klange changed the topic of #osdev to: Operating System Development || Don't ask to ask---just ask! || For 3+ LoC, use a pastebin (for example https://gist.github.com/) || Stats + Old logs: http://osdev-logs.qzx.com New Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev || Visit https://wiki.osdev.org and https://forum.osdev.org || Books: https://wiki.osdev.org/Books
<karenw> Unfortunately this 10 year old HP brick is the only working laptop I own. I've got through two newer laptops that have eventually died since then, but this thing keeps on rolling. Slowly. And very warmly.
<Ermine> You may want to check the fans and thermal paste then
<zid`> laptops be warm
<zid`> and tbh, if they're full of bad fans and dust, they tend to be *cooler*
<zid`> because they throttle sooner as the heat can't escape the die
<heat> let me out
<zid`> GET IN THE HOTSPOT
* zid` shoves
<Ermine> Winter came, so my laptop is at 26C
voidah has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<zid`> winter comes early in mother russia
<zid`> it's still the start of autumn here
<heat> laptop at 26C? wtf
<heat> is your room temperature -40C
<zid`> one of them 10W socs maybe
<zid`> rather than the 30W PERFORMANCE PARTS
<zid`> Nxxxx sku
<zid`> rather than i5
<Ermine> heat: my sister opened the window wide for some reason
<heat> how many bears are in your house rn?
<Ermine> 1
<the_oz> lul
<zid`> the standard issue one
<zid`> that everybody has
<zid`> no extras
troseman has joined #osdev
troseman has quit [Client Quit]
gog has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
heat_ has joined #osdev
heat has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<geist> heh
heat_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
karenw has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
vdamewood has joined #osdev
Gooberpatrol66 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
Gooberpatrol66 has joined #osdev
ThinkT510 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
karenw has joined #osdev
ThinkT510 has joined #osdev
ThinkT510 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
ThinkT510 has joined #osdev
xenos1984 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
Gooberpatrol66 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
xenos1984 has joined #osdev
tyzef has joined #osdev
tyzef has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
Arthuria has quit [Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by Guest684531))]
Arthuria has joined #osdev
edr has quit [Quit: Leaving]
Arthuria has quit [Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by Guest684531))]
Arthuria has joined #osdev
Arthuria has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
Arthuria has joined #osdev
eluks has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
eluks has joined #osdev
vdamewood has quit [Quit: Life beckons]
Gooberpatrol66 has joined #osdev
tyzef has joined #osdev
Arthuria has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
steelswords94 has quit [Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat]
tyzef has quit [Quit: It was nice to meet you o/]
tyzef has joined #osdev
tyzef has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
beto has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
beto has joined #osdev
goliath has joined #osdev
netbsduser has joined #osdev
Fingel has quit [Quit: Fingel]
the_oz has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
vdamewood has joined #osdev
the_oz has joined #osdev
karenw has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
arminweigl has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
the_oz has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
theruran has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
jeaye has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
jeaye has joined #osdev
mavhq has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
getz has quit [Quit: A mystery...]
