<missMyN900>
uvos__: why is Droid 4 support so difficult to maintain? Are there frequent regressions in the upstream kernel?
<missMyN900>
it certainly looks like the days of the OMAP phones (as actual phones) are finally numbered...
<missMyN900>
Pinephone will become more important for Leste then, despite its limitations
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<missMyN900>
OMAP devices will only be good for nostalgia and as cheap dev devices but perhaps eventually the support burden may no longer be worth it?
<missMyN900>
theoretically you could use them with an LTE hotspot and VoIP but that is not very practical
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<missMyN900>
I guess for norayr's WiFi-only friends they will be good
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<uvos__>
there are frequent regessions/issues
<uvos__>
lots of stuff that dosent allways work right
<uvos__>
even the mapphones though 99% upstreamed in mainline, require various out of tree patches you have to maintain
<uvos__>
this isent specific to the d4, in fact its the least fussy device we support, since its support almost fully lives in upstream kernel.org repos and tmlind mostly maintains it for us.
<uvos__>
point is that these random arm devices are poorly supported and where there is support its poorly tested and where its tested no one cared about pm etc because it was tested on sbcs
<uvos__>
to give you a taste: the pp has constant lima problems and a absouly massive out of tree patch set you have to maintain, the n900 works with a mostly upstream kernel but it ends up failing to boot seemingly every other kernel release
<uvos__>
th only one that seams to quietly just work is bionic :P
<uvos__>
wrt 2g/3g shutdowns yeah its a big problem
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<uvos__>
but we dont really have a alternative atm
<uvos__>
at least where live i looks like 2g will stick around until 2030ish
<uvos__>
there is also the possibility (dont hold you breath) of getting the mapphones LTE modem going
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<sicelo>
wrong @n900 failing to boot
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<norayr>
heh, i think my pinephone started to sleep under leste.
<norayr>
or i just started noticing it.
<norayr>
when i don't touch it, and then touch it, pidgin starts to reconnect.
<norayr>
this are mnt reform specs: NXP/Freescale i.MX8MQ with 4x ARM Cortex-A53 cores (1.5 GHz), 1x Cortex-M4F core
<norayr>
interesting, what you people know about it.
<norayr>
regarding linux support.
<norayr>
and i think they announced they work on a phone.
<norayr>
or maybe i was far from the access point for some time.
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<norayr>
even the keyboard works well. if i tap on a field which already has something, it lets me edit it.
<norayr>
need to build/package amazfish. it'll allow many watches to work. the default daemon conf is for systemd there, need to convert to sysv.
<norayr>
if bt will be recognized on device of course.
<Wizzup>
yes, that's the him gtk2 integration
<norayr>
yeah that is great.
<Wizzup>
we'll add it for gtk3 soon
<Wizzup>
I am pretty sure the him port of it is trivial
<Wizzup>
at least, the im module itself
<Wizzup>
maybe there are other patches that I don't know of
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<missMyN900>
<uvos__> there is also the possibility (dont hold you breath) of getting the mapphones LTE modem going : problem is I think the mapphones LTE modem is useless in Europe or even on another US network
<norayr>
when i was doing keyboards i didn'g add dvorak's keybpard so i suffer every daywhen i was doing keyboards i didn'g add dvorak's keybpard so i suffer every day
<missMyN900>
norayr: I am a bit familiar with the MNT Reform
<norayr>
omgomg
<missMyN900>
however, there is still one issue with it
<missMyN900>
I don't remember exactly
<missMyN900>
something battery related
<missMyN900>
that is a hassle
<missMyN900>
so I would not buy it until you have confirmed that has been fixed
<missMyN900>
also there is the issue of the i.MX8 being a bit dated
<missMyN900>
I mean, even an Allwinner H6 goes to 1.8 GHz at least
<missMyN900>
RK3566 has newer Cortex A55s
<missMyN900>
big cores would be nice for a laptop
<missMyN900>
I think higher clocked A55s would be acceptable for me personally
<missMyN900>
but 1.5 GHz A53 meh
<missMyN900>
for example, the new ODROID M1 has 2 GHz A55s (RK3568)
<missMyN900>
now *that* would be nice in an affordable laptop
<uvos>
its fairly unlikely that motorola really desinged a lte frontend that works on only one band
<missMyN900>
but how do you get it to work on other bands/
<uvos>
the modem runs android with an exploitable bootloader
<missMyN900>
the modem runs Android???
<uvos>
yes
<uvos>
android 2.1
<uvos>
its a omap2
<uvos>
with 128mb ram
<missMyN900>
the Motorola modem?
<uvos>
yes
<missMyN900>
so it is almost like the Pinephone then
<missMyN900>
PP has an A7 running Linux
<missMyN900>
in the Quectel EG-25
<uvos>
its way more over engeneered than the pinephone
<uvos>
the modem has a gpu xD
<missMyN900>
nooo....
<missMyN900>
the LTE modem will definitely kill battery life though...
<missMyN900>
uvos: how is it possible that DB has so little issues?
<missMyN900>
isn't it very similar to the D4?
<uvos>
yes
<uvos>
but for some reason it allways works slightly better than the d4
<missMyN900>
also, I would hope that PP lima issues improve as it becomes more mature??
<uvos>
problem is no one works on x
<missMyN900>
oh...
