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<norayr>
> sicelo wrote:
<norayr>
for some reason for me pmos/phosh on pp worked much slower than manjaro or mobian. sailfish and leste work very fast though.
<norayr>
> Or, if you just want something that already works, pmOS with phosh or plasma mobile is really great too.
<sicelo>
Leste will definitely be faster than everything else out there. :-)
<norayr>
(i was replying to old conversation, somebody suggested to use pmos on pp to someone)
<uvos>
really i hear people complaining the ui is slow on pp all the time
<uvos>
and phosh was fine on xt1602 speed wise, is it really slow on pp?
<uvos>
(the ui == hildon)
<uvos>
i gues the Adreno 306 is quite a bit faster than the mali in the pp, so maybe the phosh observations are resonable
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<humpelstilzchen[>
phosh is slow, maemo not so
<Wizzup>
we'll get it to be faster on lima too with time
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<bencoh>
hi everyone - question regarding telegram, which client do you use?
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<bencoh>
I tried to register pidgin (using telegram-purple) and telegram-cli but they both fail (telegram-cli reports an error that its no longer supported)
<bencoh>
(currently building tdlib/td to try purple-tdlib)
<bencoh>
(iirc some used telegram on leste - right?)
<uvos>
bencoh: telegram-desktop works fine i use it often
<Wizzup>
missMyN900: in case you don't read the log, I tried to answer some of your questions from yesterday
<missMyN900>
Wizzup: no problem, I was already reading it :)
<missMyN900>
uvos: pmOS+Plasma is definitely not a good experience, at least the image from a few months ago
<norayr>
sicelo: i don't like phosh ui a lot (again answering an old 'thread').
<norayr>
firstly it is slow, secondly, it is not as cool as hildon, and not as useful:
<norayr>
on hildon, you can see minimized windows, and updates in those - that's
<norayr>
on phosh, and those running apps are represented by windows screenshots.
<norayr>
for instance, you need to scroll through the horizontal line of running apps
<norayr>
feelings - i'd like to see that there is no, or there is update in the window,
<norayr>
very important to me. feel the real multitasking. and it's not only about
<norayr>
without making it fullscreen and switching to it. that might be some change
<norayr>
in the terminal window, for instance.
<missMyN900>
Maemo is a lot smoother but there are some bugs (although Plasma has those too)
<norayr>
missMyN900: maemo leste works much much much better on droid4 than on pp.
<uvos>
honestly i wish hildon used screenshots too
<norayr>
you cannot imagine how smooth is it, and how fast it feels on droid4.
<norayr>
uvos, why?
<norayr>
screenshots are dumb (me in opiniated mode)
<missMyN900>
norayr: I can imagine. I had an N900 years ago
<uvos>
the overhead this creates (compositing) is not worth it
<uvos>
its a huge ram and memory bandwith drain
<uvos>
for something thats only marginally usefull
<missMyN900>
uvos: I always thought it was really cool, even on the N900
<uvos>
sure its cool
<norayr>
well if it worked on n900, it wasn't draining memory that much.
<norayr>
aaaand, phosh on anything takes more memory than hildon on debian.
<norayr>
though it does screenshots. so there are other things to optimize.
<missMyN900>
norayr: phosh is basically mobile GNOME 3 so that is not a surprise...
<uvos>
but how often are you gonting to be stearing at the tiny squares of windows
<norayr>
it's very useful to see all the windows together without scrolling.
<uvos>
sure
<missMyN900>
I know, I know, but seeing mplayer continue to play is pure gold
<norayr>
and choose the one you need. even if you go back because there are, or there are no updates in some other.
<norayr>
btw, uvos norayr is inky, and inky is norayr.
<uvos>
missMyN900: it looks cool sure, but how usefull is it really to watch mplayer in tasknav?
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<norayr>
the opposite feels very dead. android doesn't appeal to me because of it too. phosh too. sailfish and maemo are attractive because of it.
<missMyN900>
I suppose I need to try Sailfish OS on the PP since I used to have a Jolla, too
<uvos>
this feature costs 20mb ram @ 10 windows, essantly breaking the n900s back at 20 some windows
<missMyN900>
20 MB/window?
<norayr>
>phosh is basically mobile GNOME 3
<norayr>
i think i prefer mobile gnome 3 to phosh. (:
<missMyN900>
or 2?