getz has joined #osdev
GeDaMo has joined #osdev
sauce has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
sauce has joined #osdev
tyzef has joined #osdev
theyneversleep has joined #osdev
getz- has joined #osdev
getz has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
tyzef has quit [Quit: WeeChat 3.8]
getz- is now known as getz
youcai has joined #osdev
lteichro has joined #osdev
getz- has joined #osdev
getz has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
Left_Turn has joined #osdev
edr has joined #osdev
hwpplayer1 has joined #osdev
freakazoid332 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
hwpplayer1 has quit [Quit: I'll be back later]
heat has joined #osdev
<bslsk05> ​thephd.dev: The Big Array Size Survey for C | The Pasture
<zid`> omg is it finally 1993
<heat> an operator for that? weird
<nikolar> wasn't the the guy who put meuw and uwu into the c standard
PapaFrog has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
PapaFrog has joined #osdev
<heat> alejandro colomar is the guy that had a huge court case in spain wrt walking naked in the street
<heat> no joke
steelswords94 has joined #osdev
<nikolar> is it the same alejandro colomar
<heat> yes
<nikolar> loller
<zid`> Sounds like a good qualification to be a C developer
<zid`> look at RMS
<nikolar> I doubt rms has written much of any code in the past couple of decades to be honest
<zid`> Yea but the image fits him, and he fits the image
<zid`> We should all aspire to be a dirty pervert
<heat> nikolar, wait wtf is that meuw and uwu thing
<bslsk05> ​www.iso-9899.info <no title>
<bslsk05> ​www.iso-9899.info <no title>
Bitweasil has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
<heat> oh god
<heat> oh god
<heat> oh no
<nikolar> indeed
<nikolar> btw as far as i am aware, there is still no implementation for embed
<zid`> okay uwu is taking the being a pervert TOO FAR
<zid`> also apparently the furry little animals he wants to have sex with are aardvarks, bluejays and cattle, til
<nikolar> that's the general consensus from what i can tell zid`
<nikolar> i haven't found a single person that like this lol
frkzoid has joined #osdev
Bitweasil has joined #osdev
<heat> why would you be a pervert in the C spec
<zid`> too pervertbrained
<heat> #if __has_include(<bigtits.h>)
<Ermine> hornyC vs holyC
<nikolar> i don't even know who let this happen
<GeDaMo> hentaiC :|
<Ermine> this is what happens to men during November
<_ngn> thats exactly why you should only code in haskell in november
<Ermine> and you definitely shouldn't code in rust in november
<heat> nikolar, the avg 65yr old C programmer doesn't know what uwu or owo mean
<nikolar> right
<nikolar> so it was just one retard who did this and everyone else was clueles
<nikolar> *clueless
<Ermine> heat: the avg 65yr old C programmer uses -ansi
<heat> /bin/c89
<Ermine> or this
<Ermine> How many tar formats are out there?
<heat> lots
<heat> GNU, usar, PAX
<heat> ustar/
<heat> *
<Ermine> gosh
<heat> if you want an ez contribution to the onyx kernel, you can fix my tar parsing to properly handle all that shit
<heat> long file names, etc
Left_Turn has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
Left_Turn has joined #osdev
<heat> cpio i think is a little nicer in that regard
<zid`> Can I fix the keyboard layout
<zid`> translate it to human
<heat> you can add a dynamically loadable keyboard layout format plus compiler plus various layouts, yes
<Ermine> a lot of stuff for an initrd...
<Ermine> you want to support every tar format?
<nikolar> i'd probably just stick to ustar or something and not bother with the others
<zid`> use zip
<zid`> it's your kernel your rules
<zid`> you're allowed to not copy linux
<Ermine> rar!
<zid`> no furries
<Ermine> and show winrar license notice on each boot after 40 days onyx is installed
<zid`> okay rar it is
<heat> Ermine, problem is that i don't support any of them well enough to be able to use e.g long file names
<heat> which are indeed needed when e.g python is loaded in the ramdisk
<heat> cpio might also be an acceptable approach, i haven't looked at it tbqh
goliath has quit [Quit: SIGSEGV]
<Ermine> now it's time to find the specs... gnu tar is probably in gnu tar(1) docs, ustar is probably in SUS, pax is probably in the same place...
<nikolar> zid`: if you were copying linux, you'd go with cpio
<nikolar> i can't remember if ustar supports long filenames
<nikolar> i think it does
Turn_Left has joined #osdev
<nikolar> i know pax and gnu do
theruran has joined #osdev
Left_Turn has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
getz- has quit [Quit: A mystery...]
