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<sunshavi> TheBug: r u still there?
<TRS-80> I am a little confused on the mapping of pine64 BOARDCON to a number of similarly named devices (none of which I own)?
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<TRS-80> OK one down: Armbian is dropping support for Pinebook Pro
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<TRS-80> 2 down: Armbian is dropping support for ROCKPro64
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> yoinks
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> i mean you could at least mentin the CSC part
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> and available within the build tool 🙂
<lanefu> TRS-80: really could use a little softer messaging
<lanefu> did we ever publish our doc about the support status's themslves
<TRS-80> That bit is in one of the linked threads
<TRS-80> But hey it catches attention and gets people talking. :)
<lanefu> yeah but there's nothing to explain that the code is still there for people to take over
<lanefu> and we'll still build debs
<lanefu> bwawfjewfaijwfiowfioafjnawf
* lanefu sighs
<lanefu> it comes off a little more take our ball and go home than, i'm leaving this ball right here for someone to pick up if they'd like to keep on playing
<TRS-80> Hey man I will barely get my laundry done, I already took one extra day off work today, but right back to the grind tomorrow, sorry didn't have time for anything better
<lanefu> gotcha
<TRS-80> I will field questions in the thread(s) in the coming days and clarify any misconeptions
<lanefu> thanks for doing the communications
<lanefu> sorry i was complainy
<TRS-80> I don't disagree with you, FWIW, but I think some urgency in a plea for help is not a bad thing, and IMHO more accurately communicates the actual state of affairs
<TRS-80> meanwhile poor Igor have been internalizing all the stress and we all know how that turns out lol
<lanefu> yep yep
<TRS-80> I was lamenting my own personal sorrows (read up a bit) re: soon to be unsupported boards, but I want to make it clear that I would rather that be the case than IgorPec (and/or rest of you guys) quitting altogether, which is something I worried about for a long time now
<TRS-80> in the past when help was asked (crowd funding), the community stepped up big time, so let's just get the word out and see what happens
<TRS-80> But now I am a bit confused as to relation of BOARDCONs of pine64, pineh64-b to some of PIN64 actual board models like PINE A64-LTS, A64(+), ROCK64, H64?
<TRS-80> lanefu: I will try and make these better (and then go back and edit first two) taking your comments into account.
<lanefu> :)
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<threenp> Hello! Question re the call for board maintainers: Is there a level of testing/feature-completeness/support expected or required for maintainers?
<threenp> Specifically, is it acceptable to say "desktop is out of scope for this board"? I would very much be up for taing over a bug or two., but I have very little interest in troubleshooting GPU drivers and desktop environments as I personally use these for server loads
<lanefu> threenp: great question.. lemme check my notes real quick and see if i have a good answer
<threenp> thanks!
<threenp> (and meant to say "a board or two" if that wasn't clear )
<threenp> yeah, came here after reading that
<lanefu> basically for "supported" status.. we only build "stable" images for CLI builds
<lanefu> so desktop will onl be nightly/periodic
<lanefu> so not really supported
<threenp> ah cool
<lanefu> now working with oeople to add in fixes is something to balance, but mostly the goal is have a person that can assure cli/server testing and stability and check for regretions, and coordinate with devs when teh internet gets angry and reports a legit problem
<threenp> and am i to take this as that debian is dropped in favor of ubuntu? personally that's the one thing i fins very unfortunate here, if that's the case
<TRS-80> threenp: That is WIP PR, pending volunteers stepping up
<threenp> Yeah I got that, just curious about the reason behind the current state
<lanefu> threenp: so support for all the different flavors remains in the build tool, has more to do with what images we publish on others behalf
<threenp> (Just posted the same question onthat GH issue gbefore joining here btw; just mentioned it now as it's related to the same topic, not menaing to chase ^^)
<threenp> like, why ubuntu over debian and not the other way around? should we consider debian "second-class" and ubuntu 'first-class"?
<TRS-80> NoWayMan.jpg
<TRS-80> at least, not that I am aware, unless something majorly changed
<lanefu> so make sure you were looking at CLI and not desktop
<lanefu> for desktop we're just sticking iwth ubuntu
<lanefu> for CLI *should still produce debian images
<TRS-80> Aren't there some Debian desktops, too? Or no longer (I guess probably we need more help there)?
