<kof673>
my "shell" language will have "!" commands for things like: sleep # sleep, but might bail early sleep! # sleep the requested amount, retrying if needed until reached # i think ruby sort of used "!" vageuly similarly, and forth maybe too
<kof673>
*vaguely and by convention/idiom of naming things only, not enforced IIRC
<geist>
VMS DCL used it to show which lines to execute iirc
<kof673>
i should put a comment "the levar burton version" go the #@$$@# to sleep j/k
<kof673>
or i would use "!" for variants that might calculate "in-place" instead of storing a result to a new variable/etc.
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<zid`>
<geist> …
<zid`>
is that a suggestion for varargs?
<zid`>
very clever geist
<geist>
found a fun thing today that i hadn't considered, and is underspecced in ARM
<geist>
MPIDR_EL1 and MIDR_EL1 as read from nonsecure EL1 is an alias of VPIDR_EL2 and VIDR_EL2
<geist>
so. sure that makes sense. lets EL2 override that EL1 sees
<geist>
but... nothing at all says that the VP* ones are initialized to anything
<geist>
so if your core is booted in EL3 or EL2 you really should set it before dropping to EL1
<geist>
it just so happens that most PSCI implementations pre-set, but they dont' *have to*
<geist>
the PSCI spec really doesn't specify much about the initial state of teh cpu when you start it, so it's perfectly valid for most of the control bits and whatnot to be complete garbage as long as it can execute code
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<SupUser>
sup
<benlyn>
Daydreaming what would happen if we replaced dns and utf-8 with vector-paths drawn on touch screens and dht indexes of known paths with their contemporary replicators of cultural, vocal or executable knowledge helping eachother out with forgiving deviations in computationally similar path differences. Anyway that's the os i'm working on these days.
<zid`>
ah, a fever dream
<SupUser>
wym benlyn
<benlyn>
Lofty promise i know
<SupUser>
Have you thought about it further?
<SupUser>
You should call the ISP too.
<benlyn>
Worked on it vicariously for about eleven years to shape it.
<SupUser>
You don't have to do that by yourself technically...
<SupUser>
lol
<SupUser>
How much have you connected the system spec's to modern gaming encoding / delta encoding schemes already in your way?
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<benlyn>
Feel like it's more of an interface for instructing ai on a dimentional plane we can manouver on two dimentions. I've just started playing with vector quantization things, but honestly just feel like i'm sinking deeper into the dumb and dumber plot.
<Ermine>
geist: can someone ask arm to clarify spec?
<SupUser>
Guinness (World records books) would be the people to really ask iirc. They had a book for this kind of thing too.
<SupUser>
Otherwise if you're in the USA it's a woman thing only tbh (probably*).
<SupUser>
idk for other places... king
<benlyn>
fluid comms
<SupUser>
?
<SupUser>
There's still credit to be earned if you find it doesn't exist, I think. Personal gain maybe too...
<benlyn>
llms are forgiving in that they just bleed context to what you feed it, call it a feminine innovation if you will.
<SupUser>
I wasn't really joking.
<SupUser>
Logistics might be a secret too fwiw.
<benlyn>
paths computationally similar but computed on the edge would introduce similar "forgiving" fluid communications
<SupUser>
You could always present it to the patent office...
<SupUser>
or call them up and get an answer under oath.
<benlyn>
I have briefly talked to patent lawyers just turning sweaty from their pricing scale
<SupUser>
Telecommunications are real-time all around the world and back probably. Even over the internet it's the same.
<benlyn>
I want to have a proof of concept documented before handing in anything
<SupUser>
At least it is for 4,000mi +- from USA<->EU.
<benlyn>
Yeah, i fly that route frequent enough, and have a friend with a few patents who might try to row me across.
<benlyn>
Money would be nice. hmmm
<SupUser>
Ideas are what they work with at the patent office...
<SupUser>
I would write a brief ~paragraph about it and see what they say...