getz has joined #osdev
<heat> rpm also uses cpio because it's BASED
pabs3 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
the_oz has joined #osdev
lteichro has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
pabs3 has joined #osdev
vdamewood has quit [Quit: Life beckons]
hwpplayer1 has joined #osdev
<netbsduser> nelemsof is a frightful name
<netbsduser> nitems frankly not that good either (why does this Dr. PhD think it's "BSD-style"? it's not in 4.4BSD)
<netbsduser> elementsof sounds nicer
goliath has joined #osdev
<heat> it's bsd-style because it's been a thing in openbsd since 2008 and freebsd since 2012
<heat> no one's actually referring to 4.4BSD because we're in 2024 and not 1994
<netbsduser> well netbsd is using __arraycount
steelswords94 has quit [Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat]
steelswords94 has joined #osdev
stolen has joined #osdev
Fingel has joined #osdev
hwpplayer1 has quit [Quit: I'll be back later]
gog has joined #osdev
pie_ has joined #osdev
Matt|home has quit [Quit: Matt|home]
hwpplayer1 has joined #osdev
floouuu has joined #osdev
<kof673> /bin/c89 i don't know how many of us there are, but we are surely not hard-coding for unix :D
hwpplayer1 has quit [Quit: I'll be back later]
hanemile_ is now known as hanemile
<kof673> those people get kicked out of c89 club
lh has joined #osdev
<heat> you can't invoke the compiler without unix/POSIX :v
mavhq has joined #osdev
yuiyukihira has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
yuiyukihira has joined #osdev
benlyn has joined #osdev
CapEnt has joined #osdev
<kof673> we shall defend our c89 island, whatever the cost may be. we shall invoke via variables in makefiles, we shall invoke via shell scripts, we shall invoke in the batch files and the DCL, we shall invoke in the CL; we shall never hardcode a unix path...
<heat> oh im not talking about a unix path
<heat> /bin/c89 isn't portable im pretty sure, but 'c89' is
<heat> well, c89 was, c99 was for POSIX 2011, new POSIX doesn't seem to have a c11 or whatever
* kof673 takes three shots of scotch at breakfast
danlarkin has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
danlarkin has joined #osdev
netbsduser` has joined #osdev
netbsduser has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
getz has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
Ermine has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
Ermine has joined #osdev
<Ermine> "pax physical layout shall be identical to the ustar format" huh? so pax == ustar?
<nortti> it's ustar, with the extra fields stored as special "file" entries
<nortti> (in contrast to gnu tar format, which adds stuff after the ustar header)
<Ermine> ah ok
<sortie> ustar files are subject to US export restrictions, be careful
<Ermine> sanctions again...
Gooberpatrol66 has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
GeDaMo has quit [Quit: 0wt 0f v0w3ls.]
getz has joined #osdev
Gooberpatrol66 has joined #osdev
steelswords94 has quit [Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat]
steelswords94 has joined #osdev
getz has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
hwpplayer1 has joined #osdev
hwpplayer1 has quit [Quit: I'll be back later]
<Ermine> all ustar fields are textual. Smells like Unix
<heat> yep. octal!
getz has joined #osdev
<nikolar> indeed
guideX has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<gog> ew unix smell
guideX has joined #osdev
melonai has quit [Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat]
<zid`> textual octal yum
<heat> sorry i dont use yum
<gog> there should be a drop-in replacement for yum called yuck
zetef has joined #osdev
zetef has quit [Client Quit]
<zid`> are you trying to yuck my yum
<zid`> my mother told me about people like you
<heat> dnf is an edging package manager
<heat> maybe that's what bleeding edge means
<zid`> she said to me "I know you like edging, but not everybody does, some will look down on you for it"
<geist> gasp i think there's a bug in netbsd 10 on sparc
<geist> seems my sparcstation 20 with 2 cores tends to deadlock after a while
<geist> i think it's in some sort of kernel locking issue
<geist> i think it's in the filesystem/vm/swap path
<heat> i have an awful bug in onyx i need to track down
<heat> im getting spurious ENOENTs
<heat> it seems to always be in the same files (for this particular build), so it might be findable with some patience and printks
<bslsk05> ​IRCCloud pastebin | Raw link: https://irccloud.com/pastebin/raw/NsPaaJOt
<geist> this time i had a nice report on the serial port
<heat> haha, kernel paging
<geist> i think the problem is the memfault_sun4m
<geist> i think it's faulting somewhere that recursing into the VM
<heat> right but i wouldn't be surprised if the netbsd kernel paged itself
<geist> dunno.
