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<Guest32>
hello can you help me. I want to share my wifi internet and go out through the ethernet I am in armbian desktop and I can not find the way to do it
<lanefu>
Guest32: same way you'd do on any debian linux box.. maybe you can find a howto there.. no magic button to click, will take some hands-on work
<stipa>
maybe you see it like it's the line because you're already member of that rule system
<IgorPec>
you want something from us?
<stipa>
but if you're outside of it the rules are things that have to be understood in order to be able to participate in the system
<IgorPec>
if nothing, we are fine
<IgorPec>
what you want to participate in?
<stipa>
it's not just for Armbian, it's for everything else
<stipa>
too
<IgorPec>
yes, i get that.
<stipa>
follow the rules and you'll be fine
<stipa>
you'll blend in
<IgorPec>
if you want to deal with us, those are rules
<IgorPec>
outside rules, you are abusing this relatinship
<IgorPec>
like demending attention to fix a problem is one of the examples
<IgorPec>
or "calling in the middle of the night" to get attantion
<IgorPec>
those rules gives you and us some framework of safe ground
<IgorPec>
that you will not get in conflict so easy
<IgorPec>
you = anyone
<stipa>
idk
<stipa>
try it
<IgorPec>
i don't need to try. those rules are for others, while we will also have them to proceed
<IgorPec>
without rules, you will eat us alive
<IgorPec>
and you do exactly that, while you are not even aware of
<IgorPec>
this is how this support looks like. from the giving side
<stipa>
that's what everybody does
<stipa>
i see it everywhere
<IgorPec>
yes and we fight this every day
<stipa>
well, maybe rules will fix it
<IgorPec>
they will surely help, but it won't fix everything
<stipa>
but, will it stop?
<stipa>
lol
<stipa>
i think users moaning is part of it all
<stipa>
the big integral part of what is done here
<IgorPec>
it can't stop. If we manage to train ourselves, we have no ultimate control on the public
<IgorPec>
that's not possible
<IgorPec>
but we can fire with bigger and better guns
<stipa>
yeah, that's the reason there are guns, army, police and power
<stipa>
eventually it ends like that
<stipa>
rules, power, violence, shit
<IgorPec>
violence is on your side
<IgorPec>
extreme and every day
<IgorPec>
you just don't see it
<stipa>
yeah, tha's what everybody thinks unfortunatelly
<stipa>
that's a fact
<stipa>
you can force stuff with violence but it never ends nice and creates shit
<IgorPec>
everyone is supporting peoples problems? I know a few, but everybody is a extremly overrated
<IgorPec>
violence is your support asking flow
<IgorPec>
and we fight this violence with a contract
<stipa>
well,
<stipa>
you're playing with the big players, that's how it's done
<stipa>
if you want to be a part of it that's what you have to do to keep the spice flowing
<IgorPec>
i think you don't understand at all
<stipa>
i do
<IgorPec>
and this is the reaons why contract is there
<IgorPec>
when you fall out. read and understand why we will not work for you as a slave
<IgorPec>
which is what you expect
<IgorPec>
support is problem. how you don't get it?
<stipa>
it's not about the slavery, it's about the freedom
<IgorPec>
is telling the one who is stealing me time and money
<stipa>
well, i have no interests in changing what you think about me
<stipa>
it's your freedom to do so
<IgorPec>
no, its not personal
<IgorPec>
i am meeting scumbags telling me something about freedom, free software, while on the same time asking me to solve them a problem
<IgorPec>
because they need to fix something for their client
<stipa>
i don't have clients
<IgorPec>
but my time is wasted for the same amount of cash
<stipa>
well
<stipa>
you know
<stipa>
they come out of school, need to do some project fast
<IgorPec>
no, just check contract you have and respect it
<stipa>
pay bills
<stipa>
sbc is perfect for AI and stuff
<IgorPec>
they came in hundreds, thasands
<IgorPec>
it is not possible to pay the bill
<IgorPec>
how can you not understand that?
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<stipa>
well, i think you're aware who sbc buyers are
<IgorPec>
yes I am.
<stipa>
tbh, in this channel
<IgorPec>
support is no go and not stop
<stipa>
i haven't seen anyone who deploys sbcs for someone else
<IgorPec>
download software, run it, change it, learn it
<ikmaak>
it was indeed wild. i followed things off and on during the project from before it was armbian, and the time needed from main devs to answer questions made it impossible to imagine people having time to dev at all.
<IgorPec>
stipa: i know mainly from a question if it goes for hobby person or business client saving his money but wasting our time
<ikmaak>
stipa: a lot of people want to "make a box to sell that just does X" and would like to solve all their problems by just asking devs of all the parts they needed hoping to glue all their questions together in the end product.
<stipa>
IgorPec: ikmaak yeah, that's how it's done
<stipa>
but no one expects software to be buggy
<IgorPec>
stipa: fix it yourself
<IgorPec>
or pay someone to fix it for you. Its your problem.
