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<green_>
(cl-base64:string-to-base64-string nil) exhausts my heap, but I don't know how or where to report this bug. Does Kevin Rosenberg ever show up on IRC?
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<semz>
green_: The .asd file lists "Kevin M. Rosenberg <kmr@debian.org>" in the maintainer field.
<semz>
so you can probably just email him if you don't find another way
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<gin>
hiya! how have you been all?
<beach>
Hello gin.
<gin>
hi beach!
<gin>
I have been away from this channel for sometime but I haven't stopped learning CL. I think all the effort is finally paying off. I have a small collection of personal tools all written in CL.
<gin>
for stuff I used to write shell scripts for, I now have the tools written in CL.
<beach>
Great!
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<mi6x3m>
hey lisp, is a class the preferred way to manage data i read from a json object
<mi6x3m>
or is a package consisting of query methods on a plist / alist hierachy acceptable?
<alcor>
if the data is indeed "just data" then a struct is probably is arguably a better choice than either
<_death>
it's a pretty general question and I'm inclined to say "it depends".. but then, I think in most cases you should use the most convenient internal representation for your program, and think of the json external data as just something to be translated into this internal representation
<mi6x3m>
hmmm
<mi6x3m>
let me check about structs
<mi6x3m>
_death, hm, you might be on to something there
<alcor>
Although I must say, I'm not really a fan of the "anemic data model"-school of design i.e. https://www.martinfowler.com/bliki/AnemicDomainModel.html, especially not in CL. CL has a powerful object model. You can easily have proper domain objects with useful behavior.
<ixelp>
AnemicDomainModel
<mi6x3m>
interesting
<mi6x3m>
I have to agree with you there
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<beach>
A standard class is usually the most convenient choice. The semantics of structs are not so great, and they don't allow multiple inheritance.
<beach>
mi6x3m: Careful with terminology. Every Common Lisp object is an instance of a class.
<mi6x3m>
i think i'll just go ahead with a alist / plist thing with semantically processed data
<mi6x3m>
the user is going to read it once anyhow and throw it away immediately
<mi6x3m>
if it had the chance of some lifetime i'd go with a class
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<edwlan[m]>
Even if you use alists/plists,you should be using them through accessors
<edwlan[m]>
e.g. instead of using (cdr (assoc 'foo...)) all over you should typially use a function called FOO that hides that implementation detail
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<_death>
alcor: I don't think this anti-pattern makes a lot of sense when using an object system like CLOS, where behavior belongs in generic functions and not in objects (instances)
<alcor>
_death: This anti-pattern was popularized by the C++/Java-style sect of OOP. There, it's hard to add behavior to a domain class without accidentially introducting coupling. In the CL/Smalltalk OOP sect, this isn't a problem due to generic functions, advices, and dynamic scoping being available.
<mi6x3m>
edwlan[m], that's the plan
<mi6x3m>
anyone knows of a sane way to get a floating point from a decimal and fraction integers?
<fiddlerwoaroof>
(coerce thing 'single-float)
<fiddlerwoaroof>
or double-float
<_death>
alcor: I'm not sure why Smalltalk is in the second camp there
<fiddlerwoaroof>
,(coerce 1/2 'single-float)
<ixelp>
(coerce 1/2 'single-float) => 0.5
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<mi6x3m>
fiddlerwoaroof, I need (foo 12 34) => 12.34
<mi6x3m>
smalltalk has this function search thing built-in btw
<mi6x3m>
it's epic
<edwlan[m]>
(/ 12 34 1.0)
<edwlan[m]>
Oops, nvm
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<_death>
mi6x3m: what would (foo 12 1) return? and (foo 12 10)?
<mi6x3m>
there is hidden info here, i forgot to gave you, but yeah you're right
<gilberth>
The sanest probably is taking a detour over ratios. ,(coerce (+ 12 (/ 34 100)) 'single-float)
<alcor>
_death: It's in the second camp because it has `become:' allowing one to change an object's identity, in addition full reflection over basically everything in the image
<mi6x3m>
thanks gilberth, this is what i went for
<_death>
alcor: I don't understand why that makes the anti-pattern inapplicable.. also, I'm not too familiar with smalltalk.. does become: actually affect object identity, or more akin to change-class?
<gilberth>
The very least you want to do when going with READ-FROM-STRING is (1) bind *REAL-EVAL* to NIL (2) use WITH-STANDARD-IO-SYNTAX, and in your case bind *READ-DEFAULT-FLOAT-FORMAT* as needed. Like (with-standard-io-syntax (let ((*read-eval* nil) (*read-default-float-format* <as you like>)) (read-from-string ...)))
<alcor>
_death: It does something to the effect of replacing every instance pointer to X in the image with a pointer to instance Y, thus allowing one to transparently implement the decorator pattern i.e. turning an anemic object to a non-anemic one
<_death>
alcor: I see.. the post by Gilad Bracha says "In the absence of an object table, become: traverses the heap in a manner similar to a garbage collector." ...
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<semz>
mi6x3m: fwiw that op is underspecified, unless you specifically want the fractional part to be hundredths. Is (foo 1 1) 1.1? 1.01? 1.001? etc
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<fiddlerwoaroof>
I think the idea is that the fractional part is divided by 10 raised to its length
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<fiddlerwoaroof>
Which means that 2,10 and 2,1 represent the same value 2.1
<Krystof>
how do you get 2.01?
<semz>
what is its length though? the digit sequences 01 and 1 both become 1
<fiddlerwoaroof>
I guess you can't, good question :)
<Krystof>
oh well
<fiddlerwoaroof>
Sicne they're strings, though, this works
<fiddlerwoaroof>
"01" is not "1"
<Krystof>
luckily there are no numbers which have leading zeros in their decimal expansion
<gilberth>
I believe the ideas was that this FOO gets strings. Perhaps gathered while parsing something.
<alcor>
_death: Yes, I'm not sure how modern Smalltalk implements it efficiently. It sounds computationally expensive, but powerful (where applicable). Haven't heard of any other platform that can do that.
<fiddlerwoaroof>
There's probably some sort of inline cache strategy that could handle this relatively efficiently
<_death>
alcor: what I'm wondering is how useful would that be, if you already have a change-class operator (that doesn't need to change references, in practice using the indirection approach)
<_death>
the change-all-references approach kinda gives me a "1 become: 2" kick
<alcor>
_death: change-class just changes the class, it doesn't touch the state (or rather, it delegates that to update-instance-for-different-class)
<alcor>
_death: "change-all-references" has at least simpler semantics. It does what it says.
<_death>
alcor: what you maybe meaning to say is that it may touch the state (via u-i-f-d-c) but not identity
<alcor>
_death: Kind of. State handling with change-class harbors a few footguns that don't exist with the nuclear approach that is reference patching
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<_death>
what would those be?
<alcor>
_death: To quote the CLHS: "If in the old class there is any slot of the same name as a local slot in the new-class, the value of that slot is retained"
<_death>
that just sounds like part of the protocol.. granted if a programmer didn't expect it to happen, may have footache, but doesn't that mean that anything can serve as a footgun?
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<alcor>
It makes naming collisions hurt, but admittedly I don't know how a better solution could look like (perhaps raising a condition?)
<alcor>
The issue is that it's subtle and causes no explicit error. It's one of these things that can create difficult-to-debug issues.
<_death>
but I agree that change-class (that requires an instance evolution protocol) is more elaborate
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<pve>
I was wondering the other day if "become:" can be simulated in CL somehow, but it probably can't, right?
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<pve>
(I'm currently hacking on my smalltalk-in-lisp :)
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