<geist> i *did* add a bunch of sticks of ram to it fairly recently (480MB, max is 512MB) so it's possible some of those are busted
<geist> and its getting bit flips in the kernel. i've also seen it just straight up lock up after a while
<nikolar> can't you run a memtest
<nikolar> also didn't know there were multicore/multiprocessor sparcstations heh
xenos1984 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<geist> good question, aside from the test in the firmware i dunno of anything except maybe some command line thing that pins some of the ram and tests it
<geist> nikolar: yeah sparcstation 10s and 20s and lots of ultrasparcs were SMP
<geist> ss20 you could put up to 4 cores in it, which is apparently a space heater, but pretty rare
<nikolar> don't they all need proprietary sun perihperals and usch
<geist> i have an ultra 10 (or is it a 5?) that is a dual ultrasparc 266 or something
<heat> how wouldn't you have SMP sparcstations
<heat> SMP was solaris' thing
<geist> 100%. until the later sparcstation ultra 40s or whatnot that switched to PCI
<nikolar> i kind of want to get one at some point, but i'd rather not need to track down random peripherals heh
<geist> i've had this sparcstation for years, cobbled it together from various parts
<nikolar> like i don't need a crt monitor just for a sparcstation
<geist> it's a big heavy pizzabox
<nikolar> i imagine so
<geist> i managed to find a 13w3 -> VGA adaptor and a LCD monitor that handles sync-on-green
<geist> the harder part is getting a sparc keyboard
<nikolar> that too
<geist> but without that you can just use the serial console. if they dont detect a keyboard at power on they just do serial console and it's fine
<nikolar> oh that's cool
<nikolar> can you still use the graphical output
<geist> in fact iirc the difference between a sparcstation 20 and a sparcserver 20 is whether or not it has a vid card populated
<geist> i guess so, dunno honestly
MrBonkers has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb2ubuntu0.1 - https://znc.in]
<geist> but ss20 is i think the beefiest of the sparcv8 machines (sun4m)
<geist> after that they went to sun4u which is sparcv9, 64bit, ultrsparcs, etc
<nikolar> when did they go 64 bit again
<nikolar> was it v8?
<geist> v9
<nikolar> or v9
<nikolar> ah ok
<geist> sparcv7 wasd the first gen, and i'm not sure those ever did SMP in workstations
<geist> sparcv8 was the later 32bit stuff
<geist> i forget precisely where the crossover is, but in sun terms they were
<geist> sun4<x>
<nikolar> right
<geist> https://wiki.debian.org/SunSparc has some blurbs about the sun4 stuff
<bslsk05> ​wiki.debian.org: SunSparc - Debian Wiki
netbsduser` has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
<geist> sun2 and sun3 were 68k based arches before
<nikolar> oh yeah that makes sense
<geist> anywya one thing that is nice about most sun hardware is it's usually built like a tank and very well designed
<geist> i think their later stuff where they started using commodity stuff was less good (blade 100, ultra 10, etc)
<geist> they were trying to compete with PCs by making cheaper stuff
<nikolar> well PCs were pushing into the high end market
<nikolar> so it was hard to compete
<geist> yep
<geist> the death of the unix workstation companies
<heat> look at what they did to my dear SGI
<nikolar> :(
<geist> i know, the google HQ is at the old SGI campus. B40-B43 is the old SGI campus
<geist> of course Meta occupies the Sun campus
<nikolar> eww meta
<heat> sun used to be at menlo?
<geist> yep. at least that was the big campus they built in the 90s and early 2000s i think
<geist> i think they built it while i was there
<nikolar> you worked at sun?