<IgorPec>
when you will get that, we will be friends
<ikmaak>
saddest part is, a lot of people have no idea how many papercuts have to be fixed even after initial development, so most of the people that the devs have invested time in for some reason have to give up their idea, so time is spent, but no result is public.
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<ikmaak>
and as the nature of IRC does not allow reading back if the question is answered already, q&a tends to repeat as well.
<rhagu>
Hi I uninstalled haveged to try and see if my Allwinner H5 CPU is supported by rng-tools, but there are different version: rng-tools, rng-tools-debian, rng-tools5, which one should I use?
<stipa>
the one in your repo
<ikmaak>
i know of projects that require a documentation requirement, so that all the info users ask is their task to take care of documenting in the official docs.
<rhagu>
stipa well, they are all in my repo, where else would I get this specific list from?
<IgorPec>
providing linux is providing 10.000 bugs
<stipa>
rhagu: from googlr
<stipa>
google*
<stipa>
rhagu: i would try my luck with rng-tools, but i guess they all have havegd in them
<c0rnelius>
tools5 is the latest I believe
<stipa>
IgorPec: linux is not reliable for embedded stuff at all
<stipa>
the sad thing is that it'll be everywhere
<stipa>
or is everywhere already, it'll just get worse
<rhagu>
stipa, I dont think you are right on this one, haveged and rng-tools retrieve their entropy from different sources
<IgorPec>
stipe: you are embedded software expert?
<stipa>
how to squeeze some money out of it all to fix bugs on time i have no idea
<IgorPec>
its your problem. you will figure out
<IgorPec>
i am satisfied
<stipa>
if you ask me, having raspberry pi automating stuff around is a long time joke
<stipa>
but i hope
<stipa>
i knew that long time before i came here
<stipa>
it's not the money that is the problem, it's stupdity
<IgorPec>
rpi is a toy
<IgorPec>
stupidy is well present in our society
<stipa>
and stupidity paired with buggy firmwares is not easy to fix
<stipa>
i'm not afraid, i'll hack something
<stipa>
but those who don't know how will suffer big time
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<stipa>
nothing fucking works and it's getting worse
<stipa>
that's reality
<IgorPec>
so you will do something
<stipa>
yeah, i'll try to avoid shitty hardware
<stipa>
i've fixed computers as a teenager for free
<IgorPec>
wrong answer, because your hw will eventually broke down and become obsolete
<IgorPec>
i can pay certain amount of money for your problems, but there are limits my family budget can wistand in your spending
<stipa>
i don't have consumerism mind
<stipa>
i'm a producer
<IgorPec>
this is how users abuse open source
<IgorPec>
you live in consumer world
<stipa>
well, i can feel that
<stipa>
IgorPec: i know how consumers think
<IgorPec>
and most users act as they are here to consume free services
<stipa>
that's part of my job
<IgorPec>
i also know very well
<IgorPec>
its free, isn0t it
<stipa>
yeah
<stipa>
people who don+'t know what linux is, for them free is free of charge, yes
<IgorPec>
majorit, so those who are most expensive to help
<IgorPec>
helping them is killing the project
<stipa>
it think using "freedom" instead of "free" would help
<stipa>
like freedom software, not free software
<stipa>
free software is free of charge, that's obvious
<stipa>
for someone who doesn't know that free represents word freedom
<IgorPec>
those terms only a few of people understand
<IgorPec>
others see FREE
<IgorPec>
FREE everything
<IgorPec>
google is also FREE
<IgorPec>
facebook is FREE
<IgorPec>
today everything is FREE
<IgorPec>
we live in FREE time
<stipa>
yeah
<stipa>
that's the big part why linux dev is not respected more, people simply don't know
<stipa>
and those who do are mostly devs themselves
<stipa>
so, you're left with devs and people who think it's FREE
<Armbian-Discord>
<Johnny on Flame> people can't grasp what Linux is, nor more basic computer concepts, these more """abstract philosophicals""" will be quite hard to imprint on people's minds
<stipa>
Johnny on Flame i guess they all understand the concept of money
<IgorPec>
yes, they don't know, we try to educate them, which is again ... not ssomething we can afford
<IgorPec>
we are not a 10.000 people organisation
<Armbian-Discord>
<Johnny on Flame> I know... I am just voicing a bit of frustration :/
<IgorPec>
which is why i am trying to change relatinship into a trade. which they can understand
<IgorPec>
if you want something, give something. not necesarely money
<IgorPec>
gratitude, your time, respect, acknowledge, etc. just don't fucking dare to demand free service
<IgorPec>
and this most people do understand
<stipa>
right, you should push it more
<Armbian-Discord>
<Johnny on Flame> or at least a bug report you spent time on to make sure is reproducible and explains the problem domain decently
<stipa>
the fact is that people are never satisfied even when everything is perfect
<Armbian-Discord>
<Johnny on Flame> that's good - you shouldn't be, the problem I think is how people react to being unsatisfied
<stipa>
you notice the value of something only when you lose it
<stipa>
what had happened when support for boards dropped
<stipa>
everyone got scared :D
<stipa>
but, RPI became the part of the boards family, the new start