<rafael2k>
and then "standard" userland can be used!
<rafael2k>
libcamera guys are helping... cool
<rafael2k>
then hopefully it will be just gstreamer "plug-and-play" heavy lifting work
<sicelo>
rafael2k: yes (@meaning of DB)
<rafael2k>
tks sicelo
<sicelo>
for people who love/want/need hwkbd, sacrificing other phones for D4 makes sense. but such sacrifice for a TS-only omap phone ...
<rafael2k>
hopefully at some point this year I'll be able to join a jitsi meeting with video on firefox or chromium in Maemo running in the PP
<rafael2k>
sicelo: indeed... this is why I'm really trying hard to get the hwkbd working fine in the PP...
<sicelo>
:-)
<humpelstilzchen[>
and the pp keyboard works fine here
<rafael2k>
I mean, it works fine... until it burns. Let pay 50 bucks more to pine64 for another one.
<rafael2k>
may be it was just bad luck of myself
<humpelstilzchen[>
oh, did you attach anything to the Pine USB?
<rafael2k>
nope, I did nothing wrong...
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<buZz>
parazyd: hi :)
<buZz>
sicelo: imho PP is a fun toy but next to omaps pretty dumb
<buZz>
sicelo: its SO SLOW (PP) to draw the screen , droid4 feels like 10 years newer in comparison
<sicelo>
Not really. That's just a result of how much work has been put into each device in Leste. Try running pmOS with same UI on both. Then you'll get objective comparison
<buZz>
the GPU of droid4 is just a lot faster
<buZz>
i might try that , sicelo , i have a PP here on loan and a spare droid4
<buZz>
btw, that SGX540 is clocked at 66% of droid4's on that page
<buZz>
SGX540 seems to be winner in most tests there , if you realize we have it at 300mhz instead of the 200mhz there
* sicelo
concludes that he can't read, because he sees the page saying SGX is losing. Can't comment on clocking as there's no clocking info for the Mali
<buZz>
i was talking about the SGX clocks
<buZz>
but i agree, these sites are so often very unspecific about their specs
<buZz>
note how SGX also has 6 pipelines vs just 3 on mali400MP4
<sicelo>
btw after more than a year, i'm glad that i'll soon be returning to N900 as daily driver ;-)
<buZz>
:)
<Wizzup>
as opposed to?
<buZz>
we were just considering using a n900 as FM transmitter on a silent disco , maybe synchronized multiple with snapcast over wifi :P lol
<sicelo>
Samsung S7
<sicelo>
right now i carry 3 phones on a daily basis - N900 with non-working modem for alarm and calendar, S7, and A03s (for work)
<buZz>
maemo calendar is so nice :D
<sicelo>
i can then ditch the S7 once i use an n900 with working modem :-)
<buZz>
if only that time/date entry would work nicer, then i could enter stuff without this insane dance :D
<sicelo>
totally @agree @maemo calendar
<buZz>
and i dont know, i'd love to be able to see a whole week in 1 view, without scrolling
<buZz>
but i guess thats functionality it never had
<sicelo>
for the devices with no hwkbd, i understand there's competition between vol keys being used for volume and raising vkb. a wild thought passed my mind the other day - can't the function be context based?
<sicelo>
e.g. meaning of the vol keys is also context-based on fremantle. it's either zoom or vol, depending on application in focus. so maybe when an application that has input fields is in focus, could have it raise vkb, then do volume at all other times
<sicelo>
non-hwkb phones probably don't need zoom via vol keys anyway
<buZz>
sicelo: oh right
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<buZz>
maybe there's a 'blinking cursor visible' function to hook into
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<_uvos_>
so compearing gpus like this is extreamly fought with danger
<sicelo>
we're aware
<_uvos_>
but the sgx in mapphones has about the same pixel rate and a coupple of raw flops more then the pp
<_uvos_>
the gups are roughly equivalent in power
<_uvos_>
but the pp has to push more pixels
<_uvos_>
the pp probubly also has more memory bandwith
<_uvos_>
so that helps
<_uvos_>
so wrt buying a bionic instead of a pp
<_uvos_>
besides the way better powermanagement and margainally better leste support there are only downsides
<_uvos_>
im not convinced of the binary choice really tho
<_uvos_>
maybe one of the other well suported pmos devices would be a better choice
<_uvos_>
i never used it that mutch with linux
<buZz>
for running leste?
