<nij->
It does. But sbcl's thread is not os thread.
<nij->
I bet even if sbcl uses 1 OS thread, it can still support multiple sbcl threads.
<nij->
What I'm wondering is.. why is the limit ~5000?
<Alfr>
nij-, some cgroup limit or ulimit -u ?
<hayley>
It does use OS threads.
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<Bike>
i mean, you can configure the asdf search path, so that it will search for things without you having to move file around
<Bike>
it's still kind of a pain, but it's there
* skin
nods
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<nij->
What's wrong with cl:load -ing the defsystem form manually?
<nij->
-- Threads: Does it mean that each sbcl thread corresponds to an OS thread?
<nij->
(Doesn't seem so when I inspect with `ps -T -p $(pgrep sbcl)`).
<mfiano>
Yes, OS threads. You can dig into that in #sbcl though.
<Bike>
it's just less organized, i guess. i do not feel strongly about this. i'm just saying if you want asdf to find your systems, you can do that "the right way" without moving any of your systems around.
<nij->
Bike Got it :)
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<edwlan[m]>
The right way to manually load asds is (asdf:load-asd "/absolute/path/to/foo.asd")
<edwlan[m]>
I use (mapcar 'asdf:load-asd (directory "*.asd")) alot
<edwlan[m]>
Or (mapcar 'asdf:load-asd (directory "PROJECTS:FOO;*.ASD"))
<mfiano>
mapc is shorter :)
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<edwlan[m]>
Yeah, but I have my own fork of load-op that stores a diff of systems so I can see what systems I actually loaded
<edwlan[m]>
s/loaded/got from loading the ASD/
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<ogamita>
edwlan[m]: (map nil #'load stuff) may be nice in the REPL to avoid unwanted output.
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<john_titor>
and remember folks to always put (contrary to asdf "best practices") (in-package #:asdf-user) as the first form in the asd file
<john_titor>
then you'll be able to simply load it if deemed necessary (i.e from slime with C-c C-k)
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<scymtym>
when the swank-asdf contrib is loaded (i don't know whether that is the case by default), C-c C-k goes through SWANK::TRY-COMPILE-ASD-FILE which calls ASDF:LOAD-ASD
<scymtym>
so for that specific case, the IN-PACKAGE form is not required
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<john_titor>
it is not the case by default here (just checked)
<scymtym>
thanks for checking
<john_titor>
sure
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<mgl>
In the Hyperspec, why is FIXNUM a type but FLOAT a system class?
<john_titor>
mgl: I think that there is no particular reason, just like there is no reason that single-float and double-float are defined as types (and not classes)
<Bike>
i think that's because implementations are allowed to have only one kind of float. no idea about fixnum though. i could guess
<john_titor>
maybe because bignum could be implemented by simply signaling a storage exhausted condition when fixnum overflows making the fixnum cover whole integer class
<john_titor>
before someone points out that condition is not necessarily a built-in class - yes, I know :)
<mgl>
Nice visualization.
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<mfiano>
condition is a class
<mfiano>
beach and i got to the bottom of it a while ago
<john_titor>
do you have some writeup what did you base this conclusion on?
<mfiano>
i'll search the logs in a bit. it was no more than a year ago in one of these channels
<john_titor>
conditions in the standard contain the 'class precedence list' entries
<mfiano>
yes, there is a lot that suggests that they MUST be classes
<mfiano>
the specifics are lost on me though
<Bike>
making them not classes would take active effort, since you'd need some kind of parallel description of slots and stuff
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<mfiano>
"Conditions are generalized instances of the class condition"
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<mfiano>
"The metaclass of the class condition is not specified. Names of condition types may be used to specify supertype relationships in define-condition, but the consequences are not specified if an attempt is made to use a condition type as a superclass in a defclass form."
<john_titor>
still it is not necessarily a built-in-class (speaking of inaccurate parts of the diagram)
<mfiano>
that is true. i was careful to say 'class' :)
<john_titor>
yeah, I'm just rereading what I wrote and concluding I was not wrong ;]
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<nij->
Does each SBCL thread correspond to one OS thread? If so, why can't I observe it with `ps -t -p $PID_SBCL`?
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<Bike>
nij-: what version of ps is this exactly? on my system -t selects a tty
<Bike>
ps H -p $(pgrep sbcl) dutifully reports all seven of my sbcl process's threads
<Bike>
oh, -L is better
<nij->
Lemme see!
<nij->
H doesn't work here. -L stands for "List the set of keywords available for -O and -o".
<nij->
Ah! I found the option to list threads on my machine. And that worked as expected. Thanks :)
<Bike>
did you just guess that it was -t?
<nij->
That explains why everytime the amount of threads is limited by the same number :)
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<nij->
Bike That's what I've been using before. command line facilities options are less portable than I thought.
<nij->
(on other machiens)
<Bike>
ps has a lot of different weird versions.
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<nij->
:-(
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<nij->
How is FFI implemented under the hood? Does it usually maintain a "C runtime", and talk to it?
<Bike>
the compiler knows how to generate C ABI calls.
<Bike>
or well, the OS ABI
<nij->
Right. But does it have to maintain a C runtime to store variables there?
<nij->
Or it launches a new C runtime everytime a call is made?
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<Bike>
i'm not sure you understand what a C runtime is. You don't need a special process to call a C function. You just put some stuff in the machine registers and execute a call instruction.
<Bike>
there are no "variables". you can store stuff in memory, and if that stuff matches the ABI C programs will not care.
<nij->
But there should still be a separate process waiting to talk to lisp, right?
<boigahs_>
There are a bunch of instructions in memory somewhere and you jump there
<Bike>
nij-: No. Why would there be.
<White_Flame>
it's all in-process. C just needs a valid stack pointer and TLS segments etc
<Bike>
That's what I meant by saying there's no special process.
<Bike>
You do load-foreign-library and that does dlopen (on posix), loading the shared object into the lisp process's memory. when you do foreign-funcall it gets a reference to the compiled machine code with dlsym, which is just a pointer. The foreign-funcall is compiled as an ABI call that goes to that pointer.
<nij->
Oh, I see :O
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<pjb>
nij-: libraries loaded with dlopen may be relocatable or not. This means that if they need some "global variable" memory space, it can be allocated anywhere there's some free addressing space. If not, if it requires some absolute memory addresses, then dlopen can only be successful if those absolute memory addresses are free.
<pjb>
nij-: beside "global variable" memory space, C code usually use either auto variables (on the stack), or heap variables (malloc'ed). Malloc is just another C function, from a shared library. It allocates C heap memory using OS syscalls.
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