Gooberpatrol66 has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
<geist> nah but i mean while i was at bay area
<geist> they were a good place to work though i heard
xenos1984 has joined #osdev
<heat> probably
<heat> they did lots of funky shit
<geist> and just in general being nice people and interesting stuff and whatnot
<heat> java, solaris, nfs, sparc
Gooberpatrol66 has joined #osdev
<heat> i'd like to meet bill joy
<nikolar> yeah i would've loved to have worked there probably
<heat> but bill left fairly early
sortie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<nikolar> (except for java, screw java)
<geist> yah i only ever met jeff bonwick. he had come by apple to give a preso on ZFS
<geist> and then the FS team went out for dinner with him and some of his sun buddies
<geist> nice guy
the_oz has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<heat> was he carrying
<heat> i think he was doing small storage stuff. not sure if he's retired yet
<heat> >Co-President and Founder at iodyne
<heat> nope, still doing startups
<geist> yeah after sun
sortie has joined #osdev
<heat> "Jason is a Renaissance engineer who sees new market opportunities due to his breadth of knowledge and instinct for synthesis. He truly embraces change, happily creating or synthesizing several new technologies at once. He is also a joy to work with."
<geist> i think this must have been a week or two after the preso to apple by hans reiser
<heat> ah yes, linkedin, never change
<nikolar> ah yes, a completely meaningless blurb
<nikolar> thanks
<nikolar> geist: of reiserfs fame?
<geist> indeed
<nikolar> isn't he in prison
<heat> yes
<nikolar> ah
<geist> yep, but at the time i think he was essentially on the run. i think he got arrested not long after that. would have been like mid 2005
floouuu has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
<geist> so he may have already killed his wife at the time he talked to us
<heat> nah she died in 06
<geist> i think it took a while for them to build a case against him, and find the body, etc
<nikolar> well that's a fun thought
<geist> oh ah okay.
<geist> one little funs tory i can no longer tell. THANKS HEAT
<heat> :D
<nikolar> kek
<heat> >In 1998, while working in Saint Petersburg, Russia, Reiser reportedly arranged to meet a Russian woman he selected from a mail-order bride catalog.[15] Five months later, he married the pair's interpreter, Nina Sharanova
<heat> ah yes
<heat> norma relationship stuff
<heat> normal
<geist> makes sense. pick the one that speaks english
<nikolar> kek
<geist> he was fairly clearly on the spectrum. not that there's a problem with that of course
gog has quit [Quit: byee]
<geist> but it was pretty stereotypical not able to read the room, etc
<geist> i reember asking a question about something and he looked at me like i was a total idiot for even asking, etc
<nikolar> lol
<geist> like if you're trying to sell a product to a company (reiserfs 4) you usually would try to humor their questions, et
<zid`> have you met any other murderers
<zid`> or is that your only murderer story
<nikolar> lol
<geist> hmm good question
<geist> i suppose it's possible someone in high school or whatnot ended up murdering someone
<kof673> murderer meets you? <ducks and covers>
<heat> is it possible your question made him murder his wife?
<heat> maybe it was that stupid of a question
<zid`> ^
<nikolar> lel
<kof673> i need a t-shirt with blanka electrifying/bonus-stage-smashing a car "video games don't make people destroy cars, acpi makes people destroy cars"
gog has joined #osdev
<geist> yah probably
MrBonkers has joined #osdev
stolen has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
sskras has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
Ameisen_ has quit [Quit: Quitting]
MiningMarsh has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.9.1 - https://znc.in]
shan0 has joined #osdev
Ameisen has joined #osdev
MiningMarsh has joined #osdev
nohit has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
colona has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
thaumavorio has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in]
jeaye has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
nortti has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
shan has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
shan0 is now known as shan
kristinam has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
sskras has joined #osdev
colona has joined #osdev
benlyn has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
nohit has joined #osdev
nortti has joined #osdev
kristinam has joined #osdev
thaumavorio has joined #osdev
antranigv has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
antranigv has joined #osdev
theyneversleep has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
lanodan has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
lanodan has joined #osdev
gog is now known as fog
fog is now known as gog
jeaye has joined #osdev
Turn_Left has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]