<uvos>
2mb
<uvos>
1 screen ish sized buffer
<missMyN900>
not a problem on the PP then :)
<norayr>
2mb per window
<missMyN900>
especially not my 3 GB edition
<uvos>
well the memory bandwith is the real problem
<uvos>
for newer devices
<missMyN900>
oh, right, I think the A64 has a low bandwidth, right?
<missMyN900>
only 32 bits?
<norayr>
uvos then we just need to suggest a tweak for low memory/weak devices. so far i don't see a lot of such devices.
<norayr>
i would like to see maemo on n810, but it doesn't look it's going to happen.
<missMyN900>
norayr: LOL most ML phones would qualify these days
<norayr>
and there that could be useful.
<norayr>
missMyN900: i have sailfish & maemo on pp now. sailfish is the most useful currently from all i have used, but i didn't try ubuntu.
<missMyN900>
is it free?
<norayr>
missMyN900: but i will probably delete it and install maemo to emmc.
<missMyN900>
because I know you had to pay for the Xperias
<norayr>
it has problems described beautifully on leste wiki. let me find it for you.
<norayr>
you pay if you use alien dalvik. otherwise you don't.
<missMyN900>
oh, I don't care about that at all
<norayr>
i didn't use alien dalvik for years though i paid for the feature. i started using it for a month, and then again more than a year i didn't use it.
<missMyN900>
there is no Android emulation on pmOS, Maemo etc either
<norayr>
there actually is something like that. maemo has andbox in repos.
<missMyN900>
I used it when I had a Jolla as daily driver
<norayr>
and on wayland there is waydroid.
<norayr>
but why use linux to use android?
<missMyN900>
well, back then I was using the Spotify app
<norayr>
jolla is near me, on a powerpc laptop. white on white.
<norayr>
yeah, i usually avoid locked ecosystems. at least i try. also i believe i saw some spotify clients for sailfish. probably not as good as their own.
<norayr>
but also probably much safer, because their own app would collect hell of info from your device.
<norayr>
maybe even from other devices around you. like facebook and instagram apps do.
<norayr>
i actually had to install sailfish on pp because my xperia started to not work. i had backup of keys for 2fa, so installed sailfish on pp to use foilauth app.
<norayr>
then xperia got repaired, and i didn't boot pp's sailfish much.
<norayr>
btw sailfish stresses out how bad is pp's screen. compared to xperia's.
<norayr>
i need to write the ui for the same 2fa app, and port it to gtk or something.
<norayr>
i asked the dev and he said it's hell of a work to port the app to the regular linux, so he refused doing that.
<Wizzup>
uvos: I agree the compositing part feels like it should maybe be optional
<norayr>
that is what is very bad about sailfish. you teach yourself to use the apps and then you get tied to the platform. you cannot change the os anymore.
<norayr>
i'll try to port/rewrite my favourite sailfish apps to gtk.
<norayr>
that is my plan.
<Wizzup>
also for hildon-desktop on lima there are perf improvements we can make
<uvos>
norayr: kind of true with maemo too, with our special gtk and qt and whatnot
<uvos>
norayr: this is honestly my biggest gripe with mobile linux
<missMyN900>
norayr: I am definitely trying to move to buying more of the music I listen to but it is WIP
<missMyN900>
so I am still partially dependent on Spotify
<uvos>
norayr: on desktop linux every app works everywhere - maybe it wont look right, but it will work thanks to xdg
<norayr>
uvos: true! but hildon libraries can be installed on anything!
<uvos>
on mobile linux
<uvos>
well
<norayr>
right? hildon libraries, so gtk program that uses hildon, can be run under gnome? kde?
<uvos>
no
<missMyN900>
norayr: LOL, PP has an amazing screen compared to the Jolla
<uvos>
out gtk2 is incomatabil with regular gtk
<missMyN900>
the Jolla screen isn't even 720p
<uvos>
either the hildon app works and nothing else or the hildon app breaks
<uvos>
you cant run a hildon gtk2 app on anything else really
<norayr>
missMyN900: did you compare dpi?
