klange changed the topic of #osdev to: Operating System Development || Don't ask to ask---just ask! || For 3+ LoC, use a pastebin (for example https://gist.github.com/) || Stats + Old logs: http://osdev-logs.qzx.com New Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev || Visit https://wiki.osdev.org and https://forum.osdev.org || Books: https://wiki.osdev.org/Books
<Ermine> re reiser: we joke here that he got enraged because she used windows
<geist> ahah
<heat> obviously she used btrfs
<Ermine> btw the lesson: if you use btrfs, stay away from bcachefs guy, esp. if you're woman
<heat> absolutely
<gog> what if you use ext4
<heat> jeff bonwick will beat you up
<heat> actually he'll just shoot you
<gog> neat
<heat> heat
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<bslsk05> ​www.trevorlasn.com: Just a moment...
<heat> did apple consider ini
<nikolar> that's old news lol
<nikolar> and the answer is nih
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<zid`> Considering ini is a crime in progress to most people
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<nikolar> also the apple thing is more of a proper programming language than just a config format
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<Ermine> they used to use xml for launchd
<Ermine> time to resend patchen
<zid`> Time to rescind their unix status
<nikolar> kek
<nikolar> but zid`, they are certified posix, while linux isn't
<zid`> no, they use xml
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<zid`> that's violating the spirit without violating the rules
<zid`> linux upholds the spirit but not the rules
<nikolar> kek
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<heat> linux also uses xml
<zid`> the only thing that uses xml on my system is gdb :(
<heat> libxml2 is a core system library for redhatware
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<heat> the most horrible shit is core software
<heat> like libxml2 and perl
<zid`> perl is fiine
<heat> and python and bash and how many language interpreters do we need again
<zid`> it's just python but way less obnoxious
<heat> perl is absolutely terrible, it's like "what if sed but language"
<heat> who thought that was a good idea?
<zid`> looks like x11-misc/shared-mimi-info also needs it
<zid`> and.. gettext? fuck
<heat> gettext and makeinfo are build deps for like half of FOSS software
<zid`> yea gettext is a real shitter
<zid`> worst til ever
<zid`> day ruined
<Ermine> but do we have alternatives to gettext?
<heat> gettext-tiny
<Ermine> smells minimal
<heat> which isn't _quite_ a replacement it seems, but works
<heat> yeah minimal
<heat> it's musl-ware fwiw
<Ermine> under the umbrella of sabotage linux
<heat> https://oliverkwebb.github.io/aboutme/ btw i found the oldest 15 year old ever
<bslsk05> ​oliverkwebb.github.io: Oliver Webb's Website
<heat> gnu bad, vim bloated, systemd shot my wife, toybox great, musl poggers, tcc, c++ was created by stalin, all the greatest hits
<heat> netbsd-curses - A implementation of ncurses that’s much smaller and less bloated.
<heat> oh yes
<Ermine> curses!
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<Ermine> But.. I'd have the same takes if 15yo me was into it
<zid`> is ncurses.. bloated?
<Ermine> ofc, it's gnu
<heat> ncurses is absolutely fine
<heat> it does the job of being the yuckiest glue layer for 4 quadrillion TERM types
<zid`> it has.. optional C++ bindings, optional ada bindings, docs, gpm support
<zid`> as use flags
<Ermine> curses library is not the hill I'd like to die on anyway
<zid`> nice from the packaging end at least
<zid`> idk what the code is like
<heat> don't worry Ermine, there are plenty of hills to die on
<zid`> but I assume horrendous but meaningfully horrendous
<heat> try debating in #musl
<nikolar> has anyone here even used curses for anything
<zid`> I have
<zid`> well, ncurses
<nikolar> yeah that's what i mean
<zid`> constantly?
<zid`> How else are you going to make things like nethack
<nikolar> well did you write your nethack
<zid`> I mean, I've written shitposts like it
<zid`> robot finds kitten is about my level of focus
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<zid`> it's mainly just wprintxy("blah", 10, 12) or whatever it was
<Ermine> literally everything TUI uses ncurses
<zid`> saves you having to spit out escape codes by hand, mainly, even if you're not bothered about weird terminals
<nikolar> by "using ncurses", i meant "written code that used ncurses"
<zid`> yes
<zid`> it's mainly just wprintxy("blah", 10, 12) or whatever it was
<zid`> you init it, tell it if you want raw keystrokes or not, done
<zid`> pretty nice ultimately
<heat> this keystroke is fookin raw
<nikolar> that's neat
<bslsk05> ​tldp.org: Hello World !!!
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<Ermine> impl can be simplified indeed if one throws away support for ancient terminals
<zid`> yea you could get pretty broad coverage using just terminfo's api to implement it yourself if you wanted
<zid`> and skip the ncurses part
<nikolar> neat
<zid`> It's real fuckin nice if you wanna make a game like nethack though, people can just telnet in with whatever TERM they want
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<zid`> and your code will work
<nikolar> true
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<heat> oh i forgot, libexpat is also a critical system library
<heat> two xml parsing libraries
<heat> it's great
<zid`> what's libexpat do
<zid`> I assume something to do with dirty foreigners
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<heat> it's just another xml parser
<nikolar> eww xml
<zid`> I do not have expat
<heat> i have it for cmake, dbus, gdb, git, polkit, python and certainly a bunch of others
<zid`> rip
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<Ermine> It's funny days when someone finds another vuln in expat
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<Ermine> git is not a base system though
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<heat> neither is cmake nor gdb yeah
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<heat> though cmake and git are really needed for basic build tools
<Ermine> gdb is kinda base system
<Ermine> some gui stuff uses that for crash analysis
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<Ermine> ubuntu thingie for "sorry, this program crashed, would you like to send report?" uses it
<Ermine> idk for systemd-coredump
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<heat> ew
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<Ermine> but it prints stack traces to journal
<heat> systemd does not depend on gdb
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<Ermine> so they can extract data by themselves
<heat> it may be that it just tries to exec gdb and keeps going if it cant
<heat> because coredumpctl can definitely invoke gdb
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<SupUser> wassup
<SupUser> anybody disecting any OS?