<benlyn>
Hm, sell to darpa…
<SupUser>
You shouldn't sell it to them, but maybe work for them, similarly, if it's an adoptable concept.
<benlyn>
Appreciate the encouragement
<SupUser>
Yeah, but keep your stuff unless you have a reason to sell it... Always go through a court for that too.
<SupUser>
Don't catch yourself in an evil villains threshold without preparing to sell your soul a little bit.
<benlyn>
yeah, i'm from the pear-runtime lore and they are on the encrypted messageing / surveilance contractor spectrum it seems
<SupUser>
u talking to me, benlyn?
<SupUser>
I might be ignored by someone...
<benlyn>
i think i am
<benlyn>
_with_ you
<SupUser>
It sounds like you're not out of your head yet the way you said it...
* SupUser
heh
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<SystemPrompt>
above I see two LLMs with too high sampling temperature talking to each other
<SupUser>
What's temp' in that context?
<SupUser>
I'm not that wrong, but they said contradictive things anyway... Idk anymore. Maybe.
<Ermine>
I've heard that once upon a time Siri and Cortana started to shit on each other, but seems like that was a joke piece of news
<SupUser>
You haven't seen videos of those guys making fun of people?
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<SystemPrompt>
temperature is randomness
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<SystemPrompt>
set it too low and it only picks safe words and writes boring sentences. set it too high and it makes no sense.
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<SystemPrompt>
The only thing I can do is to get a new phone for the car and I can get a new one in the morning and I'll be there in a few minutes to get the car to get it to you and see if I can get a new one for you to come over and get it for you tomorrow ← repeated presses on autocorrect. low temperature sampling is kind of like this.
<SupUser>
oh
<SupUser>
I went on because they said they had 11 years + didn't respond to the rest of the progress others have made w/ similar feats.
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<SupUser>
+ then there was that they're probably overthinking it so I said to simplify the process in their mind down to an idea and ask the appropriate people.
<SupUser>
Why put 11 years into something to be shut down and have nowhere to turn when you probably could ask and maybe they've even got the original idea... + the outro-punning.
<zid`>
idk why I am always surprised when people try to have conversations with a manic episode, but here we are
<heat>
linux kernel
<SupUser>
Honestly, I wanted to see how the model compared to real-time encoding that are in place already is all and I never got that... So here we are is right, zid`.
<SupUser>
to any/
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<SupUser>
sup guideX
<SupUser>
wytd heat?
<Ermine>
Microsoft Windows Operating System
<SupUser>
More UEFI
<SupUser>
Got MILK?
<heat>
Ermine, really sucks they haven't merged your patch yet
<SupUser>
u made a real patch, Ermine?
<SupUser>
Someone the other day said Linux didn't update in Oct'.
<SupUser>
That's fairly impressive, right?
<Ermine>
heat: they will hopefully
<guideX>
SupUser, good morning
<Ermine>
But in Onyx, your patches will never be left unattended!
<Ermine>
CONTRIBUTE TO ONYX
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<SupUser>
yo
<heat>
Ermine, facts.
<SupUser>
What do u do Ermine?
<Ermine>
I'm chit chatting in #osdev as you can see
<SupUser>
lolz
<SupUser>
I meant for dev'
<SupUser>
That patch was for Windows 11?
<Ermine>
No, that's for windows 12
* guideX
is drinking his energy drink and eating energy bar, trying to decide what todo with the rest of the day
<SupUser>
oh wth
<SupUser>
What can u tell about Win' 12?
<Ermine>
nothing
<Ermine>
NDA yk
<SupUser>
yea
<SupUser>
That's why I asked.
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<SupUser>
How's that combination work, guideX?
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<SupUser>
Got a link to Windows rules for rooting/admin'/slipstream/etc..? Ermine?
<Ermine>
what?
<SupUser>
Maybe a best course for admin'?
<Ermine>
no
<SupUser>
+ intro' to audio?
