klange changed the topic of #osdev to: Operating System Development || Don't ask to ask---just ask! || For 3+ LoC, use a pastebin (for example https://gist.github.com/) || Stats + Old logs: http://osdev-logs.qzx.com New Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev || Visit https://wiki.osdev.org and https://forum.osdev.org || Books: https://wiki.osdev.org/Books
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<zid`> GOG-48, new kpop band
<gog> pog
<zid`> That's the A side single
<gog> what' sthe b-side
<zid`> cover of 'bring me to life'
<childlikempress> soooo true bestie
<childlikempress> also gog will get kicked out of her own band for doing drugs and having a wife
<zid`> secret wife scandal
<zid`> is authentic kpop experience
<gog> i have never done drugs
<gog> how dare you
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<childlikempress> oh...
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<childlikempress> i can fix that
<bslsk05> ​www.theregister.com: GCC 15 to 'undeprecate' Itanium support - for now • The Register
<zid`> guess they found a maintainer
<zid`> Someone has a cluster of itaniums running some banking software somewhere and volunteered one of their employees, would be my guess
<zid`> reading articles is for noobs, headlines only
<kof673> it was brought up here a week or two or three ago, there was a distro, not sure if that guy is the maintainer though
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<cross> The illumos debugger, `mdb`, has an output format it calls "jazzed" that will graphically show what bits of a given unsigned integer are set. It's very handy if you need to inspect, say, the contents of a machine register or page table or whatnot. I wrote a standalone program that implements the same functionality; some folks here may find it useful: https://github.com/dancrossnyc/jfmt
<bslsk05> ​dancrossnyc/jfmt - Jazzy format: like the output of `=j` from illumos/Solaris `mdb` (0 forks/5 stargazers/MIT)
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<zid`> I should remake my gdt tool and draw that diagram too
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<zid`> I forgot that I don't like parsing
<heat_> fuck parsing
<zid`> heat, wanna turn a string into some bytes in javascript for me?
<zid`> optional spaces, optional 0x
<heat_> fuck context free grammars
<heat_> nawh
<kof673> i suppose a funny person would make a "braille-like" "font" where each byte is shown as just 8 dots, either set or not (or 9 or 24 for portability ) :D call it domino :D
<heat_> that jfmt thing really is cute, shame they wrote it in rust
<heat_> i'm sure they have so many memory safety issues to worry about
<heat_> does no one think of the poor packagers
<heat_> https://i.imgur.com/n8APL5a.png not working super well because of some little issues but DNF!!!!
<bslsk05> ​i.imgur.com <no title>
<zid`> yea I wouldn't distribute little command line utils as rust
<zid`> it's a pain to use because of it
<zid`> perl, python3, bash, C, etc all significantly easier
<heat_> hmm actually this crate doesn't depend on anything else, just the std library, nice
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<Ermine> zero-dep crates are cool
<Ermine> ohnoes, linux has suspend issues again
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<heat_> suspend issues? no one has ever had those!
<zid`> on linux? wild
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<heat_> https://i.imgur.com/7ZEonSF.png wooooooooooo
<heat_> i don't know why it says bash-0 and bison-0 though, weird
<the_oz> maybe a scheme to get a monotonically increasing counter
<the_oz> so never have a nameclash
<zid`> slot 0?
<zid`> idk if whatever that is has slots
<heat_> Ermine, could you check with your opensuse thing if this is what you get?
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<Ermine> heat_: check what?
<Ermine> 0 seems like epoch number here
<heat_> basically if that little -0 shows up during package installs
<heat_> this is dnf5 which i think opensuse is using
<zid`> gentoo names things like that, but it does it for SLOTS
<Ermine> no, opensuse uses zypper
<Ermine> dnf is fedora
<the_oz> did not finish
<Ermine> (and freshly released fedora has dnf5)
<heat_> ah damn
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<Ermine> I think it's just bug in dnf5
<Ermine> like they don't check if epoch is 0 and print it anyway
<heat_> what's epoch?