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<fedaykin> nope
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<muffin> How curious, Intel is calling Long Mode "IA-32e Mode"
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<zid`> They called it that a long time ago infact
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<heat> EM64T
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<zid`> We should collect a list of all the names intel came up with
<zid`> and microsoft and amd
<zid`> and how many of them are names people used to use for itanium, for bonus confusion purposes
<kof673> <skims backlog> > There are multiple implementations of the UNIX utilities in wide use, and I’m able to swap out them for each other to my hearts desire
<kof673> they have a point about vendor lock-in but.............
<kof673> i might as well say i have 200 covers of "baby got back" don't you love musical diversity? you can have any genre you want, but only this one song
<kof673> there has to be some more depth here
<kof673> you have 200 choices, why are you upset?
<kof673> i didn't see any rust comment either, not sure what to make of it :D
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<kof673> another way to say that, the illusion of choice can be used to destroy choice, like anything else, double-sided, needs something beyond simple binary "choice" or "no choice"
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<kof673> you don't have to worry about stalin, it is lenin's ghost you need to watch out for j/k
<nikolar> zid`: doesn't intel use ia-64 for both itanium and x86_64
<zid`> ia-64 is only itanium.. at the moment? not sure about in the past
<nikolar> ia-32 was definitely x86
<nikolar> i forgor what else they called x86_64
<zid`> EMT64 is the main one
<zid`> EM64T?
<zid`> yea EM64T
<zid`> and 32e is the 'mode' name
<zid`> rather than the arch
<zid`> (like x86 vs protected)
<zid`> ia-32 vs protected
<nikolar> makes sense
<heat> ia64 is itanium, intel 64 is x86_64
<zid`> oh right I forgot "intel 64"
<heat> or EM64T or IA-32e
<zid`> that's another one
<heat> anyway don't let this distract you from the fact that meow is part of the C specification
<zid`> and then binutils has its own fucking names, i386:x86_64 or whatever fucking nonsense
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<nikolar> heat: there is a slight chance that it was removed in the latest draft, the link I've sent was from an earlier one
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<heat> literally 1984
<nikolar> But yeah, very likely, we're stuck with meow and uwu
<zid`> to be fair, that won't be in the actual spec
<zid`> just the rfc
<heat> oh speaking of rfcs
<bslsk05> ​www.rfc-editor.org: RFC 9669: BPF Instruction Set Architecture (ISA)
<heat> which is also ecinnice
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<friedy> How can I dump every single register on aarch64?
<zid`> ?
<zid`> one by one?
<heat> get values and print?
<heat> do you mean "in qemu" or something
<zid`> attach debugger, type 'info registers', copy paste?
<friedy> I just want to copy all the values of every register to some location in memory?
<friedy> I'm in uboot
<zid`> write them there?
<zid`> mov [someaddr], somereg
<zid`> move [someaddr+4], somereg2
<zid`> etc
<friedy> Just to some buffer
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<zid`> do it then?
<friedy> Alright, seems pretty straightforward.
<heat> yeah get a struct registers { literally all of them; }, get in assembly, print
<bslsk05> ​github.com: psx/irq.asm at master · zid/psx · GitHub
<heat> though note that fetching registers "inline" is frequently a little useless, usually you want to get them as part of an exception stack frame or something
<heat> oh cute, very riscv, very demure
<zid`> it's mips, so yea
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<zid`> I could have found out what the compiler promised to preserve, but I was having a bear of a time with 'this environment is fucking with me' so I didn't risk it :P
<zid`> it destroys k0, but it's literally designed to be destroyed and nothing relies on it
<zid`> I could have pushed it but meh
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<kof673> that ebpf rfc notes "BPF is now considered a standalone term that does not stand for anything" or classic BPF versus extended
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<nikolar> Berkeley packet filter, was it?
<zid`> berkey plastic fork
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<heat> bong ping fuck
<kof673> yes. i'm not complaining, but multiply this by x-000 years and you have "law" lol they can't really go back and change all the prior references, chaos is eternal :D
<kof673> it was just meant "how do you get so many different x86-64 names?" this affects all fields lol
<zid`> and the ebpf is the electronic fork
<kof673> this is how lol
<kof673> ^
<zid`> it spins to help you with your noodles
<kof673> meanwhile, the cat will still have crescent moon in its eyes in 200 years most likely, there is something to be said for picture writing :D
<kof673> as long as it doesn't go extinct, you're good
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<Ermine> heat: wdym by long file names in initrd?
<heat> /this/is/a/really/long/path/such/that/it/goes/over/100/chars
<Ermine> aka prefix + name ?
<heat> pathname is a more correct designation yeah
<zid`> 8.3 for life
<Ermine> ziddos when
<heat> boros
<nikolar> zid`: so no directories then?
<heat> believe it or not, python paths can easily go over 100 chars
<heat> ./usr/lib/python3.10/distutils/command/__pycache__/install_headers.cpython-310.opt-1.pyc
<Ermine> And what do you get now?
<heat> what do i what?
<zid`> nikolar: nope just 8.3
<zid`> and it has to be 8 and 3, no 6.2
<zid`> FILEAAAATXT
<Ermine> now onyx just doesn't unpack this file or does it put it to the wrong place?
<heat> i dont remember what happens cuz i stopped trying
<heat> it's Generally Not A Problem because my initrds are generally small and just chainload the hard drive
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