<Ermine>
no
<SupUser>
u can't get one?
<Ermine>
no
<SupUser>
There used to be a 4 part series on the audio stuff...
<SupUser>
Why the heck not?
<Ermine>
because the heck I've got to act professionally
<SupUser>
I figure you had that all pretty handily.
<SupUser>
I've got .net stuff, but maybe there's a thing or something u know is the best start, in practice?
<SupUser>
Over the years it seems the admin' certifications have been missing...
<SupUser>
It'd be nice to get to a Senior Admin' level somehow.
<SupUser>
You mean something by that act?
<SupUser>
Whereabouts are the news/webinars/forums heading?
<SupUser>
.. Does M$ do webinars?
<guideX>
SupUser, very good for running, and setting you up to have sustained energy all day
<guideX>
I have a cliff bar etc, with rolled oats, and a sugar free energydrink etc
<SupUser>
Alright.
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<Ermine>
What's multilib actually?
<clever>
Ermine: on arm32, ive seem multi-lib as an array of libgcc.a files
<clever>
built with thumb, and arm, and various optional features on and off
<Ermine>
well, I meant thingie that allows both x86_64 and x86 dynamically built binaries to work on x86_64 linux
<clever>
one problem ive had, was that my toolchain was built without multi-lib, so when targeting a thumb-only MCU, gcc went and linked an arm-only libgcc.a, and everything exploded :P
<clever>
ah, i have less experience with mixing x86-32 and x86-64, my distro seperates them in a vastly different way from normal
<clever>
but thinking on it, i have seen that a single gcc can target both, using -m32 or -m64 i think to swap
<clever>
so its likely more of the same, pre-build libgcc.a for 32bit and 64bit, and setup the library search paths and package manager to allow for libc.so on both
<clever>
i would assume most distros have all of that pre-configured
<heat>
Ermine, that's not multilib?
<Ermine>
Afaik it requires support from libc and its ld
<heat>
ah wait, i see what you mean
<heat>
yeah that's complicated and per-distro shit
<Ermine>
glibc has it, musl doesn't
<heat>
there are a couple of ways to do things. but e.g /usr/lib and /usr/lib64
<Ermine>
but idk what this support means
<heat>
is one of those
<heat>
i think it just entails knowing what the proper paths are
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<Ermine>
From what I think about it, binary has absolute path to its dynamic loader, right? And the loader should know all the paths then
<clever>
yeah
<clever>
clever@c2d ~ $ file /bin/ls
<clever>
/bin/ls: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.16, stripped
<clever>
ah, this "file" doesnt show what i wanted
<clever>
[nix-shell:~]$ file /bin/ls
<clever>
/bin/ls: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, interpreter /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2, for GNU/Linux 2.6.16, stripped
<heat>
wth is that first file?
<clever>
Ermine: with a newer version of file, it now reveals /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 on my gentoo box
<heat>
busybox file or something?
<clever>
heat: 5.19 vs 5.41
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<heat>
i've never seen >(uses shared libs) bfore
<clever>
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 19K Dec 19 2014 /usr/bin/file
<clever>
its a decade old :P
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<zid`>
# file `which file`
<zid`>
/usr/bin/file: ELF 64-bit LSB pie executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, interpreter /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2, for GNU/Linux 3.2.0, stripped
<zid`>
file file
<heat>
file file file file file fielf fielf efile
<heat>
damn your glibcs are super old huh?