<missMyN900>
no, but I doubt it is lower
<missMyN900>
960x540 on 4.5" is not great
<norayr>
uvos that needs to be solved somehow. no idea how.
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<missMyN900>
I have never valued ultra high resolutions very much though
<missMyN900>
I was just glad to upgrade from a low-end 320x240 phone to my N900 back in the day...
<norayr>
missMyN900: just when i look at the xperia screen, or even on jolla screen, i see everything much more clear. not sure why, maybe that's glass.
<norayr>
and on droid4 it is very clear.
<uvos>
the droid4 has a really wierd display
<uvos>
having 4 subpixels
<norayr>
but well, i didn't try sailfish on droid4. maybe that's especially visible under sailfish, don't know.
* norayr
has no idea what is subpixel
<norayr>
you mean one pixel is drawn by using 4 real pixels?
<norayr>
like it's dpi is one to four?
<uvos>
subpixel = red green blue pixel for eatch full pixel
<uvos>
(usually)
<uvos>
d4 also has 3 subpixels per pixel but they are red green and white or blue green and white or red blue and white
<uvos>
so luma resultion is double
<uvos>
compeard to croma resolution
<uvos>
kinda like ntsc video
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<uvos>
anyhow the point of this wierd arrangement is to save power
<uvos>
but it makes the colors look poor
<uvos>
while keeping black on white text very clear
<uvos>
honsetly a good tradeoff for a phone - usually
<uvos>
but the color accuracy of these moto displays was allways slamed in reviews
<missMyN900>
norayr: seems like the wiki referring to Sailfish and Nemo?
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<norayr>
to sailfish for sure. nemo was based on mer, but today they are based on manjaro.
<missMyN900>
what? seriously?
<missMyN900>
Manjaro?
<Wizzup>
nemo based on manjaro? heh
<buZz>
maemo leste on emmc?
<buZz>
oh ooks
<buZz>
oops*
<buZz>
i was scrolled up
<buZz>
uvos: how does qidgets store its layout?
<buZz>
if not in a .qml
<buZz>
and i agree, just icons or screenshots if saved-so-much-IO would be worth it
<norayr>
buZz - yes, my friend uses leste on emmc.
<norayr>
and i intent as well.
<norayr>
people don't deprive us from live minimized windows - that's why we are here.
<buZz>
nice
<buZz>
i still want to try emmc leste on d4
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<buZz>
its such a nice leste device
<buZz>
faster gpu than pp too
<Wizzup>
I think you can just do it tbh
<Wizzup>
well, I mean, you need to find the right partition
<freemangordon>
Wizzup: hi! see PM
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<Wizzup>
freemangordon: ty
<buZz>
Wizzup: maybe the partition table can be wiped even
<buZz>
or well, partly
<buZz>
altered anyway
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<Wizzup>
buZz: no
<Wizzup>
that will break booting
<Wizzup>
but partially altered, yes
<uvos>
no
<uvos>
mbm checks the partition table
<uvos>
alterin it at all will cause boot failure
<uvos>
that said installing leste on emmc is no problem
<uvos>
all my devices except the primary d4 have it on emmc
<Wizzup>
care to share some info on it?
<uvos>
sure
<missMyN900>
uvos: I am not sure the volume slider is working. I tried it yesterday with mplayer and it did not have any effect. Volume was very high.
<missMyN900>
is the openmediaplayer ready to use? Maybe I can test it with that
<buZz>
but you cant get a >8GB partition of that 16GB emmc on d4
<xes>
Wizzup: the new maedevu server is a clone or a fresh setup? can we stop the old one?
<Wizzup>
fresh setup, it is a good point, I need to check if anything else needs to be done or moved over
<buZz>
Wizzup: which this?
<buZz>
emmc install?
<buZz>
i'd love to if i could understand it more ;)
<buZz>
but i could make a empty/imprecise one
<Wizzup>
buZz: well, if you want to try to do emmc install, he provided you with instructions :)
<Wizzup>
hildon-meta is in beowulf-devel with vol applet
<Wizzup>
if it's good we can put it in beowulf (stable)
* Wizzup
zzz
<buZz>
oo xt894 is d4? :P
<buZz>
right
<buZz>
lol
<buZz>
i'll go try a wikihowto of it, but not before sunday ;)
<norayr>
so was pidgin in maemo repos hildonized? i mean if i build that, then the onscreen keyboard will work?