<Ermine> https://rpm-software-management.github.io/rpm/manual/spec.html --- "Optional numerical value which can be used to override normal version-release sorting order. ... Non-existent epoch is exactly equal to zero epoch in all version comparisons."
<bslsk05> ​rpm-software-management.github.io: rpm.org - Spec file format
<heat_> ah okay
<Ermine> apkbuild and pkgbuild have this as well
<Ermine> you can notice that grub has epoch 2 in arch
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<heat_> i don't know why you'd ever want this considering you can just bump the pkg rel
<zid`> slots slots slots slots
<Ermine> if upstream changes its versioning scheme, and after like pkg 6.2 you get pkg-ng 1.0
<the_oz> gosh you degenerate zid`
<Ermine> maybe something similar happened when they gave up on grub1 and wrote grub2
<heat_> ah, i guess
<heat_> see, this is why i hate packaging
<heat_> zid`, hah that slots thing is cool
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<sortie> It's a good day if you compile a compiler, it's a better day if OpenBSD accused you of being on a holy war with only one member
<sortie> (me)
<kof673> explain :D
<geist> oooh
<geist> maybe theo will come to your house and personally insult you
<zid`> Sortie is the judge judy AND executioner
<geist> Judge Jonas
<sortie> “That seems like a holy war with one participant -- you. That war is to remove all defacto non-standardized things, right? Good luck with that!“ - Theo de Raadt
<sortie> Words to live by.
<geist> no shit huh? wow
<bslsk05> ​marc.info: 'Re: Miscellaneous LibreSSL portability fixes' - MARC
<zid`> Theo de Raadt is non-standard, so it's self-defence
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<sortie> Of course that is not my goal. I am trying to modernize things a bit though and remove some legacy cruft. But I do expand on the standard and do lots of non standard defacto stuff all the time.
<sortie> But you know, they do ship these packages as the -portable releases, yeah?
<geist> aside from the name calling it seems like a reasonable discussion that could have gone further
<geist> but then people have to do that
<zid`> idk how I feel about the mktemp change
<zid`> on one hand, I like not having gets() eerywhere, on the other hand, I don't like it when stuff stops working that used to work
<geist> yah i mean he probably has a point, etc
<zid`> hard relying on a very modern version of posix is in itself, a portability issue
<heat_> theo is many things, but he's not stupid
<sortie> Theo's technical points are good, I just don't like the unprofessional tone though
<geist> totes
<zid`> I think you read into it a little harshly, in this instance
<geist> though i guess one can (and probably should) just ignore it and keep going
<sortie> It looks like it's been a decade literally since I last sent my patches to them lol
<geist> but that's difficult
<heat_> you should try getting a random stray private email from him just from mentioning openbsd in the lkml
<heat_> he's a _lot_ more hostile
<sortie> <zid`> hard relying on a very modern version of posix is in itself, a portability issue
<sortie> ^ mkemp was obsolescent by 2001
<sortie> *mktemp
<heat_> guarantee you someone's running this on a 4.4BSD on the VAX
<sortie> heat_: libressl? no.
<sortie> openssh? yes.
<heat_> you sure about that?
<heat_> people have done worse, see: 2.11BSD
<heat_> buncha weirdos force the PDP-11 do to things it doesn't want to do
* geist feels attacked
<heat_> :D
<Ermine> Just take mbedtls and write libressl compat layer
<sortie> geist: I may not work here any longer but the Communicate With Care training is still drilled into me. I went for a shower after I got that email, let someone else reply, and then came back with a calm mind and replied professionally and kindly :)
<geist> yeah pretty much
<geist> it seeps into your core
<geist> i think it's why i keep trying to keep this channel friendly and nice
<sortie> Same
<sortie> Like that kind of email is not okay within my Sortix community
<sortie> SortixBSD is definitely the friendliest of the BSDs
<heat_> hmm, did jeff xu skip that training? :thinking:
<geist> it even has a friendly mascot which is a uh. thing
<geist> with 4 legs mostly
<sortie> heat_: If someone is not following the google code of conduct, you can bring that up
* geist tries to get gemini to generate a sortix -chan character
<sortie> You can join #sortix chan
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<gog> hi
<GeDaMo> agog :|
<brynet> sortie: looks like tb@'s reply was off-list, so you kinda threw him under the bus there, heh.
