<beach>
But you would typically do that in a display function.
<beach>
Also, I suggest you join #clim for questions like that.
<beach>
If you want to try things interactively, I suggest you use the CLIM listener. Then you can just issue calls to drawing functions, using *STANDARD-OUTPUT* as the stream.
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<splittist>
Nilby: thanks
<Guest86>
beach thank you for your suggestion to use CLIM listener but I would like to figure out things this way for the time being.
<pve>
Hi! I'd like to wrap the lambda expression I give to make-method-lambda with symbol-macrolet, like (symbol-macrolet (...) (lambda (...) ...)), but apparently this can't be done. Is there some standard way that I could manually trigger the symbol-macrolet expansion and end up with a lambda expression that I could then give to make-method-lambda?
<beach>
Guest86: Normally, your pane will be erased for each command in the command loop, so you need to define yourself a display function in which you do the drawing.
<jackdaniel>
in principle you may return the stream from the body and use it later for drawing, but remember to call finish-output on the stream to ensure some actual output
<jackdaniel>
if you want to have the real frame, then set :display-time nil as the argument to the application pane, and define a method that performs drawing, then execute it with execute-frame-command (which is thread-safe)
<jackdaniel>
you need to go through execute-frame-command because this function takes care of potential race conditions
<pve>
ok, i tried instead to do (funcall (compile nil `(lambda () (symbol-macrolet (...) ,method-lambda)))) on the resulting method-lambda, and it seems I can make a method instance using that :)
<Guest86>
beach, jackdaniel you are too fast on your replies, thank you for, but I need some time to think (defclass my-stream
<Guest86>
(:pane (make-pane 'my-stream))) and I get lost!
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<jackdaniel>
I think that you need to work a bit more on making questions intelligible
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<Guest86>
beach >your pane will be erased for each command in the command loop, so you need to define yourself a display function in which you do the drawing. May you write an example code that defines a display function in which the drawing is done?
<beach>
Guest86: There are tons of examples in the McCLIM repository.
<Guest86>
beach I do not trust them.
<jackdaniel>
they are written so people can learn, that's literally their purpose
<jackdaniel>
(and for testing)
<Guest86>
jackdaniel May you point handle-repaint example out to me?
<beach>
Guest86: That is not something you will need for most applications.
<jackdaniel>
there's that, and there is also a tool called grep to find numerous examples that make use of handle-repaint
<jackdaniel>
I think that the most prominent ones are colorslider and logic-cube
<Guest86>
beach >That is not something you will need for most applications. May you give me an example of code that is being used in most applications then?
<jackdaniel>
see the demo "puzzle"
<jackdaniel>
and "address-book"
<beach>
What jackdaniel said.
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<zest>
hello
<jackdaniel>
hey
<zest>
when implementing a network protocol in common lisp, should one concern with using a library like fast-io? or just use the default common lisp I/O functions...
<Gnuxie>
bitblit: something is broken in the IRC bridge
<ogamita>
zest: CL doesn't have network API, so you'd have to target some network API anyways. Most often, Gray streams are used to provide a kind of stream connected to the network, so you may use usual CL I/O operators.
<ogamita>
zest: but mind that while network API may provide something like a stream abstraction over their connection, it's not always entirely transparent, so depending on the application, you may prefer to use the network API directly. It depends.
<ogamita>
zest: I tend to use usocket as a portability library (combined with CL I/O operators when using streaming protocols).
<ogamita>
zest: note also how it depends on the architecture you choose: either multi-thread with usual control flow (and therefore blocking CL I/O operators), or event-loop based, with non-blocking I/O operators.
<ogamita>
zest: and, what I like most too, you may also implement a network protocol without using any I/O or network API. Just define your up and down API, and let the client hook them to actual I/O or whatever network API he wants.
<ogamita>
(see test.lisp, it's a kind of mock test of telnet.lisp, which is 100% natural when you structure your code like this with clearly defined APIs and no dependency).
<ogamita>
it implement a telnet server, with a simple REPL.
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<zest>
but should the parameters octet-vectors or streams? I know streams can be bufferred and that gives the client more room to play with performance but I also want to unit test my functions...
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<ogamita>
Again, it depends on your requirements. For maximal portability, you may prefer octet-vectors, since that allows the client to use any kind of I/O it wants. On the other hand, indeed, using a streaming operators makes it simple and convenient (this is why eg. CLIM make the effort of using STREAM to let the application communicate with the GUI backend.
<hamza>
Hello Everyone!
<ogamita>
)
<ogamita>
Hi hamza!
