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<nortti>
< sortie> zid`: Ah no framebuffer for links. Perhaps SDL or something might work. nortti did the port ← I did try my hand at a graphics backend for sortix display(1), but the combination of links not really having a concept of draw batches and display(1) being a compositor with no shared memory meant it was always too slow to use reasonably
<sortie>
:)
<sortie>
Draw batches?
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<nortti>
each draw call stands on its own, and the architecture assumes it'll take effect immediately, essentially
<nortti>
means you'd end up copying over the socket a lot of redundant in-progress frames
<sortie>
Right like a raw framebuffer
<nortti>
aye
<sortie>
So you can't ask it to draw
<sortie>
it'll be like "uh I already did that why would I have code to do it all over again"
<bslsk05>
discuss.haiku-os.org: Progress on porting Firefox - #192 by KENZ - Development - Haiku Community
<sortie>
Oh wow congrats to Haiku
<nortti>
< heat> for realsies though i don't think there's a hobby os (made by a single or very very small group of people) out there that has ran firefox ← back in the day there was a fair amount of firefox 2 ports to random platforms – I think something like skyos or syllable had one?
<nortti>
< heat> i think the managarm people got some other web browser working ← based on the screenshots on https://managarm.org/2023/12/31/end-of-year-update.html I think it's gnome web, unless the webkitgtk minibrowser UI has been gnomified since I last poked around with it
<bslsk05>
managarm.org: Managarm: End of 2023 Update
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<nortti>
oh and haiku did have firefox 2 too, back in the day
<kof673>
re: haiku. some iteration of mozilla had a beos port a long time ago
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<nikolar>
Lol so before it was called Firefox
<nikolar>
Neat
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<zid`>
I used firefox before it was firefox
<zid`>
but after it was netscape
<zid`>
it was just mozilla for a while
<zid`>
netscape too old for me even
<kof673>
well...my understanding is firefox at least started basically an alternate ui around prior code ^^^ netscape had "navigator" "communicator" browser versus all-in-one mail/chat/browser/html editor? ... https://www.seamonkey-project.org "SeaMonkey uses much of the same Mozilla Firefox source code" you can just build seamonkey alone still surely, and get relatively slim browser-only
<kof673>
"uses the same rendering engine and application platform as Mozilla Firefox" it is and has always been like that to my knowledge
<kof673>
to a point, maybe the add-ons were or are separate
<kof673>
seamonkey > Initial release date : January 30, 2006 that's deceptive! firefox 2004 1.0
<kof673>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Seamonkey (with lower-case m) has been the codename for the Mozilla Suite for some time, though it originally was
<kof673>
invented by Netscape management as a codename for the release later called Netscape 6 — they simply needed a "politically correct" version of the codename Buttmonkey
<kof673>
i don't nkow if the last part is true :D but that is more accurate
<kof673>
*know seamonkey was a codename so predates 2006 surely
<kof673>
and hence predates firefox in that sense
<kof673>
> "[seamonkey] uses the same rendering engine and application platform as Mozilla Firefox" that makes it sound backwards. firefox uses the same seamonkey base i think is more accurate :D
<kof673>
such is marketing
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<sortie>
Maintaining my init is difficult to be honest. Lots of states and state transitions and combinations of states, especially as I added service(8) that lets the sysadmin adjust the daemon graph at runtime.
<sortie>
It's kinda good old theoretical computer science problem where it's all about modeling it properly and exhaustively defining what happens in all the possibilities.
<sortie>
Definitely what appears to be working well for me is refactoring so the model is well defined and the logic kinda matches it, removing special cases, and keeping things as simple as possible
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<kof673>
(not related) someone is still working on dillo looks like, to some extent at least
<kof673>
netscape 6: > Initial release date : November 14, 2000 anyways :D so yes, firefox is really built on seamonkey code surely, not the other way around, despite name changes :D
<nikolar>
dillo is pretty active from what i know
<GeDaMo>
There's that new Ladybird browser, I don't know what state it's in
<sortie>
oh no it's a dependency ready count underflow
<sortie>
Anyone else got a directed edge and accidentally do the operation in the wrong direction lol
<heat>
what will happen to your glorious state machine once you rewrite large parts of it?