<norayr>
(i know how onscreen works now, i mean wiill it work without requiring to do setxkbmap in other languages than those that use latin letters)
<uvos>
this just requires compiling pidign against gtk2
<uvos>
that implies using very old pidign
<uvos>
but other than that
<norayr>
but pidgin is not updated to gtk3, pidgin in beowulf and everywhere is gtk2
<norayr>
you mean, every gtk2 app should work with vkbd?
<uvos>
yes
<norayr>
because in leste gtk2 is not upstream gtk2 but hildonized gtk2?
<uvos>
yes
<norayr>
let me check, but i was sure it doesnt. let me check.
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<norayr>
uvos omg it works indeed!
<norayr>
soooo, if gtk3 and qt5 get hildon extensions, then the vkbd problem is solved?
<norayr>
though i understand that maybe that's the hard way.
<norayr>
solved assuming users won't run something like tk for instance.
<buZz>
norayr: there's no pidgin in leste repos i think? just in devuan repos
<buZz>
and should work without keyb hacks like most normal linux software, in my experience
<buZz>
just qt/gtk stuff are sometimes 'autohildonized'
<norayr>
yes, already tested. i was thinking maybe i need to bring old hildonized pidgin but uvos explained that any gtk2 program works fine with vkbd.
<buZz>
in some ways, and not in others
<norayr>
qt too?
<norayr>
probably qt4
<buZz>
norayr: yeah well, instead of pidgin, there will be a libpurple plugin to .. telepathy?
<buZz>
and you can use 'any' maemo msging program to access the maemo dbs with chat , of many protocols
<buZz>
incl 'all of libpurple
<norayr>
oh i am waiting for it.
<buZz>
but also irc, gtalk, jabber, etc
<norayr>
as soon as it'll be available maemo becomes my main device.
<buZz>
there's some of it working already in the -devel repos
<norayr>
i already have my addressbook in droid4.
<buZz>
nice, i've been using qalendar as main agenda for 2 months now
<norayr>
oh oh.
<buZz>
and doing 2G data for irc a lot
<norayr>
yes i am waiting. (:
<buZz>
~150MB this month
<norayr>
amazing.
<buZz>
cheapest 6 eu/mnt sim gave me 1GB data
<buZz>
just doing irc , not much else
<norayr>
i am connecting to irc with overhead, via own jabber gateway.
<norayr>
but i like it, that my jabber server hides my real ip from the irc server.
<buZz>
and >1d standby with a 12yo battery on droid4, is just amazing
<norayr>
omg omg omg
<buZz>
requires a sim
<buZz>
modem cant power dwn without a sim yet? not sure
<norayr>
my droid4 is verizon locked, and i am in armenia, so that's not an option, but... not that i need it, because i don't use sim cards at all.
<norayr>
the only sim card i have is in the 3g router, and distributes wifi when i am out of house.
<norayr>
and it's not mine, and i tend to turn it on far from home.
<norayr>
but that has no sense except of feeling good about not giving up more data about me than i can.
<buZz>
norayr: i dont think 'verizon locked' is really a thing
<norayr>
otherwise just complicates life. but i am used to it.
<norayr>
oh really?
<buZz>
yeah
<norayr>
i didn't even try, i may try to put a sim card then, one day.
<buZz>
verizon is cdma afaik , they didnt use sims
<norayr>
wow.
<buZz>
i think you can try, and even just inserting it without even working should help batterylife
<buZz>
i mean, it should be a valid sim
<buZz>
but doesnt need credit or be allowed on network, i think
<norayr>
what? just inserting a sim improves power consumption?
<norayr>
saves power?
<buZz>
yeah
<norayr>
woow
<buZz>
its weird, i know
<norayr>
is it on hw level?
<buZz>
its probably documented in a issue somewhere
<buZz>
not sure if it happens on android too, never ran that much
<buZz>
just from a user perspective, my batterylife went up when i inserted a sim, without even using it or having ofono installed