<hamza>
Can anyone read my messages?
<hamza>
Yay
<zest>
hamza: yes
<ogamita>
I did.
<ogamita>
so I could.
<hamza>
I was talking for so long turns out bridge was broken lmao
<hamza>
I thought this channel died
<beach>
Ouch!
<hamza>
Yeah, feels so good to meet you guys everytime!
<hamza>
So anyways, in short I wanted to type variables inside my LOOP, I know I could extract it out to a let and then use that in loop typing that with declare, but is there a shorter way/
<Guest86>
jackdaniel>they are written so people can learn, that's literally their purpose. Well, let's take a look into A guided tour of CLIM Our first application chapter. We find how to define-application-pane and how to make-pane but when we arrive at using a method we can not figure out how it works with hello-world frame. At this point learning process
<Guest86>
comes to logical end. May be it is a time to revise the guide and examples as well?
<zest>
hamza: do you just wanna modify the list elements? if so, why not mapcar?
<hamza>
zest: umm actually just normal :for x := 0 :then (+ x 2) type loop variables
<hamza>
so no list involved
<hamza>
It's actually for counting divisors of a number
<hamza>
but then for every triangle number.
<hamza>
Problem 12 in Eulers Project
<zest>
hamza: maybe loop with collect? it'd be a one liner
<zest>
hamza: wait i'll check that problem 12 out..
<hamza>
Thanks!
<hamza>
(for checking it out not collect)
<hamza>
What was the pastebin again?
<zest>
hamza: that problems easy just gimme a couple of minutes...
<zest>
hamza: I think that's the shortest way.. you're not using a let
<hamza>
but I'm not typing it either
<zest>
hamza: what do you mean?
<hamza>
I wanted to type the variables like so, look here is an optimized version:
<hamza>
1 thing is that divisor-count is MUCCCH faster now especially for even numbers, but p12 takes the same amount of time even after timing I know, kind of premature optimization
<hamza>
Running it, I ccouldn't get an answer under a minute or even after a minute lol so uhhhh probably need to change algo
<zest>
hamza: ohhhhh, you meant algorithimic optimization not how concise the code is...
<zest>
ogamita: thanks guess I'll go with streams since the protocol I'll use will do file transfers...
<hamza>
I am thinking of using a list of first 2 million primes
<hamza>
using sieve of aritosthenes
<zest>
hamza: A list wouldn't work, you need a hash-table since a hash-table's efficiency doesn't worsen with size
<zest>
hamza: I think if you wanted to, you could make a version of p12 that's 3 lines if you used pure recursion
<hamza>
zest: so count doesn't act as an accumulator?
<hamza>
but instead collects and then checks length???
<zest>
hamza: pretty much, but I am not too sure
<zest>
hamza: wait i'll illustrate by rewriting the divisor-count function
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<beach>
I think a list is just fine.
<beach>
You sort it in increasing order, so that you hit more likely prime factors first.
<hamza>
Okay! Thanks beach, will try that
<zest>
beach: but what about constant time vs linear time
<beach>
Constant time for computing primes?
<zest>
beach: yes, wouldn't access N at list be linear time?
<beach>
With every new candiate prime, you need to test all previously computed primes to see whether one is a factor.
<beach>
And it is best to do that from the smallest one, so that you are more likely to hit a factor and decide the candidate is not a prime.
<beach>
zest: You wouldn't attempt to access the already computed primes in some random order, so a list is just fine.
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<beach>
Oh, maybe I didn't read very carefully. The task was not to implement the sieve, was it? Sorry!
<hamza>
wait so now that i got the divisors that are primes, now for every prime divisor i found i should go through the list and multiply by each one? and repeat that?
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<hamza>
so any solution?
<beach>
I am being quiet because I think I misunderstood the task.
<zest>
beach: hahaha, happens to the best of us
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<zest>
hamza: btw i am still writing the recursive function but stumbling with some erorr
<zest>
hamza: im pretty close, wanna see?
<zest>
hamza: as to the solution, i have no clue..
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<hamza>
zest: yes
<hamza>
i want to see
<hamza>
I made it using the first 20 million primes
<hamza>
but its not enough and number is in 10s of billions
<hamza>
so it doesn't catch all divisors and is slow apparently
<hamza>
Actually divisor-count is MUCCHHH faster, However, again, it isn't able to catch all primes
<hamza>
I don't know if having a predifined list of primes in a file is cheating???
