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<missMyN900> updated the pmOS (Plasma) on my PP eMMC to 22.06 recently
<missMyN900> very mixed experience
<missMyN900> UI is significantly smoother
<missMyN900> getting close to Hildon/ML
<missMyN900> Firefox is working very nicely with the mobile config that pmOS has
<missMyN900> Angelfish is still a buggy mess (crashes often)
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<missMyN900> I browsed the web on it for a couple hours without issues (FF, of course)
<missMyN900> volume buttons still work
<missMyN900> however, then it suddenly became very buggy
<missMyN900> I have experienced two complete freezes in a couple hours
<missMyN900> and now I keep getting a CLI login screen just after boot and after briefly interacting with the UI (specifically the control panel)
<missMyN900> only option is to force shutdown the device
<missMyN900> camera works with Megapixels (which of course is not yet possible on ML)
<missMyN900> it takes an awful long time to save the image though (even JPEG)
<missMyN900> basically pmOS 22.06 is very unstable. Seems to be graphics related (probably Wayland or maybe KWin)
<missMyN900> still it is nice to see the progress that has been made in some areas. I am sure that the stability will improved upon again in the service packs.
<missMyN900> oh and by the way (screen-on) battery life did not really seem better than ML
<missMyN900> so ML is not really lagging behind there
<missMyN900> suspend is apparently supported though as there is a delay option in settings (default is 5 min)
<missMyN900> while playing around with pmOS 22.06 I did discover two things that are relevant for Leste
<missMyN900> I installed two music players that I was planning to test to see if pmOS would be suitable for use a mobile audio player
<missMyN900> vvave and elisa (Elisa is a convergent Qt5 app)
<missMyN900> but then I realized since Elisa is a quite well-known desktop KDE app, it must be in the Debian repos too
<missMyN900> and since a music player does not strictly need keyboard input, there is therefore no reason it could not be used on ML!
<missMyN900> (even on PP/DB)
<missMyN900> so it looks like I may have finally found the perfect music player for ML/my PP
<missMyN900> I will be inserting my ML microSD back into the PP and test it
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<missMyN900> I also installed Pure Maps (from SFOS) on pmOS and discovered that it installs something called 'OSM Scout Server' too
<missMyN900> it is also mentioned on the pmOS wiki
<missMyN900> this is its homepage: https://rinigus.github.io/osmscout-server/en/
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<missMyN900> I think you may find it useful norayr
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<missMyN900> looks like elisa is only in the chimaera repos...
<missMyN900> *sigh*
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<missMyN900> just got the cloudfare "we are checking your browser" screen while trying to visit a website that I frequently visit (on other devices)
<missMyN900> get stuck in an endless cycle of captcha...
<missMyN900> qtwebbrowser is apparently suspicious. They must think that it is some sort of bot since it uses a Chromium-based engine but is not Chrome
<missMyN900> I suspect we will have to mod the user agent to make it appear as Chrome
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<uvos> missMyN900: doubtfull
<missMyN900> tried to install elisa from flatpak so I can at least test it on the PP but flatpak does not seem to be working
<uvos> missMyN900: Blink based browsers are very common
<uvos> more likely the problem is that its a really old version
<uvos> (yes also the web engine is out of date in this devuan)
<uvos> that goes for firefox too
<uvos> all browsers on debian 10 are out of support
<missMyN900> ML really needs chimaera to be honest
<missMyN900> Debian 10 is just too old
<missMyN900> it is annoying to find out that so many things that are available on my desktop are not on ML
<missMyN900> since flatpak is not working I cannot install netsurf from there to test either
<missMyN900> at least I tested it a while ago on pmOS edge on the PP
<uvos> unfortionatly ml uses several technologys that are ghone in chimaera
<missMyN900> really?
<uvos> that are mearly depricated in debian 10
<uvos> yes
<uvos> its very dependand on gconf for almost everything
<uvos> for instance
<uvos> unfortionatly the (bad) way it uses it makes it difficult to use dconf/gesettings instead
<missMyN900> uvos: but can't those just be moved to the Leste repos?