<sortie>
heat, init is funded by the big state lobby
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<heat>
sysv init is in favour of states' rights
<sortie>
I gotta admit messing around on my OS inside the GUI with service(8) feels really advanced and real-OS like
<sortie>
My font and graphics actually look sleek
<heat>
are you actually keeping display for 1.2?
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<kof673>
re: "dependencies" i don't expect to get that far, even in a vague sense, but building so many compilers...the question of ports/packaging arises. libraries (name and version number) alone seems insufficient when it can be compiled say with 3 optional dependencies.
<kof673>
you could just install libfoo_with_bar_baz_quux.so and treat them as a separate library, or install to a separate prefix/directory, etc.
<kof673>
but at some point you seem to need a real package manager
<kof673>
that would seemingly work with libtool and pkg-config, but ....
<kof673>
you are better off dlopen()ing yourself at run-time maybe
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<kof673>
if you allow non-linear arbitrary version number, you could use it like a bitmask i guess :D |1 |2 |4 but i don't think that is much better :D then you'd need to track those mappings for every possible library or feature/option
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<zid`>
heat: states' rights to what!?
<heat>
sysv init might've said some distasteful things back in the 60s
<sortie>
heat: Who knows what display turns into for 1.2
<sortie>
I kinda want to have my own gui thing but it's also way to much work to build a whole desktop environment experience of my own
<sortie>
And it wouldn't integrate with cool third party apps
<sortie>
heat: For the Sortix future, I'm maybe thinking wayland + gtk
<kof673>
you guys...you have to go back to circa 1854 before it went federal citizens only pretty much :D
<sortie>
I kinda like the gnome tech but not the experience
<heat>
sortie, yeah i mean it's probably okay to make it speak wayland
<heat>
but then the question is "how hard is it to write a good compositor" and the answer is probably "very"
<sortie>
I mean I def don't want to go the X route
<sortie>
idk something basic probably isn't too hard
<sortie>
Or I can port something
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<geist>
seems like writing a compositor is a fun challenge
<geist>
like the simple model of blatting a bunch of things together sounds fun and relatively simple, but i'm sure that only gets you a teensy bit of the way there
<geist>
and the real fun is all the shared memory, buffer management, dirty region management, keeping it parallel, etc
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<sortie>
geist: That's only the drawing parts. On top comes all of the input processing, routing, plus all the logic to lay out the desktop environment (which might be another process under wayland, unclear I forgot I might look it up).
<sortie>
Plus I'm sure applications needs a ton of stuff from the compositor probably to do things like cursor states and accessibility and what not I suppose
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<heat>
don't forget opengl and drm and all those fucking extensions and egl
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<heat>
gbm if you have nvidia!
<kof673>
then how to checkpoint/save restore sessions, or live migrate :D
<geist>
yeah i was thinking step 1 is do it entirely in software
<heat>
fwiw if you do it entirely in software you might struggle with adding proper hw accel support later on
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<heat>
i say _might_ because i've never written a compositor, only dabbled a bit in 2D graphics
<heat>
but it's probably easy to forget the nice solid abstractions you need for GPU support and just fuckin plot pixels
<sortie>
It's probably fine enough if you abstract way the draw operations so you can reasonable do them in whatever wayt
<Ermine>
heat: gbm is a common api
<heat>
i mean the abstract way is probably mesa llvmpipe
<Ermine>
it's nvidia which decided that eglstreams are cool
<heat>
oh yeah?
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<heat>
i have it backwards then
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<Ermine>
but now they're doing gbm anyway
<Ermine>
since their first open source release
<bl4ckb0ne>
Ermine: there's been a lot of work in the gbm architecture since then to accomodate them
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<Ermine>
bl4ckb0ne: oh, will know
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