klange changed the topic of #osdev to: Operating System Development || Don't ask to ask---just ask! || For 3+ LoC, use a pastebin (for example https://gist.github.com/) || Stats + Old logs: http://osdev-logs.qzx.com New Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev || Visit https://wiki.osdev.org and https://forum.osdev.org || Books: https://wiki.osdev.org/Books
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<zijjgfs> i haven't written any uefi code yet, and when it first came out i thought it was an overcomplicated mess, but honestly it seems pretty logical?
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<heat> heavily depends on what you're looking at
<ring0_starr> having a dedicated fat32 boot partition eliminates the need for having to create a stage 2 bootloader for every single filesystem you might want to support, and in fact, just have the bios do the entire bootloading process because it's pretty booring anyway
<heat> the interfaces required by bootloaders are mostly okay
<ring0_starr> idk i'm just looking at some freebsd source and they got like a different stage 1 (stage 2 because they start at 0) for every different combination of MBR, GPT, EFI, ZFS, UFS, etc.
<ring0_starr> windows NT4 source is a similar story
<heat> dont speak about windows nt4 source
<heat> thanks
<ring0_starr> you got some kind of personal vendetta?
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<heat> i dont want to get sued or become unemployable by virtue of illegal IP leaks
<ring0_starr> lol
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<ring0_starr> there are so many reasons why that can't happen but w/e.
<ring0_starr> at first i thought you didn't want to have nt4 talk here because there are a number of reactos devs in the channel or something
<heat> there's a number of employed people working on various kernels
<heat> possibly reactos, i wouldn't know
* the_oz adds /boot/[gpt/ufs][zfs][fat32]boot
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* kof673 pats poor neglected nfs on the head
* kof673 washes hands afterwards j/k
<the_oz> I haven't looked at the state of things but isn't like "v3 ok, v4 everyone ignore it until it dies..."
<kof673> i just meant for booting...
<the_oz> yuck
<kof673> for freebsd, the kernel i believe can be loaded however, but then has to get root fs
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<SystemPrompt> you don't need a job that won't hire you because someone knew something about windows nt 4
<ring0_starr> you can have zfs as the boot filesystem ever since zfsldr.S got added
<ring0_starr> i have a problem with people calling ip leaks illegal too
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<ring0_starr> i can only speak for the U.S., but copyright infringement law has mostly civil remedies
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<ring0_starr> just because you can be sued for something doesn't make it "illegal"
<kof673> roughly, anciently, legal == formal, without regard to ethics either way, written law == spirit, may or may not be written pure legalism means you can only do things explicitly written, with the permission of major league baseball (j/k but an example -- only what is authorized). it is 180 of what "america" claimed to be, where "people" (versus "gov.") can do anything by default, and then "delegate"
<kof673> pure legal is: was jason wearing a hockey mask when he fired up the chainsaw? formalism
<kof673> looks good to me :D
<heat> illegal: not allowed by law
<heat> per the dictionary
<heat> not allowed by... copyright infringement law
<ring0_starr> IANAL but civil jurisprudence uses the theory of torts to ascribe blame to other parties when one party is caused damage, and is provided a remedy
<ring0_starr> it's on the plantiff to show damages, so even if they did something wrong with some IP, that's not necessarily going to get punished
<ring0_starr> with the 1978 copyright act they define some standard damage amounts for violations but illegal in my view means literally breaking the law, like you-shall-not-do-xyz
<kof673> ^^^ yes, that is closer to original
<ring0_starr> whereas IP law is more like a case of one party feels that they've been wronged and then go on this wild goose chase to prove it hurt them somehow
<ring0_starr> patent trolls and such depend mostly on intimidation to get settlements
<kof673> or pure formalism means, this dude stole the sheriff's badge, looks good to me :D
<kof673> he's got the costume....what's the problem? these are exaggerated examples, but that is where pure legalism leads to...entirely formal, all substance vanished
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<ring0_starr> ...all that being said, there is such a thing as criminal copyright infringement, when somebody distributes clearly stolen IP on a mass scale for the purpose of profiteering, which is what i'd consider actualy "illegal"
<ring0_starr> huh, AI qualifies as that
<ring0_starr> waiting for the FBI to raid sam altman's mansion like what happened to kim dotcom
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<zid> heat: why the fuck are the old EU4 DLCs still £17 each, I was watching some videos and wanted to play, but I guess not
<heat> haha
<heat> which ones?
<zid> I need.. winds, dharma, emp, levi, domi
<zid> Which is like, the price of two boxed games
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<zid> or do you mean videos
<heat> i meant dlcs
<zid> okay yea then ^
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<heat> hmm i'm just missing winds of change and domination
<heat> and some shitty immersion packs
<heat> but who cares about that
<zid> yea I skipped the packs
<bslsk05> ​store.steampowered.com: Europa Universalis IV: Ultimate Bundle on Steam
<zid> 80% off and I'd consider it
<heat> i have that same feeling but for HOI
<zid> I think for hoi I might consider the weird subscription
<zid> cus I'd have to start from
<zid> 0
<heat> every time i think "hey i should play it again" i see all the dlcs i'm missing
<heat> and i'm missing _a lot_ of dlcs and they tend to be really important
<zid> yea that's the point of the silly £7 subscription
<heat> really flesh out the shit bits of the typical paradox game post-launch
<zid> paradox games are now mmos
<zid> pay full price then pay £7/mo to play it
<heat> i want to mention that although ck3 is mostly playable without DLCs
<heat> there are 3 DLCs that cost 30 FUCKING EURO
<heat> EACH
<zid> rofl
<zid> they accidentally made hoi4, hoi5 and hoi6
<zid> and sold them as dlc
<zid> dlc should be horse armour
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<SystemPrompt> ring0_starr: he's above the law.