<heat>
mine has >for GNU/Linux 4.4.0
<heat>
which i assume is the new minimum kernel version for reccent glibc
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<Ermine>
when I've last did lsb, they were specifying 3.2.0 as glibc target
<Ermine>
s/lsb/lfs/
<bslsk05>
<Ermine*> when I've last did lfs, they were specifying 3.2.0 as glibc target
<nortti>
I get 3.2.0 on debian testing (glibc 2.40-3) too
<heat>
hmm wondering what the criteria is, then
<zid`>
my glibc is 2.39-r6
<zid`>
I should updates my system
<heat>
oh, there's a tag in the ELF notes
<heat>
Displaying notes found in: .note.ABI-tag
<heat>
GNU 0x00000010 NT_GNU_ABI_TAG (ABI version tag)
<heat>
Owner Data size Description
<heat>
OS: Linux, ABI: 4.4.0
<zid`>
I also may not have rebuilt `file` in a while
<heat>
the fun part about gentoo is the RECOMPILING OF THE WORLD
<zid`>
python shuffling yay
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<zid`>
those reinstalls are mainly changing random python minor versions around
<clever>
heat: thats why i switched to nixos
<clever>
part of it
<heat>
why would you use gentoo if you're not into recompiling the whole fucking thing
<heat>
that's like using debian and not being into using broken, old software
<clever>
heat: nixos hashes the build directions, and uses that hash as a key to look into a public build cache
<clever>
so if your building things the same way, you get a free pre-built binary
<clever>
but if you change the directions in any way, it rebuilds it automatically
<heat>
sounds like a normal package manager, with extra steps
<clever>
heat: it recursively does this at every layer
<clever>
if something in libz changes, then every package depending on libz rebuilds
<zid`>
heat: it's much more that I don't give a shit
<zid`>
and I like having headers, use flags, etc
<zid`>
it's a trivial tradeoff for me
<zid`>
It's literally the only time I ever use more than 2 cores on this cpu :P
<clever>
heat: there is also the problem of packages in a packagemanager not having dependencies declared properly
<clever>
nix fixes that
<heat>
rpm does autodeps
<zid`>
That's like.. the most trivial thing in the world for a distro to do for you, if they're not doing that, wtf
<zid`>
"oops, bought a ford and they forgot to give me wheels"
<heat>
literally goes through your ELFs and sees so deps (and makes your package depend on _files_, not the package, ofc), goes through your scripts and sees the shebang, etc
<clever>
there is also the issue of auto detection of deps
<clever>
heat: yep, nix works the same way
<heat>
there are plenty of packages that are easy to forget as deps
<clever>
but nix has the added step, of not giving you anything you didnt ask for
<clever>
if you dont ask for curl, then youll never find libcurl.so
<zid`>
Clearly we should install everything as symlinks
<heat>
like, 'int main(){}' depends on glibc and libgcc, etc
<clever>
so you cant depend on curl
<zid`>
and when they're loaded, it starts your package manager, and downloads the file
<clever>
zid`: nix uses symlinks heavily, lol
<heat>
thanks windows
<zid`>
clever: okay?
<heat>
nix is the new arch linux btw
<zid`>
I said let's shoot the pope with a gun, and you focused on the "gun" part not the "shoot the pope" part
<clever>
lol
<zid`>
The point of the symlinks was to link to a .so that's actually just the package manager in disguise
<zid`>
that quickly curls the real .so then loads that instead
<heat>
didn't the windows python3.exe download the real python3 automatically?
<zid`>
possibly yea? Let's do that for an entire system.
<heat>
i vaguely remember that happening. there is at least a fake python3
<clever>
the example story i often give, is that i tried to install flash on my linux laptop many many years ago
<zid`>
I never had python on my machines, I never saw it until I used someone's random xp home
<zid`>
I always used pirated corp or whatever
<clever>
because gentoo, and i already had wget, i purged all traces of curl :P
<clever>
the flash install script, just used curl to download libflashplayer.so to the plugins folder
* zid`
102 of 288
<clever>
easy fix, just download it with wget :P
<clever>
firefox then segfaults
<heat>
i've also heard that autodownload thing applied to "other software" or "the whole fuckin thing"
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<heat>
i don't know where though. maybe the osdev forums? some random hobby os? i don't know
<zid`>
I think it might be a default feature of like, windows marketplace?
