what was the user pw again?
<uvos>
idk
<missMyN900>
it won't accept "toor" as root pw when SSHing
<uvos>
just sudo passwd user
<missMyN900>
uvos: I am getting "does not exist" for that file in nano
<missMyN900>
wait for the directory
<uvos>
you need to have the applet installed
<uvos>
ofc
<missMyN900>
oh I need it to install it first
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<missMyN900>
uvos: I use my Pinephone in landscape mode with ML, should I change native_is_landscape to 1?
<uvos>
this only changes the behavior of the volume buttons
<uvos>
so dosent matter
<missMyN900>
it seems to work!
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<missMyN900>
most important thing for me is that I don't have to use pavucontrol on the Pinephone
<missMyN900>
looks like the PP with ML will become a nice small tablet
<missMyN900>
I am fine with the PP as a mini Pinetab with LTE capability that is available when needed. I think that the suspend-style power management will be adequate for that purpose too.
<missMyN900>
if I had paid $600-1000 for this then I would not be satisfied but considering what the Pinephone costs this is more than acceptable for me
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<missMyN900>
hmm it certainly does not seem to have an effect on the mplayer volume...
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<missMyN900>
experienced the blackscreen bug again...
<missMyN900>
after waiting a little while it would finally respond to the power button again and display the lock screen
<missMyN900>
I think the screen even went black randomly when I was trying to watch a video wiht mplayer
<missMyN900>
I had already changed the timeout to 1 min since 30 s was getting really annoying, so I doubt the screen turned off due to the automatic timeout
<missMyN900>
I think there are some freezes every now and then too. I am not 100% sure but the screen and UI seem prett sensitive normally, so it seems it can't really be me not pressing a button properly
<missMyN900>
I would like having a Droid 3/4 but I don't think it is a good idea for me to get such an old device if I can even find one for a reasonable price
<missMyN900>
I never get the latest and greatest hardware but 2010-12 is really getting a bit too old for me, not because of performance but just because of the age of the device
<missMyN900>
I got a laptop recently with a Richland APU from 2013 but it was only actually used from 2016
<missMyN900>
I feel like I got burned a little by the Nexus and Z10. Not really looking to repeat that anymore at this point.