<lanefu> the debian faction of armbian users are very opinionated and principled.. so frankly just producing barebones images is best
<lanefu> there are.. use hte build tool and make one
<TRS-80> I mean, weren't there some Debian desktops at some point?
<TRS-80> ok
<lanefu> yeah XFCE, but i think most of them build okay
<threenp> for example, odroid hc4 in this PR hs debian CLI dropped, only ubuntu images remaining
<threenp> If the intention is to have debian as CLI-only and ubuntu as desktop, that makes sense to me at least
<tinyweasel> so, uh, the cheapest SBC seems to be a RPI zero
<tinyweasel> surely there's a better option that has ethernet onboard, too
<tinyweasel> orange pi zero's prices have gone up, it feels like
<threenp> tinkerboard keeps buster (!) desktop but drops buster cli and bullseye cli
<lanefu> threenp: all that stuff can be fine tuned
<lanefu> we've been hella inconsistent on maintaining hte file, and kind of going iwth gut baesd on popularity
<lanefu> so don't overanalyze things as precedents
<lanefu> orangepione orangepioneplus used to be hella good deals
<lanefu> frankly oneplus was a steal
<threenp> ok, so the issues i brought up are not the outcome of some principled stance on those questions and more "current state due to circumstances; everything's up for change". if so that clarifies things a lot actually
<lanefu> but their inventory adn prices are all jacked
<lanefu> threenp: correct... what permutations we go for is easy to adjust.. it's more about supported vs not, and cli vs desktop
<TRS-80> and getting the word out on recent big changes, which is still in progress
<threenp> aight!
<lanefu> ex: personally i use bullseye on the HC4 :)
<TRS-80> threenp: So, what board(s) are you signing up to maintain? :)
<lanefu> nicod is publishing a video tomorrow where i uhhh talk a lot, but towards the end i hit on some of this stuff
<tinyweasel> waiting for the Official Armbian Foundation Zero board... not a clone of the rpi zero, I'm sure
<threenp> there's a handful of boards i could see myself maintaining but ideally i'd start with just one in order to get a feel for the process and not overcommit initially. so f there's someoverlap with what others are applying for, it would be one with less interest from others
<threenp> but def odroidc4. possibly nanopineo2black, nanopi-r4s/r2s/r2c, some rockpi
<lanefu> yeah.. we're purposely having a name ofr every signle device.. so that real testing is done
<lanefu> even if they're similar
<lanefu> so yeah... go slow :)
<threenp> Oh, and is there any need for help with ops/hosting/server maintenance? Don't see it mentioned anywhere but it's something I could be keen on if there's ned for it
<TRS-80> threenp: Out of those, look like nanopineo2black, nanopi-r2s, and various rockpi models are not currently spoken for right this moment.
<TRS-80> And lanefu is our devops guy, so you can talk to him about that ;)
<lanefu> yeah hosting in pretty good shape for now
<lanefu> how are you with ansible?
<threenp> ansible + terraform are bread and butter her ^^
<lanefu> haha okay yeah lets talk soon then
<lanefu> you in north america?
* lanefu always recruitng.. i need k8s + terraform people for $dayjob
<threenp> PM me anytime :) and other side! (Korea/Japan time)
<lanefu> :)
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<tinyweasel> 256GB of RAM... impressive and very fancy
<lanefu> :P
<archetech> good enough for Doom3
<stipa> it's a challenge to fill that up
<lanefu> i used to run a 80gig tmpfs for the armbian build cache lol
<stipa> and, how much of it got used?
<lanefu> quite a bit, but i switched it up to build vms for a few devs and github runners
<stipa> it's used to be shell accounts, now you get whole virtual machine for yourself...
<lanefu> yeah its a lanecloud perk lol
<stipa> well
<stipa> what else you can do with all that ram and cores
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<lanefu> we have a giant shared VM on igors build server as well
<lanefu> transcode MKVs i guess
<stipa> ha
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<c0rnelius> Well it is an old ass board.