<zest>
hamza: it is... but defining it as you're using it isn't cheating :p
<hamza>
Here is what I got, I could obviously optimize this ALOT but it doesn't need it getting the divisors of a really large number is sub millisecond
<hamza>
while the previous version took 10 seconds or more
<hamza>
lol, I kept looking for faster divisor algorithm and they all decieved me because they calculated from 1 to sqrt of n but that missed some numbers!
<hamza>
I didn't realise that each of the numbers uptill sqrt n, n came in each one of those number's table
<hamza>
EXACTLY ONCE
<hamza>
I thought I had to some recursion or whatever
<hamza>
but that is handled by sqrt n
<hamza>
therefore the last case would be the divisor sqrt n => sqrt n * sqrt n = n
<zest>
hamza: that's also relieving since I don't think I make the solution with recursion
<hamza>
yeah
<zest>
loop exists for a reason and that is to stop people like write me from writing recursion functions
<zest>
hamza: so simple... you even removed the declarations
<hamza>
srsly, in the middle after learning haskell i wanted to write everything in recursive functions, turns out that's not always the best ;)
<hamza>
zest: yeah
<zest>
hamza: how much of an improvement is this?
<zest>
hamza: last time you said it is 20 seconds...
<hamza>
Uh the entire problem wasn't able to finish even after 1 and a half minute, so there is that. But here, I get the answer in .703 seconds
<hamza>
zest: for reference, (divisors 122938102923339) runs in 0.124 seconds
<hamza>
As the square root of that is 11087745
<hamza>
Adding declarations and all would further halve the time probably
<hamza>
but that would sacrifice the cleanliness of code which I don't need to spoil.
<zest>
hamza: congrats
<zest>
hamza: you did it!!
<zest>
i gtg, was nice talking to you!!
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<hamza>
zest: You too thanks a bunch!
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<piethesailor>
Hello all! Still working on the match error using clx..
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<gilberth>
piethesailor: Have you verified that xwd works? I mean, this puzzles me as the only cause for a Match error according to the protocol spec is that the rectangle asked for is not viewable (and thus not really present).
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<gilberth>
Hence I suspect the X server being funny. And: Is it really XLIB:GET-IMAGE causing this error? First thing after you opened the display, please say (setf (xlib:display-after-function dpy) #'xlib:display-finish-output) to make requests synchronous. That's not recommended in general, but aids debugging.
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<piethesailor>
xwd isnt on my machine, or at least in terminal: $ xwd returns xwd: command not found
<Nilby>
piethesailor: It turns out x11 apps can't do screenshots with X protocol when running under wayland.
<gilberth>
Oh, so my hunch was right? Guess, the root window doesn't really exist then.
<gilberth>
Or it's some security measure. Who knows?
<Nilby>
It exists but it always get that error. Apps like gimp and obs had to be fix to do screen capture under wayland.
<piethesailor>
hmm, so I suppose my issue is that I am running wayland and that my x11 applications are running under Xwayland?
<Nilby>
Yes. That Lisp code works on my system which isn't running wayland.
<splittist>
People might take pictures of videos, and then what is the point of all that vital CD anti-copying technology?
<piethesailor>
Ahh... is there a clx equivalent to wayland?lol
<splittist>
DVD, rather. (Mixed up my ancient technology.)
<Nilby>
I tested on a system with wayland couldn't get around the issue with x11 code.
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<piethesailor>
Like cl-wayland?
<Nilby>
The problem is that in wayland you have to do everything yourself, unless you're using a big toolkit like gtk or qt.
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<gilberth>
Wayland is a glorified blitterer. And it's not network transparent.
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<piethesailor>
I guess that is why there is some friction from moving from Xorg to Wayland
<piethesailor>
sounds hideous
<jackdaniel>
the fact that xorg is a frankenstein's monster plays its part too
<gilberth>
The whole story is quite sad IMHO. And you see beginnings of that with the RENDER extension. With that you're also on your own, all RENDER can do is drawing triangles and blittering. So you need to turn your shapes you want to draw into triangles and raster your fonts on your own. I really don't like that idea. I mean, why isn't Cairo with the server? And why isn't font rendering happening at the server?
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<Nilby>
piethesailor: it's even worse because the window system should probably be a glorified pixel shader, but the hardware is proprietary
<gilberth>
So, when you're on your own and that is modern, moving to a mere blittering protocol and thus Wayland appears to be logical next step.
<piethesailor>
Is there any kind of answer to this? I suppose there might at least be a linux distro that is just doubling down on staying with Xorg?
<piethesailor>
Or maybe a toy distro with a third option that is in infancy
<gilberth>
The original argument for moving to "you're on your own" was that transferring font metrics from the server to the client increases application start-up time. Funny however is that when I want to send you a PS or PDF file, I don't need to ask you for your font metrics first. Magic?