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<the_oz> "hmm 80% neat" *opens page* *has heart attack* I'll never pay for this game because 80% off means $200 wtf "Hmm 80% neat"
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<the_oz> oh for some reason it's 40% for me? Whatever
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<nikolar> KERNAL
<the_oz> mornin'
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<dinkelhacker> good morning!
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<dinkelhacker> Hm.. interesting it seems to be much faster to set a data watchpoint that triggers once a variable ha a vlaue then to have a normal breakpoint that only triggers when the variable has that value.
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<Ermine> i have nt4, nt5 and xp sources downloaded nonetheless
<Ermine> but it's reasonable for people to want to avoid MS lawyers
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<heat> weird thing to admit in an osdev channel
<heat> it's like the people that pop up in #coreboot with HEY GUYZ HERES NEW FIRMWARE LEAK I HOPE THIS HELPZ
<Ermine> yes
<Ermine> iirc there were people in nouveau that asked if nvidia source leaks would help
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<netbsduser`> the first rule of crime is you don't tell people you committed one
<netbsduser`> (i know it's not a crime but still)
<Ermine> but i like to brag about it
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<pog> i shot the sheriff
<heat> WHAT
<pog> it was in self-defense
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<nikolar> Ermine: i didn't even know all of those were leaked
<pog> there's also one for nt 3.51 that's on internet archive
<pog> idk how it hasn't been taken down
<pog> or whether it's legit
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<pog> i'm not gonna download it
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<dinkelhacker> Is MS actually going after people downloading these sources?
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<Ermine> nikolar: now you know
<nikolar> indeed
<Ermine> nikolar: nt4 and nt5 leaks are nowhere close to the full system though
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<nikolar> wasn't the xp one enough to rebuild the whole system
<ddevault> has anyone written anything up about what's involved in adding your OS as a target for rust?
<ddevault> plenty of resources on writing an OS in rust, but not as much about porting Rust to a new userspace
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<bslsk05> ​wiki.osdev.org: Porting Rust standard library - OSDev Wiki
<dinkelhacker> Don't get me started on Rust... so much regret...
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<heat> ddevault, i've screwed around with it, it's a PITA
<heat> for a unix-like it's much easier ofc
<heat> but you kind of need to interpose your own libc crate and stuff, it's super horrible
<Ermine> nikolar: xp is the closest one. the only missing bit is winlogon
<nikolar> interesting
<Ermine> ddevault: if you accomplish this, a blog post will be much appreciated
<ddevault> I knew it would be a PITA for sure
<nikolar> may i ask what you're porting it for
<ddevault> but yeah if I ever end up doing it I'll write something up
<ddevault> at the moment I'm just curious, but I thought about putting Rust in Bunnix userspace a while ago
<ddevault> Eventually™ I will write an OS for which it will make sense to port Rust
<heat> my rustc port had a bug where it seemed to unmap the whole program stack at startup :v
<heat> i never truly looked into it
<heat> should take care of it one day
<nikolar> it never makes sense to port rust :P
<ddevault> haha well
<nikolar> i know i certainly wouldn't bother, past the curiousity of whether i can get it to work
<heat> fedora already requires rust to compile the very base system
<heat> other distros will follow one day
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<Ermine> what parts of this base system require rust?
<heat> rpm crypto
<bslsk05> ​rpm-software-management/rpm-sequoia - An OpenPGP backend for rpm using Sequoia PGP (7 forks/14 stargazers/NOASSERTION)
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<Ermine> Oh
<Ermine> it uses nettle, which is written in C
<Ermine> top kek
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<nikolar> i doubt arch will use rust in pacman
<nikolar> for example
<nikolar> the fact that fedora is doing it means practically nothing for other distros
<heat> you dont need to use rust in pacman
<heat> rust *will* creep into some random crucial package
<heat> just like it has for rpm
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<Ermine> what fedora does influences other distros at the end of day
<heat> if you consider mesa part of the base system, it's already on every distro
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<Ermine> yikes, another yet volcano erupted in Iceland
<bslsk05> ​old.reddit.com: Blocked
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<Ermine> yeah, probably this one
<GeDaMo> Another day ending in 'y', another Icelandic volcano :P
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<childlikempress> gog: did you die in the volcano
<childlikempress> pls don't have died in the volcano🥺
<zid> everything is iceland eventually
<heat> gog's alive in the volcano
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<gog> y4es
<gog> i am in the volcano and verymuch not dead
<zid> too busy playing space age
<zid> lava will have to go around
<heat> gog did you bring a jacket
<heat> it gets cold at night
<heat> 🔥🔥
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<cloudowind> good you are still alive
<nikolar> Who is
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<Ermine> gog I guess
<childlikempress> but Ermine
<childlikempress> i'm gog
<childlikempress> and i'm dead!
<Ermine> you're not
<Ermine> and claiming you're gog is blasphemy
<geist> gog sinks into the lava with her arm reaching to the sky, making a thumbs up as the hand sinks below
<childlikempress> whaa?
<childlikempress> who do you think gog is if not me?
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* jjuran throws childlikempress a fishy
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* childlikempress chomp!
<childlikempress> :3
<Ermine> gog is gog
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<geist> huh interesting reading the qemu implementation of alpha PALcode
<bslsk05> ​gitlab.com: pal.S · master · QEMU / QEMU PALcode · GitLab
<geist> i had never looked into PALcode that much, but in retrospect opensbi for riscv is very similar in spirit
<geist> starting there and down you see a bunch of palcode entry points, which in alpha world are firmware calls to implement low level stuff
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<danlarkin> yeah, machine mode handling ecalls from supervisor is very similar for sure
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