* TRS-80 is still operating a Cubietruck lol
<TRS-80> new not necessarily better
<c0rnelius> To save ur selves a lot of trouble you could just have pulled from tobetter ->
<c0rnelius> I believe he even includes the overlays and bakes in the firmware for that board and works for hardkernel. I thinks?
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<c0rnelius> But yeah... I would have dropped it too.
<TRS-80> Well, that's one board. Not a general framework for supporting 100+
<TRS-80> I dunno, I think they are still pretty popular in some circles (gaming / emulation)? Hopefully someone steps up.
<c0rnelius> True. I believe he has the XU4, C2, H/C4, N2/+ baked in the source. I've only tested the C4 and N2s though.
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<TRS-80> Yeah some of those are almost the same thing. Few boards, anyway I think you got my point.
<TRS-80> It's the whole "unified experience" that makes Armbian useful. And attempt at mainlining as much as possible.
<c0rnelius> Of course. I follow his work as I use it mostly more my N2+ ->
<c0rnelius> more/for*
<c0rnelius> Saves on a lot of patching too. Less effort :)
<TRS-80> I guess if you follow that approach to its logical conclusion, you end up with Android?
<c0rnelius> I use my board headless
<c0rnelius> I use Android on my tablets and phones.
<c0rnelius> I mean, its basically just a patch set? I extracted it and as time goes on make adjustments as needed. But I tend to move forward and not stay on LTS releases.
<c0rnelius> Armbian of course is trying to appeal to the masses which is tough. So it makes sense to drop dead weight and focus on what you can.
<c0rnelius> I bet Dietpi will be dropping some boards soon :)
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<TRS-80> Not just them
<TRS-80> Who knows what will happen, maybe shaking the tree will cause some people to step up
<TRS-80> I would try if I had any time at all
<TRS-80> but back to the grind tomorrow
<c0rnelius> Or just create a larger divide?
<TRS-80> And if so, nothing of value was lost
<TRS-80> and sanity gained
<c0rnelius> Yeah.
<TRS-80> Many more people need Armbian than the other way around, so hopefully more will realize this and some good come out of it.
<TRS-80> Situation could not continue as it was.
<c0rnelius> I wouldn't mind helping, but the amount of boards supported and the large community always seemed like to much to me.
<TRS-80> You seem more knowledgeable in it than me, maybe start with one board you already know (perhaps one of ODROID ones we were discussing)?
<c0rnelius> Plus I have no interest in GUIs on SBCs which seemed like the approach Armbian was headed.
<TRS-80> I think you are certainly not alone in that, and from some discussions earlier I think desktop are not going to be a part of "Supported" burden on any board maintainers; always in additon to that.
<c0rnelius> I do alright. I got a lot of my patching from following Armbian and
<TRS-80> I think also by freeing up time that Igor & Co plan on moving to a more advisorial / teaching role where they can be able to spend a little more time working with up and coming developers maybe (don't want to speak for them, but seems logical)?
<c0rnelius> Makes sense.
<TRS-80> There was a good discussion about different levels of people/users and their differeing needs was where I got that basically. I think maybe it was in Contributors Lounge where we were discussing some of these iddues.
<TRS-80> issues
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<TRS-80> Cool! Just made :)
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<Armbian-Discord> <N​icoD> For those who don't visit the offtopic page. Here a video with Lanefu talking about Linux, Armbian and his gear.
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<lanefu> I shared TRS-80s pine forum post in the self-hosted discord
<stipa> lanefu: i'm wasting 20 minutes of my life watching video about you
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> It could have always been spent in worse ways
<stipa> idk, maybe
<IgorPec> you could watch mine ;)
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> Yeah spend 40 minutes and watch Igor too
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> Then replay one and use up the whole hour
<stipa> i've enjoyed watching video about IgorPec
<stipa> idk, it has just begun, maybe i'll change my mind
<Werner> well wasted time :)
<Armbian-Discord> <N​icoD> Maybe we should start making TikTok videos instead.
<lanefu> My attentionspan is already so low
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<stipa> tiktok is like TV for idiots
<stipa> nonsensical crap no one has any use of
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Yeah TikTok is epic cringe material
<[TheBug]> stipa: tell us how you really feel!