<Nilby>
gilberth: As you may know, of the "magic" is the font must be embedded, or identical to the server or it renders improperly.
<gilberth>
Yes, and that is no problem. DVI files e.g. embed a checksum. The client could say "I want to use Times.ttf checksum 269926926 as my font" The server then could check, whether it has that font. In 99% of the cases it already has it. If not, it could ask the client "Please send me a copy of font checksum 269926926". Could also work with a third party in the mix. Both client and server could communicate with a font server, so ...
<gilberth>
... that in a network you can have a shared repository of fonts.
<gilberth>
In most cases, no fonts need to be transferred as you always use the same fonts for your Emacs, your shell, and whatnot and thus server and client would already have a copy.
<Nilby>
Yes, it could be worked out much better. Ancient dvi and tex pdf files always see to render fine.
<gilberth>
With DVI it is pure luck. The DVI files don't even include metrics, which are needed to at least place glyphs correctly. I just named it as an example where checksums are used to identify a version of a particular font.
<gilberth>
With PDF you either use one of the default fonts Times, Helvetica, Courier, which have well-known metrics since PS exists. Or you embed that font.
<gilberth>
But this is starting to get off-topic.
<piethesailor>
gilberth: Unfortunately the topic might be wrapped up. I don't know that there is an immediate solution for screenshoting programaticly in CL. Of course I could start writing my own library for it I guess
<piethesailor>
Starting with cl-wayland..
<piethesailor>
even though that package is a light wrapper. Might need to build on that first
<gilberth>
Good luck then. I'd rather just switch to proper X11 and be set.
<piethesailor>
I'll take that advice.. Could use a solution sooner than later. Wayland isnt on ubuntu <21.10, right? being on windows subsystem, I should just downlaod ubuntu 18 and work on that from now on..
<piethesailor>
I will be back soon on ubuntu 18.xx
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* gilberth
moves window system discussion to #lispcafe.
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<piethesailor>
Okay.. using Ubuntu-18.04 is not working lol
<piethesailor>
Still getting a match error. I need to check if I have wayland on here and if so, how do I rid myself of it
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<waleee>
ubuntu 18.04 has reached EOL so use at own risk I guess
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<piethesailor>
I suppose all linux distros moved to wayland in some form or fashion.. Nilby: what are you doing to run pure Xorg?
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<Nilby>
piethesailor: I run a very weird environment without things like wayland, systemd, desktop env, etc. If you want to test, you can probably just run Xorg by hand.
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<Nilby>
piethesailor: I don't use arch, but the arch wiki https://wiki.archlinux.org/ has good information for doing everything by hand.
<ixelp>
ArchWiki
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<piethesailor>
Hmm. is there at least a way to force X11 to be the only renderer? Like if I just delete the $WAYLAND_DISPLAY vaiable or something?
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<piethesailor>
Maybe that will break something? I only use emacs and ... well chrome for some cl-selenium webscrapping. I suppose things could break there
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<Nilby>
The problem is getting at the root window contents is probably disallowed with x11, no matter what. Also running under WSL it proably runs X11 in "rootless" mode. You'd have to change the startup scripts to run Xorg instead of wayland + xwayland. I've never run WSL so I don't know if it supports it. One thing you could try is tesing a VM booted on a non-wayland linux distro.
<piethesailor>
Whats a good non-wayland distro? A google search only shows distros that have defaulted to wayland
<piethesailor>
I know I could build arch without wayland, but i'd like to avoid the arch route if possible
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<Nilby>
Unless you enjoy that sort of thing I would just run-program a screenshot program that works on wayland.
<gilberth>
piethesailor: Usually with the login screen once you chose the user there is a cog wheel at the lower right which allows you to chose between Wayland and no Wayland. I just fired up my Ubuntu 20 and it still has that. And indeed, when I chose Wayland, xwd too catches this BadMatch error we where talking about. When I chose not to use Wayland that is fine again.
<gilberth>
Otherwise, I am a Debian user without a desktop environment, when I use Linux. I have that Ubuntu there only for testing purposes.
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<aeth>
does it matter if a distro defaults to Wayland or not? As long as Wayland-on-Nvidia is buggy and as long as Nvidia GPUs are so popular, then they'll still have to support X
<aeth>
e.g. Fedora
<aeth>
in Fedora, for KDE you can select Wayland or X11 version. And most non-KDE/non-GNOME WMs/DEs are probably still X-only
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<saturn2>
piethesailor: debian still supports xorg
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