<gog> |:
<sortie> brynet: I totally only noticed that 30 seconds after replying whoops
<kof673> i would've done worse, c89 doesn't guarantee long long :D
<kof673> i would have allowed it, but not mandate it :D
<gog> long long long
<sortie> brynet: Hope I didn't cause much drama by accidentally leaking it. tb@ has been really nice to work with today
<Ermine> too long for gcc
<kof673> LLL was actually proposed for 128 or 256 or something by some ibm person IIRC
<brynet> probably fine
<sortie> geist: :D
<Ermine> nsfw sortix tan when
<sortie> geist: klange is that you
<gog> extra long
* geist is speaking through Gemini
<gog> :3
<geist> it's a Lain moment
<gog> why do they always have cat ears
<gog> why don't i have cat ears
<gog> :<
<geist> well i actually told it to do cat ears because of https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/CdeCQDhj/image.png
<GeDaMo> Why is it always cat ears and not, say, dog ears? :|
<sortie> Obviously catgirls are hotter
<gog> oh
<sortie> Is this where geist shows me out for inappropriate behavior muhahaha I am no longer beholden to the corp
<brynet> sortie: is a hackathon is Spain happening, so people are distracted with that, heh.
* brynet is a slacker, doesn't go to hackathons
<Ermine> gog with cat ears when
<kof673> i don't know the ear stuff, but you will note, cat's have croissants in their eyes
<kof673> *cats
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<geist> it could be a dog with pointed ears. or some sort of fox
<geist> sortie left some ambiguity there
<sortie> IT'S SORTIECAT
<bslsk05> ​www.theguardian.com: Days of the jackal: Canis aureus makes sudden tracks into western Europe | Mammals | The Guardian
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<heat> sortie, not sure what the google code of conduct is
<heat> there's an LKML code of conduct though, and that's reserved for the biggest assholes (kent overstreet)
<gog> there's a code of gogduct
* gog cralws into a duct and codes
<heat> is that reserved for the tightest assholes
<gog> hah
<gog> gotter
<gog> wait i'm 'er
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<zid`> What planet ARE you from? Stop being obtuse.
<zid`> This kent guy is funny
<heat> as long as you don't have to deal with him he's hilarious yeah
<zid`> Arguing against linus about whether a 1000 line patch should be taken as a bugfix
<heat> the real 10x developer
<zid`> (to a filesystem nobody uses)
<heat> sadly people do use it
<zid`> But not actually like, technical arguments
<zid`> just "I've been writing code for n years blah blah blah"
<zid`> I'm not 100% convinced he understands human speech
<Ermine> kent overstreet is bcachefs guy?
<heat> there's a really nice email chain of those, where he calls btrfs bad, and the btrfs replies with a nice speech on btrfs and being nice and working with people, and he just replies with "well maybe btrfs is bad? [...]"
<heat> yes
<heat> s/the btrfs/the btrfs guy/
<bslsk05> ​<heat*> there's a really nice email chain of those, where he calls btrfs bad, and the btrfs guy replies with a nice speech on btrfs and being nice and working with people, and he just replies with "well maybe btrfs is bad? [...]"
<zid`> > I'm not 100% convinced he understands human speech
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<heat> i'm 100% convinced he understands human speech but just chooses to be an asshole
<heat> you know, a cat but in human form
<zid`> heh
<zid`> I got more of a karen vibe tbh
<zid`> Where they can *hear* the cashier telling them there's no more ketchup, but that isn't the universe that they constructed in their head
<zid`> so they're going to plow on with the nonsensical decision to keep demanding ketchup
<zid`> "my code doesn't have bugs, ergo linus is just being stubborn, ergo I should just keep telling him that he's being stubborn"
<zid`> like, just, completely ignoring the other person exists
<zid`> which comes across like "doesn't understand human speech"
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