<_uvos_>
but pmos/phosh was very competent on xt1602
<_uvos_>
buZz: more for linux generally
<buZz>
honestly, i just care about maemo :P
<_uvos_>
the pp seams to have lots of hw rough edges
<buZz>
similar to pinebook
<_uvos_>
so maybe a different android device is a good idea
<sicelo>
yes OnePlus is something else
<buZz>
i mean, its such low quality hw with near zero software support from vendor
<_uvos_>
if lte volte is a requirement
<_uvos_>
like x1602 or yeah the oneplus
<sicelo>
and the mainline support for SDM845 is coming in pretty fast.
<buZz>
nice
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<sicelo>
wonder how leste would look on oneplus' high-res screen. or did someone already try? can't recall if caleb did
<sicelo>
just people aren't interested in Leste much ... otherwise would been nice to see a port to the MSM8916 phones, of which there are very many to choose from
<buZz>
honestly, every nerd i show leste to is like 'wtf, this is just real linux??'
<buZz>
i think many ppl arent aware about it enough
<buZz>
maybe we can ask nokia for some old marketing material for maemo, and revive it a bit? :P
<caleb[m]>
sicelo: i got maemo up to the lockscreen iirc
<caleb[m]>
that was a long time ago though
<sicelo>
buZz: maybe :-)
<buZz>
wonder if they would be willing :P
<buZz>
or mostly, if anyone from that time is still alive/present at nokia :D
<bencoh>
buZz: I love the idea, but ... :)
<bencoh>
actually that Nokia N900 demo video (present on every n900 device by default) is kinda nice
<buZz>
nokia really had decent budget back then :)
<bencoh>
that one yeah
<bencoh>
but I doubt anyone would be impressed nowadays
<bencoh>
back then, "multiapp" was really new, iOS/android had none of it (or rather, did not allow it)
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<buZz>
and still , its almost unworkable on either
<buZz>
bencoh: the people who know why you would want a terminal , know
<buZz>
(for the ppl that dont, i just 'apt install blender' and start it, usually they're pretty wtf'd about that)
<bencoh>
nowadays, I wonder, but maybe :)
<bencoh>
haha
<bencoh>
at @job if I really wanted to impress people I'd probably connect a jtag adapter to the phone's usb port and start debugging some MCU from the phone
<buZz>
haha yeah , aczid ported a Proxmark RFID gui some time ago aswell
<buZz>
so awesome to have a portable rfid sniffer/cloner/reader just on USB on your tiny laptop
<bencoh>
:)
<sicelo>
unfortunately running blender is possible on all (or most?) mobile distros :-)
<bencoh>
yeah I think most of those things seem less of a feat than years ago
<bencoh>
(to the untrained eye)
<Wizzup>
bencoh: sicelo: I think once we get a bit more of the userspace in place (we are), then people will be
<Wizzup>
bencoh: buZz: yes, I use the d4 daily for calls
<Wizzup>
and I made a module for sphone that sets the proper audio registers manually
<bencoh>
Wizzup: as a daily driver?
