<ox1eef_>
adam12: IMO Python has a lot of users because it is the hot language for AI.
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<ox1eef_>
leftylink: Yes, you're right, never put all your eggs in one basket, and never become a one trick pony. It is important and a benefit to know more than one language, and have everything invested in it.
<wakaflaka>
didnt python get big way before ai? from what i understand ai is a recent phenomena
<wakaflaka>
phenoenon
<ox1eef_>
It has been on an upward trajectory for a while, yeah. But largely outside the web. And that's where Ruby is lacking.
<wakaflaka>
im guessing it can all be converted to ruby with relative ease
<wakaflaka>
most python devs have heard of ruby but never tried it :/
<ox1eef_>
I could be wrong, but I believe more academics use Python and apply their knowledge through Python. I don't think it is so easy to match Python. However, I have some hope that WebAssembly might open the Python ecosystem to everyone.
<wakaflaka>
its very easy to convert directly
<wakaflaka>
chatgpt wrote me a py2rb.rb instantly *zap* like that :)
<ox1eef_>
See if it can convert pytorch. Probably not. And I think it needs to be organic. Otherwise, how do you maintain a copy ? How do you improve something but not known the underlying ideas and logic ?
<wakaflaka>
it'd be awesome if that'd work
<ox1eef_>
I think you need people with a deep understanding of machine learning, AI, math, science. I believe Python has those people, and they contribute to a vibrant ecosystem that goes beyond the web.
<wakaflaka>
you can do it and submit a PR to raise awareness, despite whether or not it actually works :P
<wakaflaka>
at least they get to see how beautiful roobie is
<wakaflaka>
yep
<ox1eef_>
The main reason I don't learn Python is that I see it in a similar category as Ruby. A dynamic scripting language. I know one so why learn two.
<ox1eef_>
I'd rather spend that time on other languages in other categories.
<sarna>
"machine learning, math, science" - I think there's no point competing there, all languages have already lost to python
<sarna>
meanwhile I don't know why ruby kinda dropped the ball on unix scripting and cli apps.. it could easily smoke go if you'd be able to easily make standalone executables
<Shell>
do you want every executable to contain its own whole-ass ruby interpreter and all the libraries
<sarna>
that's the current state, right? and it's not even possible to do it like that unless you want to get your hands dirty
<Shell>
that's what it'd always be unless Ruby became a statically typed, non-dynamic language somehow.
<Shell>
which sounds like quite a different language to Ruby, the home of runtime metaprogramming.
<sarna>
maybe it's an unpopular opinion, but I quite like that ruby isn't popular in the hyped areas (AI, ML, whatever). it attracts a ton of ignorant newbies who only want to make big bux and are not interested in anything else (like actually learning anything)
<sarna>
how so? chciken scheme can make a static exe. you can make a static exe with lua. and I don't even mean a static exe - standalone would be just fine
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<Shell>
in that case you'd bundle an entire Ruby interpreter, the standard library, and all dependencies, into every executable.
<Shell>
iirc there's stuff like ruby-packer for doing that?
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<sarna>
yeah, and it's been dead for 3 years now
<Sampersand>
im back!
<Sampersand>
anything fun with 0.49 sarna? I've been doing lots more bugfixes
<Sampersand>
I'm only fixing things that ar eobviously bugs, and i also hide them behind compiler options so you can disable them and see the original glory of 0.49
<sarna>
Sampersand: I ran a fibonacci bench! 15 seconds on ruby 0.47, 1s on ruby 3.2, 0.2s on --yjit :D
<Sampersand>
hahaha
<sarna>
(naive fib(35))
<Sampersand>
we've come a ways
<sarna>
definitely
<sarna>
haven't had the time to check out how idiomatic retro ruby should actually look like
<Sampersand>
i've been writing some retro ruby code
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<tockitj>
sarna: AI and ML are not hype - this stuff is going to blow everyone out of the water. Changes there are tectonic. But what gives py credibility are simply libraries - with most languages it is like that, choice is driven by libraries/runtimes
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<tockitj>
even if for example R is better suited DSL for statistics - ML researchers will use py more often becouse of pytorch. pytorch is gateway to accelerated hw processing - ruby just does not have that in a nice way
<tockitj>
which is a pitty since one could write much more elegant DSL for ML in ruby than in py
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<tockitj>
and you get metaprogramming goodies and pure OO.. all of that is good stuff.. but if ML researchers can't access AI hw through ruby easily then they simply won't touch it
<ox1eef_>
You hear about AI. You want to get involved. You search around. You find Python is best placed. And so you choose Python. And ML reaearchers have applied their knowledge using Python. Google supported that effort. I don't think it has anything to do with Ruby as a language.
<ox1eef_>
Also, all the books about AI.. Machine learning.. They use Python.
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<CalimeroTeknik>
hello! how could I specify a custom class in here? YAML.load_file(file, permitted_classes: [Time, MyBot::IRCUser])
<CalimeroTeknik>
ruby 3.1 broke this code because it's more secure on this
<CalimeroTeknik>
I also wonder where to find the documentation for permitted_classes and if there isn't an alternative to disable this security feature
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<tockitj>
ox1eef_: exactly. It is unfortunate that we can't tap into that ecosystem. But yeah it became Python and R centric, there is significant moat around it rn.
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<tockitj>
ruby can neatly tap into REST APIs that different AI providers offer though. Cool DSLs can come up around that. However REST turnaround with GPT-3/4 is too long for actual business applications. Though as speed improves this will explode at some point.
<tockitj>
GPT response times will need to get few orders of magnitude faster. It will get there eventually - just not now.
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<ox1eef_>
I try to avoid the cloud as much as I can. If it I can't use it offline, outside the cloud, I'm far less likely to rely on it.
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<tockitj>
ox1eef_: unfortunately LLMs are going to be tied to large datacenters. Compute is getting concentrated in the cloud. Most common form of computers (phones) is used mostly for content consumption and they are fully dependant on cloud services
<tockitj>
In past 10 years or so focus shifted away from pcs to cloud I think
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<ox1eef_>
Yep. Agreed.
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