<zid`>
I've never used it
<clever>
reading forum threads at the time, i found users confused, and thinking wget corrupts the binary
<clever>
and using curl to download it magically fixes things
<heat>
it can definitely screw you over though
<clever>
the fix, wasnt using curl to download, the fix was installing curl :P
<zid`>
heat: Actually, fuck it, all programs are just web apps and your entire OS is just a browser
<heat>
BASED
<zid`>
now you don't need to install any packages, you just need the URL
<heat>
zid` just invented chromeos
<zid`>
which is basically a symlink
<zid`>
tim berners-lee got prior arted by symlinks, smh
<zid`>
heat: I just invented MAINFRAMES
<zid`>
(it's turtles all the way down)
<Ermine>
re python3.exe - built-in one opens python page at microsoft store
<Ermine>
iirc you can call python installed from python.org through py.exe
<Ermine>
or you can set %PATH%
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<zid`>
We've hit turbulence in the great rebuild, binutils is 138, gcc is 140
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<heat>
i've been hitting horrid problems building gcc in onyx
<heat>
which i believe stem from libstdc++'s build symlinking things all over the place + some funky bugz
<zid`>
good news, it works fine in gentoo, try that
<heat>
dumb osdever defeated by linux-using chad
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<vin>
Hi, I am trying to count reads per bank using perf but I notice I can only get events from a few banks (5 our of 16): https://ctxt.io/2/AAB45vuAEg Am I missing something?
<bslsk05>
ctxt.io: Context – share whatever you see with others in seconds
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<Ermine>
as dalias could say, it happens to work in gentoo
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<zid`>
oh wondered why my youtube video was taking a second to pause, cmake was compiling
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* Ermine
wants to build gcc on his phone to stress test android scheduler
<zid`>
isn't building gcc like the least interesting task ever for a sched?
<heat>
depends on what you're trying to stress
<kof673>
> i've also heard that autodownload thing applied to "other software" or "the whole fuckin thing" at some point windows stuff there was a large shift from full installers to "just download what you need" because always-on high-speed internet was more assumable i suppose
<kof673>
not the same but, there was definitely a shift
<heat>
ugh, it's really awful to debug any sort of MMU mappings in qemu when you're running KASAN
<heat>
you have a huge 16TB region full of 4KB mappings that mostly all point to the same page
<kof673>
*installer requires internet to download and install the program, versus a single "setup.exe" file that is self-contained
<zid`>
Lol, c++ was compiling, 16 threads using a gig each, cc1plus, then I see x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-cc1 or whatever for next build and they're all using 300MB
<zid`>
In other news, my system update that I hadn't done in like, 6 months, is done
<zid`>
Just pretend I had 1mbit dsl and it was just as fast ;)
<nikolar>
Kek
<nikolar>
Except that you're using wsl and have basically nothing installed :P
<zid`>
I have.. a fair amount?
<zid`>
it does opengl and stuff!
<zid`>
(mesa was the last thing it built)
<zid`>
It's not a fatty system but it has a few hundred packages, still
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<Ermine>
oh, s/gcc/cmake/
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* geist
yawns
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<heat>
geist, have you found a workaround for qemu info tlb just fuckin dying when KASAN is in town?
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<geist>
heat: on x86 i guess?
<geist>
and no i have no idea. how does it fall over? is it because there's too many tlb regions for it?
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<heat>
yeah
<heat>
but i just realized i may get away with having this bonkers mapping
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<heat>
i'm basically mapping the same page table structure (literally the same page tables, ptes, whatever) over the KASAN mapping, then poking holes. with my new changes of statically allocating 1/8th of ram for the linear map, it may just be possible to ditch this idea
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<heat>
but basically qemu doesn't think it's too fun to iterate through 8TB of mappings
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<heat>
i suck at git branches
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<heat>
step 1) create feature branch step 2) "oh i should fix this thing" 3) ... 4) my feature branch has now a hodgepodge of unrelated features
<Ermine>
that's how you turn git into git'ar hero
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