<bencoh>
oh
<Wizzup>
bencoh: yes, but I still carry my n900 as well
<bencoh>
neat <3
<buZz>
Wizzup: ooo cool! can i try/have? :D
<Wizzup>
buZz: yes, but it requires just a few more changes that I discussed with uvos last weekend
<buZz>
seemingly nobody mashed ofono and asterisk together -yet-
<bencoh>
that's the kind of stuff that deserve a twitter/blog post, even just a oneliner to say that you really use leste/d4 as your main phone :)
<bencoh>
buZz: couldn't find anything either, I find it super odd though
<Wizzup>
yes, once I add some fixes
<buZz>
<3
<Wizzup>
it's just been absolutely crazy at real life work
<bencoh>
:)
<buZz>
bencoh: i feel it shouldnt be so hard, maybe even just as 'soundcard' and we do everything externally, just 'push towards asterisk' after not picking up
<bencoh>
I dunno about that, but .... yeah, it's mostly routing audio to the right place and handling signaling between the two daemons
<buZz>
i assume because their HW doesnt have modems internally ;
<buZz>
;)
<bencoh>
yeah
<buZz>
either way, 'selfhosted voicemail' is one of those mindblowing things leste can allow
<bencoh>
self-hosting your voicemail is nice, but selfhosting it on your phone is somehow unreliable, you'd still need to check the regular voicemail
<buZz>
nah
<buZz>
imho mobilephones -should- be unreliable, its in the nature of being mobile
<buZz>
this whole '24/7 always on' mentality isnt healthy one bit
<bencoh>
yeah, but that means you still need to dial into your provider's voicemail system once in a while
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<buZz>
well, to me 'unreachable' is a OK thing to report
<buZz>
if they REALLY wanted to reach me and know me, they would do IRC or email :P
<bencoh>
sure, but people see it differently usually :)
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<buZz>
hehe, thats just because they've been brainwashed by always-on commerce
<rafael2k>
we still need simple stuff, like USSD, carrier selection, RAT technologies selection, and so on
<rafael2k>
for now, stuff that we already have, like RAT tech selection is outdated (does not have LTE)
<rafael2k>
no USSD
<rafael2k>
not talking about ViLTE, VoLTE knobs (enable / disable)
<Wizzup>
most people probably just care about being able to make a call
<Wizzup>
but yes, ussd is something for sure
<Wizzup>
carrier selection too
<rafael2k>
that being said, leste is already in a pretty good state, at least in the PP, that is what I have
<rafael2k>
btw, did you take a look in the ringtone stuff?
<rafael2k>
: )
<sicelo>
droid 4 doesn't support ussd for some weird reason, even using the qcom interface via ModemManager
<sicelo>
tbh, even under android, ussd is quite unusable on droid4
<Wizzup>
rafael2k: did you link me a git repo that builds?
<sicelo>
rafael2k: nice work re:pp :-)
<buZz>
i got a idea, i could put droid4 on my 3Dprinters bed while 'charging at night' to monitor temperatures externally , and cut power to the charger if >X celcius
<uvos__>
sicelo: ussd certenly works on my d4 on android
<uvos__>
at least basic balance check
<uvos__>
i know you mentioned it not working on android either at some point
<uvos__>
no idea whats up there, maybe a bug triggerd by the carrier being different somehow
<buZz>
sicelo: i think i saw USSD stuff on the wiki for d4?
<sicelo>
uvos__: do a number of ussd requests one after the other
<uvos__>
( just did 4)
<buZz>
i barely ever use it, only on prepaid cards to check balance
<buZz>
what are you using it for?