<missMyN900>
:(
<uvos>
so maybe but not really
<missMyN900>
what is the plan for the GTK2 parts of Hildon btw?
<missMyN900>
GTK3 or Qt5/6 eventually?
<uvos>
gtk2 forever probubly
<missMyN900>
and that means X11 forever...
<uvos>
switching to wayland means rewrite
<uvos>
so yeah then you can go gtk3 at the same time
<uvos>
or qt whatever
<missMyN900>
I guess some day someone will have to make a Hildon clone UI
<missMyN900>
in new technologies
<missMyN900>
if we want the Hildon experience to live on
<missMyN900>
which I think is a good idea
<missMyN900>
actually, I had lost faith in mobile phones
<missMyN900>
until I got my PP but now that I know of the issues
<missMyN900>
I am still pessimistic
<missMyN900>
but I still believe in tablets
<missMyN900>
(and using some phones as tablets ;) )
<missMyN900>
and I think Hildon is good for tablets
<Wizzup>
I downloaded a pinetab image from 2020 from archive.org to test if the display works
<Wizzup>
uvos: why gtk2 forever? it can be gtk3
<missMyN900>
is there no PT image anymore?
<uvos>
Wizzup: im pessimistic
<Wizzup>
missMyN900: there is, but the display doesn't work there
<Wizzup>
uvos: *shrug* yeah maybe
<missMyN900>
:(
<uvos>
for what its worth
<missMyN900>
Wizzup: have you started working on suspend on the PP by chance?
<uvos>
there was a iniative in fremantle that did port some stuff to gtk3 allready
<missMyN900>
but what is the point when there is already GTK4
<uvos>
but switching to wayland requires throwing away him, hildon-desktop at least
<missMyN900>
and GTK folks don't seem to care for anything but GNOME
<Wizzup>
it should work on ML, and it does from the experience of others, just not for me
<Wizzup>
bionic?
<missMyN900>
yes
<Wizzup>
*shrug* you can do that too :)
<missMyN900>
especially if uvos says they don't cause much trouble
<Wizzup>
I like a hardware keyboard :)
<missMyN900>
me too
<Wizzup>
bionic lacks that
<missMyN900>
but I would rather get something that is in good condition
<missMyN900>
and not too expensive
<Wizzup>
I think the d4 is in the same condition as the bionic
<Wizzup>
maybe bionic has /slightly/ better pm
<missMyN900>
not as the new DBs
<Wizzup>
ok then
<Wizzup>
up to you
<missMyN900>
but I am still on the fence
<missMyN900>
PP support will have to be improved eventually
<missMyN900>
as it is the future
<missMyN900>
and the more I use mine, the more I test it
<missMyN900>
PP with 3 GB RAM is also more usable as a tablet replacement
<missMyN900>
won't be using the DB as a phone anyway since I am not on Verizon
<missMyN900>
and Verizon does not register DBs anymore for new customers anyway if I wanted to switch
<missMyN900>
and 2G/3G is dead in the US
<missMyN900>
modern web with 1 GB RAM is not great...
<missMyN900>
pm is really an issue though. The PP drains within hours.
<missMyN900>
only way to avoid it is to turn it off completely
<missMyN900>
that is why suspend matters to me
<missMyN900>
I wouldn't mind trying something myself but to get it out of suspend again, I would have to connect it to the power button somehow
<Wizzup>
right, if you're in the us then the d4 is less of an option
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<uvos>
the bionic is not locked to verizon
<uvos>
so if tmobile allows new 2g/3g gsm phones
<uvos>
or att
<uvos>
i would work
<uvos>
*it
<uvos>
i use the modern web on the d4 quite a bit with ff
<uvos>
the ram is never an issue
<uvos>
the cpu speed however is
<missMyN900>
t-mobile has shut down their 3G
<missMyN900>
or at least they are very close to it
<missMyN900>
actually received a message from them on an Android phone that was incorrectly configured
<uvos>
well if they continue with plain gsm
<uvos>
it would still work
<uvos>
for calls at least
<missMyN900>
isn't it ironic that you would be going back in time essentially?
<missMyN900>
uvos: but basically if Xorg is not a priority for lima then PP/PT support on ML will never be as good as mapphones?
<missMyN900>
obvious solution would be the PPP... However, I doubt Panfrost cares much about Xorg
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<Wizzup>
I think panfrost will work on X
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<norayr>
missMyN900, no but seriously. not people like me, but even today, i believe most people use their so called 'messengers' to communicate with each other, because they have wifi at home and at work and at restaurants and everywhere.
<norayr>
the carriers are gradually becoming what hey should be - internet service providers.
<uvos>
missMyN900: they DO care about x, at least they where helpfull when Wizzup and fmg came to mesa with issues needing resolution
<uvos>
but xorg just dosent get as mutch testing
<uvos>
since wayland took over fairly fast on arm
<uvos>
as for being better than maphones wrt 3d
<uvos>
im sure the pp will overtake the mapphones at some point
<uvos>
the mapphones are burdoned with the partally closed source driver for sgx
<uvos>
sgx works a bit better right now, but i would say this is a transient state of affairs
<Wizzup>
well the pp screen res is much higher right
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<missMyN900>
Wizzup, uvos: I think I may have found a solution for the PP pm issues!