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<muffin>
Anyone know how ACPI OSPM is supposed to flush disk caches before entering S5 state? There's nothing I could find in the ACPI spec about that.
<muffin>
Does that even matter if I don't have device drivers yet?
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<sortie>
geist: 100% what you say about niceness. I didn't think of it that way but it's a good point. Also, honestly, being nice to work with is a prerequisite for having a career.
<sortie>
I mean at my old office I would say that half of the people, I didn't really click with, but there always was a good baseline of decency and being considered part of the community
<sortie>
But a lot of it is also what you tolerate
<sortie>
Part of why I haven't upstreamed many of my patches was also ... dealing with all the upstreams.
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<sortie>
Who wants to pay me for making vim cross-compile out of the box
<heat>
my vim cross compiles just fine?
<sortie>
You have to set a bunch of cache variables for it
<heat>
sgtm
<sortie>
It's better if packages assume the best by default, otherwise you end up having to set endless cache variables to just say that you're not a buggy obscure system
<kof673>
sympathy for the autoconf devil?
<heat>
if packages assume the best by default they might also silently break systems
<heat>
e.g autoconf will see a epoll_create symbol for onyx but you'll get ENOSYS'd :)
<sortie>
That sounds like you're the one fucking up. Don't provide functions if they don't work. If you do, the burden is on you to set the cache variables to say you're a buggy OS.
<heat>
it's quite easy to provide a function that doesn't work
<sortie>
Yeah. So don't do it.
<heat>
try a new glibc on an old kernel
<heat>
or a new glibc on a new kernel with a seccomp filter on top :)
<sortie>
Yeah but if you're cross-compiling, the best you can do is to assume it's a modern gcc, if the user hasn't said it's and old one explicitly
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<sortie>
Or just catch ENOSYS at runtime
<sortie>
https://github.com/vim/vim/pull/15983 ← Doing the lord's work making cross-compilation easier. Previously I had to tell vim that toupper(3) works.
<bslsk05>
github.com: Assume features work when cross-compiling. by sortie · Pull Request #15983 · vim/vim · GitHub
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<kof673>
> but you'll get ENOSYS'd yes, and this means to test autoconf-like, requires being able to run test programs on the target
<kof673>
or that someone pre-made a configuration already
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<SystemPrompt>
autoconf was designed to detect all the systems in existence at the time they made autoconf, and sometimes gets updated with new ones; it's not designed to detect every possible syste
<SystemPrompt>
it has a more than negligible chance of detecting unknown systems correctly but who knows for sure
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<kof673>
i just meant you need a toolchain + a way to run programs on the target for that style
<kof673>
"wisdom is double-sided" so i mean, you could support either mode perhaps, but more complicated, and then bomb if someone did not already write a configuration for the target
<kof673>
*bomb if do not have a way to run a test program on the target from script
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<heat>
sortie, gosh system bootstrap is horrible
<heat>
how do you enjoy this
<heat>
everything depends on everything else and libxml2 seems to be the most core piece of software there ever was
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<sortie>
heat: Because I'm awesome at it and I'm ready to pick a fight with whatever dictators I come across
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<sortie>
heat: Basically there's a set of core packages that you need to build the rest of them. You need to cross-compile that set at the very least. If you only got part of that set, you run into cyclic dependencies
<heat>
libassuan, libgcrypt, gnutls (yay two more tls/crypto libraries!), libksba, npth, openldap, CURL, FUSE, IMAGEMAGICK, LIBFUCKINGUSB, SQLITE, A MAIL TRANSPORT AGENT, TEX LIVE??!??!?!
<sortie>
Sure those are optional
<sortie>
A lot of those crazy optional dependencies are for tests or documentation
<sortie>
I was thinking of using GnuPG myself but now I just see that it depends on npth so you know it's bad
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<heat>
basically what im figuring out is that this is all hell and fedora's 4 or 5 stage bootstrap isn't all that bad
<sortie>
I'm confused by what you're doing lol
<sortie>
Because just do it single stagew
<heat>
bringing up a functioning system under onyx
<sortie>
I cross-compile everything and boom single stage
<sortie>
Then I recompile everything natively too, single stage too
<heat>
particularly this red hat software man, it depends on so much stuff
<heat>
dnf5 has optional systemd integration, optional gpg2 support, optional libfuckme support
<sortie>
Do you need a ports tree with a sane dependency graph that cross-compiles?
<heat>
rpm needs sqlite and properly done would also need RUST
<sortie>
Sure it's the rust package manager
<kof673>
*bsd used to e.g. not try to require perl or python for base system, but ..... :D other distros, not sure who does that anymore :D
<heat>
yeah.... basically 1/4 of the packages i have depend in some way shape or form on perl
<sortie>
perl and python are 100% in the set needed to rebuild the core of set ports
<sortie>
It was a sucky port but it was truly needed and happy I got through it
<kof673>
i'm talking kof era years/decade ago. this is not a criticism either, just without a rule...anything goes
<kof673>
i mean what is the criteria for e.g. deciding whether a rust dependency is ok or not?
<sortie>
Partially if you can get away with it and downstream pushback
<heat>
all dependencies are okay-ish if you dont need to bootstrap anything
<sortie>
I'll say that rust is __unacceptable__ in the core set of ports because it does not bootstrap
<heat>
if rust is already built and installed through rpm, rpm can now require rust to build
<kof673>
exactly. re: if someone else is building, binaries for end-user, will not even notice per se ^^^^
<sortie>
rpm is also only used by a distro
<heat>
no?
<sortie>
Different for perl that is used for everyone
<sortie>
So it still needs to bootstrap for everyone
<bslsk05>
github.com: patch 9.1.0837: cross-compiling has some issues · vim/vim@2cf145b · GitHub
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<nikolar>
neat
<zid`>
imagine being the maintainer for vim though
<sortie>
They have a really weird way of committing patches tho
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<kof673>
he died awhile ago Bram Moolenaar was a Dutch software engineer and activist who was the creator, maintainer, and benevolent dictator for life of Vim
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<heat>
is 1G ram for 4 cores too little for most builds?
<zid`>
for C I like a gig per thread, and for C++, 2-4
<heat>
yeah my onyx vm is struggling when it sees some actual C++
<heat>
1G for 4 cores kinda works juuuuuuust fine for C
<heat>
as soon as i get into the GNU gold bit of the binutils build it just booms