<uvos__>
sicelo: seams to work ok
<uvos__>
even rapid fireing them
<sicelo>
or, do the ones that work in request-response
<uvos__>
dont know if my carrier has one
<sicelo>
buZz: here i need it, for example, to buy data packages
<uvos__>
ill have to check later
<uvos__>
those really never where a thing in us
<buZz>
ah ok, my provider has a website for those things
<uvos__>
so im not terribly suprized a verizon only phone has issues with it
<buZz>
*101# USSD seems to work on almost all providers here
<sicelo>
unless my droid 4 has flaky modem. this behavior has been consistent since day 1 for me
<uvos__>
im not doubting what you see
<uvos__>
i just cant repoduce any problem
<sicelo>
buZz: here providers tend to stay away from those kinds of websites ... because data is expensive, the youth exploit them
<buZz>
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
<buZz>
you need to pay to activate it
<uvos__>
primary method here is also a website
<uvos__>
i ques in western europe you can assume everyone has acess to cheap internet anyhow
<sicelo>
HTTP Injection ... which i still can't fully understand how it works (for educational purposes)
<dsc_>
hax
<uvos__>
i mean if your website is vunerable to that you deserve it
<sicelo>
yeah, so the easiest solution is - don't have such websites :-)
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<sicelo>
tbh i really want to know how that really works. i know it works for sure, as i've tested it on the android clients
<sicelo>
i wonder if your USSD's are somewhat reliable because perhaps they're in some known/standard range.
<sicelo>
i just recalled that a verizon LG G4 that i once had had a problem with our *686*5# code for balance check. the moment you dial the 8, it clears the whole USSD
<dsc_>
I could swear our devuan was on Qt 5.12, instead it is 5.11. must be dreaming
<Wizzup>
yeah it is 5.11 atm
<uvos__>
5.18 seams to do better on the pm front on d4
<uvos__>
its been consitanly ideling at 75-85mW all day
<rafael2k>
our current kernel has a đriver which does work with MegaPixels
<rafael2k>
but it is very incomplete
<Wizzup>
right
<rafael2k>
now we'll have a proper ov5640 driver
<MartijnBraam[m]>
why is there another kernel tree for the pp?
<rafael2k>
I hope this question is not for me
<rafael2k>
:P
<MartijnBraam[m]>
it is
<Wizzup>
I don't think it is 'another kernel tree'
<Wizzup>
it's mobian
<rafael2k>
yeap, it is just Mobian tree with some patches from us
<MartijnBraam[m]>
right, I thought the mobian and maemo stuff would be mostly shared :P
<rafael2k>
I mean, Mobian patchset + ours
<Wizzup>
I haven't ever seen anyone from mobian in here :)
<rafael2k>
btw, MegaPixels is a miracle, but it is hard to compile gtk4 in Maemo Leste
<rafael2k>
: )
<MartijnBraam[m]>
why is it harder in maemo?
<Wizzup>
I don't think gtk4 is in buster
<rafael2k>
because we don't have it
<MartijnBraam[m]>
ah right
<MartijnBraam[m]>
I originally tried to keep it on gtk3, but gtk3 combined with the opengl version on the pinephone was not possible :(
<rafael2k>
I remember... I had the last gtk3 working here
<rafael2k>
: )
<rafael2k>
but libcamera + gstreamer will be fit better ol' maemo stack I think
<MartijnBraam[m]>
meh
<MartijnBraam[m]>
it's been years and libcamera still doesn't have a camera app
<rafael2k>
I think qcam does the job, nỏ
<rafael2k>
but indeed, "gstlibcamera" source is my target
<rafael2k>
in order to integrate to Maemo stack
<MartijnBraam[m]>
last time I tried qcam on an a64 it barely reached 1fps preview
<rafael2k>
I still need to wait around 6 hours for the kernel compilation to finish
<rafael2k>
then I can tell you the fps I can grab from gstlibcamera src
<Wizzup>
considered cross compiling?
<MartijnBraam[m]>
huh 6 hours?
<rafael2k>
kernel compiling is between 6 to 7 hours in my pp
<rafael2k>
with conservative scheduler
<uvos>
why would you use convervative? why would you compile the kenrel on device!?
<rafael2k>
*powersave, sorry
<uvos>
wtf
<uvos>
powersave?
<uvos>
you do know this locks the clock to the lowest value at all times right?