<uvos> its not that simple
<missMyN900> because Leste already uses its own kernel and Mesa, right?
<uvos> so gconf also requires integration with debhelper
<uvos> you cant really use a different debhelper
<uvos> there are other issues too
<missMyN900> sounds like a mess
<missMyN900> but I thought the transition was planned for later this year?
<missMyN900> is that even possible then?
<uvos> its not impossible
<missMyN900> I guess Debian 5 -> 10 is already a huge upgrade...
<missMyN900> I remember Fremantle already being outdated in 2012-13 when I was using it
<uvos> fremantle was released outdated
<uvos> really
<uvos> anyhow its not impossible to move leste to 11
<uvos> its just quite a bit of work left to do
<missMyN900> so is all the gconf stuff going to be replaced?
<missMyN900> or will it be ported to 11+?
<uvos> well in my "house" (ie the packages i mantain)
<uvos> i replaced gconf
<missMyN900> at least ML is a lot more stable than pmOS is currently
<missMyN900> it is probably because it uses X11 and matchbox
<uvos> the main problem with this is how fremantle/leste breaks dbus/gconf user / system seperation
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<missMyN900> I have never used Wayland on the desktop but from what I have heard the experience is still not great
<uvos> there are deep assumptions that there is only one user
<uvos> and that this one user has one session
<missMyN900> I don't know how that is possible when it seemed work fine on my Jolla in 2014
<uvos> and this session is shared with root
<missMyN900> seems like not much progress has been made since then almost...
<uvos> total mess
<missMyN900> shared with root?
<missMyN900> so the original Nokia software engineering was actually not that great?
<uvos> yes so root and user share a dbus session bus and gconf via terrible hacks in af-serices
<missMyN900> or were they just working with what was available at the time
<uvos> missMyN900: no it was really really not
<uvos> (imo)
<uvos> they where on a tight dedline
<uvos> and did whatever to make it work
<missMyN900> it is really really unfortunate how everything turned out
<uvos> incl breaking all linux desktop standards
<uvos> and making the whole thing hardcoded to fit the n900
<missMyN900> if they had spent the resources on fixing Fremantle instead of creating Harmattan and MeeGo
<uvos> and the n900 only
<uvos> this is something we allready mostly cleaned up
<missMyN900> only to abandon all that
<missMyN900> some people don't like dbus in general but I am not really knowledgeable enough at all to comment on that
<missMyN900> it seems to me that it does fulfill some useful purpose at least
<missMyN900> same can be said about pulseaudio to some degree I suppose
<uvos> dbus is kinda the worst possible ipc mechanisum
<missMyN900> with systemd, well...
<uvos> except for all the others
<uvos> are worse :P
<missMyN900> are Windows and macOS ones worse?
<missMyN900> I don't think the *BSDs have anything at all
<uvos> well dbus
<missMyN900> except dbus itself but it is optional
<missMyN900> yes
<uvos> its optional on linux too
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<missMyN900> but I think many people view it like running pulseaudio on *BSD
<missMyN900> that is to say, not very positively
<uvos> i cant comment on windows of macos
<uvos> but dbus is the best ipc mechanisum we have
<uvos> its also not that great
<uvos> but really its not that terrible either
<missMyN900> I remember there was also something called kdbus (kernel dbus) and BUS1
<uvos> this is also dbus
<missMyN900> I don't know if that fullfills the same purpose or is an extension of the idea
<uvos> its dbus, now with less context switches
<missMyN900> so it was just moved into the kernel for higher performance?
<uvos> well it dident happen
<uvos> but yes thats the idea
<missMyN900> oh right
<missMyN900> yes, I recall BUS1 failing
<missMyN900> anyway, I am still planning to mod qtwebbrowser to add some features
<missMyN900> I just haven't gotten around to it
<missMyN900> have been busy with other stuff
<missMyN900> computer-related and not computer-related ;)
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