<stipa> tiktok is a proper waste of time
<stipa> well, it's just me, to some it's fine
<stipa> that's for people without goals in life from my POV
<stipa> lanefu: khadas boards look proper, i like the orientation and location of usb ports
<stipa> but agian. not good if you want to plug something in other ports if in usb ones are for example daul antenna usb wifi nics
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<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> Was it a waste of 20 min
<c0rnelius> Did you vote today :)
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> No on everything forever
<stipa> lanefu: almost
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> And write in "Mickey Mouse" for all elected positions
<c0rnelius> Just saying, in fucking Richmond the media is making things end of the world shit on tv about it all.
<stipa> just chill, we should all act together and work like one
<c0rnelius> I almost moved to Virginia from Maryland but then way like... nah. Back to Miami for awhile.
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> Yeah I voted
<stipa> c0rnelius: wherever i moved there was always something annoying
<stipa> it's a fact
<lanefu> Voted no to what ever casino grift they re pushing for too
<c0rnelius> I saw nothing wrong with Virginia per say, I think I just got tired of being up north. I wanted to move back to where the racism was more up front and you could see it coming. You know and walk the other way. :)
<c0rnelius> Although any time I drove threw it, I always noticed wrecked cars on the side of the road. :) Just stood out to me.
<lanefu> Richmond is an interesting blend of progressive and a sprinkling of old money conservative
<c0rnelius> Yeah
<c0rnelius> Sexy ladies too.
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<lanefu> Yeah good talent here
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<payano> Hello guys, I have a question. I have the odroid N2 board and I'm trying to install the image Armbian_21.08.1_Odroidn2_buster_current_5.10.60.img onto my board. I can't get it to boot though. There is only on partition created which is the linux file system, but there is no FAT32 partition. Is that expected?
<Armbian-Discord> <N​icoD> Yes that is normal.
<Armbian-Discord> <N​icoD> Only one fs is used with real Armbian.
<payano> And it works with petitboot?
<Armbian-Discord> <N​icoD> Try switching the button
<Armbian-Discord> <N​icoD> I don't use petitboot on it. So no idea.
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<payano> It doesn't boot if I change the setting on the switch. The screen just goes blank.
<payano> I can boot the ubuntu image from
<Armbian-Discord> <N​icoD> How did you write the image? Did you unpack it?
<payano> sudo dd if=Armbian_21.08.1_Odroidn2_buster_current_5.10.60.img of=/dev/sde bs=4096
<[TheBug]> no it won't work with petitboot as that is a hardkernel thing
<[TheBug]> I know on HC4 for example there is a SPI bypass button to get around this
<[TheBug]> I don't have an N2 my self so I would actually have to google to find if something similar exists for it
<[TheBug]> could also be a jumper
<Armbian-Discord> <N​icoD> Also a switch
<[TheBug]> archetech is usually the one to ask about N2 though, he is our resident Odroid N2 know-it-all
<lanefu> oh i can cover this.. "tobetter's image works with petitboot"
<payano> [TheBug]: Are you sure, I have vague memories that I could boot it with petitboot a couple of months ago.
<lanefu> there's a physical switch to toggle what it boots from
<payano> There is a switch on the back of the board, or the front, not where the hdmi,usb and power connector are.
<lanefu> petitbot uses kexec to try to boot linux from linux
<lanefu> and it doenst know how to read our image
<payano> I'm using emmc
<Armbian-Discord> <N​icoD> it's the switch on the back.
<payano> lanefu: Hmm.
<payano> Okay.
<archetech> yeah lanefu is right armbian would use uboot not petitboot
<archetech> switch goes toward sdcard reader
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<payano> Okay. Maybe I wrote the image wrong somehow then. The screen goes blank and my USB keyboard LED lights is not turned on.
<archetech> whileits booting you should see a red light and a flashing blue light got that
<archetech> if not the image isnt burned right most likely
<payano> I'll give it another try, thanks for your help. I'll be back tomorrow :) (I also checked the shasum of the image that i downloaded and it matched)
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