<rafael2k>
yes
<rafael2k>
sure
<uvos>
ok aperantly compiling the kernel slow is your thing then :P
<rafael2k>
cause I don't like it to turn off when compiling the kernel
<rafael2k>
:P
<xmn>
MartijnBraam[m] amazing work overall with megipixel, but especially the latest update ... look so much sharper. Cheers
<uvos>
why would it shut off?
<rafael2k>
MegaPixel is a miracle - I always say it
<rafael2k>
uvos: current consumption > change current
<uvos>
ok
<MartijnBraam[m]>
pinephone can't sustain charging at full load
<rafael2k>
I use a mobian chroot on Maemo just to have MegaPixels
<MartijnBraam[m]>
but yeah, cross compiling is the way
<MartijnBraam[m]>
or at least any other ARM64 host
<rafael2k>
scheduler at powersave does the job for me for compiling kernel (or compiling firefox and giant stuff)
<rafael2k>
I have no rush tbh... this is my hobby
<rafael2k>
I compiled X in a Jornada 710 back in the times
<MartijnBraam[m]>
this reminds me of the person doing the whole gentoo thing from source on the pinephone :P
<rafael2k>
noooo rush
<rafael2k>
Pinephone is much faster than my desktop Pentium II 233 MHz with 32MB of ram back in 1999... and I still use to compile kernel 2.2 on it without problem
<rafael2k>
:P
<xmn>
oh wow
<Wizzup>
I did gentoo on the n900 fwiw
<rafael2k>
lemme sleep, when I wake up kernel compilation will be over - that is fast
<Wizzup>
years back
<rafael2k>
: ))
<Wizzup>
in any case I am so happy that I can crosscompile
<Wizzup>
won't look back
<Wizzup>
if you do a lot of pine64 kernel testing stuff we can also give you jenkins access for the package and you can test with beowulf-experimental and just use the build machines I set up
<MartijnBraam[m]>
is maemo leste supporting the ppp?
<Wizzup>
I think we might, but I don't have one
<Wizzup>
rafael2k: ^
<MartijnBraam[m]>
oh what..
<uvos>
presumably linux 2.2 was mutch mutch smaller than linux 5.x
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<Wizzup>
MartijnBraam[m]: yeah :/
<Wizzup>
MartijnBraam[m]: my pp keyboard basically broke after using it for a few mins, but others report it works
<MartijnBraam[m]>
seems like pine64 device allocations are roughly proportional by how much of your tweets TL sees
<MartijnBraam[m]>
pp keyboard pogopin contacts are kinda shitty
<Wizzup>
yeah we don't do too much pr
<norayr>
Wizzup: yeah, i think i still don't have the 'build' button.
<MartijnBraam[m]>
I find the pixelfed stuff too instagrammy
<dsc_>
true
<MartijnBraam[m]>
huh, object-fit: cover; is neat
<dsc_>
cannot take credit, most likely copied it from some other website
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<norayr>
MartijnBraam[m]: true. that is why i set up 'socialhome' for my photo blog on fediverse. and as a photography instance.
<norayr>
but nobody likes it. :/ (:
<norayr>
MartijnBraam[m]: i was able to build megapixels-legacy on maemo. i used it.
<norayr>
We talked here and i said i liked that i can apply my custom imagemagick postprocessing (i have my LUTs) and you've said you maybe will remove
<norayr>
that possibility.
<MartijnBraam[m]>
yep, ended up implementing a setting instead so there can be multiple concurrent post processing implementations :)
<norayr>
Wizzup: i got the build button on msid! Thank you!
<norayr>
will i be able still to apply HALD CLUT?
<norayr>
just i have nothing that runs megapixels now to test.
<norayr>
i have dual boot of sailfish and maemo on pp.
<sicelo>
rafael2k: RE:ussd - yes it's super stable in my experience too in every single phone i've used, except the droid 4 :-)
<missMyN900>
oh uvos just quit that is unfortunate
<missMyN900>
anyway I was thinking a bit more yesterday about phone choices
<missMyN900>
and I actually had already looked at some pmOS devices before reading the log just now
<missMyN900>
but basically the compatibility is very bad for pretty much anything except Pinephone and OnePlus 6 (and some old Xiaomis that are impossible to find in the US)
<missMyN900>
I won't even consider anything that does not have working audio (just music/video that is, I am not even talking about calls)
<missMyN900>
and at the end of the day running Plasma Mobile does not excite me very much either
<missMyN900>
power management is a big deal for me
<MartijnBraam[m]>
audio on mobile platforms is quite annoying to get working :(
<missMyN900>
should it not be the same for each SoC platform?
<missMyN900>
I mean like for i.MX6/8 and a given Allwinner/sunxi generation?
<missMyN900>
I imagine it would be similar for Qualcomm
<missMyN900>
I know it is more difficult than on the PC with HDA/Azalia but I have read that even there there are quirks
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<missMyN900>
actually, I am now thinking about getting a used Android and using it without Play Services etc and with F-Droid. Also considering getting a used Xperia and trying Sailfish (I can always use Lineage if it does not work out)
<missMyN900>
because I have realized that probably 1 GB RAM and a dual Cortex A9 would not be enough for my use
<xmn>
if it fits you sailfish is awesome
<missMyN900>
if I could use it as my phone that would be one thing but if I can't use it at that, web browsing should at least be a good experience
<missMyN900>
xmn: I used to own a Jolla
<xmn>
throw some containers and waydroid you might have everything you need
<missMyN900>
so I am familiar with it, albeit a much older version
<missMyN900>
I actually got it on launch'
<missMyN900>
I should still have the t-shirt somewhere ;)
<xmn>
nice, then you know the daily living better then me
<missMyN900>
but yeah, I am thinking it could be good to get a phone that could be replace my iPhone if/when it dies
<xmn>
I used it on multiboot and sd, most for updating my pebble watch.
<missMyN900>
so that means that it works with T-Mobile US, including VoLTE
<xmn>
but maybe we went over this before :)
<missMyN900>
that was a long time ago though
<missMyN900>
I sold my Jolla in 2015H2 IIRC
<missMyN900>
and got a BB Classic
<xmn>
last I tried it could txt, call. but audio was messed up and battery drain fast. But was buttery on the PP. I haven't tried it since they added encrypted dir, I have to edit something I haven't had time for.
<missMyN900>
I imagine it is better on an Xperia though
<missMyN900>
should be similar to the Jolla with supported models
<missMyN900>
as the Jolla was also running SFOS on libhybris on a Qualcomm SoC (Snapdragon 400 dual core Krait)
<missMyN900>
if you recall, they were planning to run it natively on a Novathor U-something
<missMyN900>
but ST-Ericson got out of the mobile SoC market
<xmn>
bb, ubuntu phone, webOS, maemo could have ruled the world if they would have only worked together to build cross platform apps with qt, webbase and a few other too.
<missMyN900>
I don't know honestly
<missMyN900>
biggest problem is stuff like banking apps
<xmn>
xperiea seem the way to go for less problems
<Wizzup>
I don't think it's that easy
<missMyN900>
working together is not going to solve that
<missMyN900>
those companies are lazy
<missMyN900>
they only want to support the duopoly
<xmn>
what's that Wizzup?
<missMyN900>
I read that even in NL you basically are forced to have a Google Android device running an OEM ROM or iPhone
<missMyN900>
while the EU is talking about digital self-suffiency and even funding ML...
<missMyN900>
so why are/were they at least not supporting European OSes?
<xmn>
depends how you use banking apps. You might be able to do it in the browser.
<missMyN900>
true but for many that is not acceptable
<missMyN900>
tbh I have a banking app installed but never use it
<xmn>
agree
<missMyN900>
so I don't even know (and of course it differs with each bank) if there are 'special' things that can only be done in the app
<xmn>
also there are feature bank apps use that won't work on the website. Like they need your imei number to allow for some transactions
<xmn>
yeah, depositing check with a photograph for example
<missMyN900>
yes, that is what I mean
<missMyN900>
basically without the intervention of regulatory agencies/watchdogs I think that the alternative OSes were doomed to fail
<missMyN900>
and if governments themselves do not set an example what do you honestly expect from for-profit corporations?
<Wizzup>
xmn: collaboration is not easy if everything uses different apis and widget sets
<missMyN900>
yes, that is true BB10 used very different widgets from SFOS
<Wizzup>
I think maemo at least at the time was the most compatible with regular linux
<missMyN900>
both had their own proprietary widgets
<xmn>
thats true Wizzup
<missMyN900>
it is not just app development but these companies will also need to provide support for each OS
<xmn>
but I remember them all using QT for example.
<Wizzup>
maemo is mostly gtk
<missMyN900>
they are not very enthusiastic about increasing the support burden
<xmn>
so qt and web apps could have been the common grounds
<Wizzup>
I don't think phosh is qt
<xmn>
no not phosh
<xmn>
only kde
<xmn>
well not only, but for sure
<xmn>
Now days people expect a certain level of useable apps. If you can provide that then you can gain traction. The problem is the facebook, youtube, spoitfy have no incentive to help or even try.
<missMyN900>
I don't think those are the main issue
<missMyN900>
there are good third party clients for those
<xmn>
The only real saving grace is webapps, which can some what bridge that gap. and give 3prty OS a slight chance to catch on.
<missMyN900>
it is really the banking and government etc stuff that is the issue, I think
<missMyN900>
what I really hate is that they want to use a smartphone as a root of trust
<xmn>
wel the gov stuff can be lobbied by voters at least. Corps ... nope
<missMyN900>
theoretically ;)
<xmn>
and they can easily shut down api for those 3rd party apps like twitter did.
<Wizzup>
I don't think web apps are particularly foss friendly
<missMyN900>
I have actually been thinking about that a lot recently
<missMyN900>
I am ambivalent about web apps
<missMyN900>
on one hand I don't think all the bloat, untrusted JS (especially with the transient execution vulnerabilities nowadays) and the emerging Chromium monopoly
<missMyN900>
*like
<missMyN900>
on the other hand it is the only option for alternative OSes (both desktop and mobile)
<missMyN900>
and that is not even considering all the tracking
<missMyN900>
xmn: well, yes, but web apps don't work when they want to use the device as the root of trust, like your example using the IMEI
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<xmn>
yeah, for sure not saying web apps are perfect. Just an easy way for company to support alt OS.
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<missMyN900>
true, I am just saying, the least they could do is not force you to have a certain phone for use as a hardware token
<xmn>
Wizzup not sure how we can fix the foss friendliness other than something like a matrix, where it's a bridging platforms. But I see it as the only way to even begin to attract alt curious main stream users.
<xmn>
missMyN900 haha, one could wish. But ppl and corps love control
<xmn>
they will do everything to get more, unless you vote with your wallet or votes.
<xmn>
I'm sure you folks have way more experience then me. But I started with a sharp zuarus 5500, which was qt. And through out all this time, I saw opportunities wasted, because of lack of building a universal apps store, before store were even a thing :).
<xmn>
This is way i think webapp, which there aer many very successful one, can be commercially successful and still foss or open source at least.
<xmn>
are*
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<MartijnBraam[m]>
foss doesn't need webapps, it needs apis
<xmn>
yeah, true
<xmn>
this is the next stage I think
<xmn>
to me a web app is almost the same a apis, in the sense of building in technology into them.
<xmn>
I have an idea for a app that I want to build. And it would be web first them maybe build native apps eventually if needed. But would be using lots of apis for many services or existing saas platforms, to make it happen.
<xmn>
But would lean on folks like you MartijnBraam[m] who are making things to know best practices and paths to try.