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<Ermine>
actually, is there #osdev-offtopic ?
<zid>
#sortix
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<Ermine>
kinda suitable
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<cloudowind>
quite hey
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<geist>
there actually is
<geist>
i made it forever ago but no one ever joined
<geist>
forever ago we had one on freenode for a while
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<Matt|home>
i feel like having more than 4 nested structs in this code means i might be doing something wrong..... not sure what exactly yet though..
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<the_oz>
>things you wish x86 architecture thought before implementing paging
<the_oz>
"Am I wrong? ... No the world is wrong!"
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<cloudowind>
jummy page is right
<cloudowind>
jimmy
<cloudowind>
we used to do offtopic and trolling here years ago until geists kicks us hehe
<cloudowind>
there are thigns ive never forgot that ive seen here , one of them was a fellow fro uk gr00ber or something , one day he said the marriage is just guranteed p.... , after years of marriaege experience.. and i never forgotten this haha
<geist>
i gotta say this old ultrasparc is right in the sweet spot of old computer that's modern enough to let you do modern stuff with
<geist>
dual ultrasparc 297Mhz. 64bit, 2GB ram. reasonably modern but old enough to feel lik eit
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<nikolar>
cool
<nikolar>
wish i could get one :(
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<geist>
main downside is it's not terribly power efficient
<geist>
i think it's about 300W constant
<geist>
so i dont want to leave it on all the time
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<nikolar>
ah fair enough
<geist>
why i was surprised the pdp 11 only pulls about 80W
<geist>
but of course that's a later LSI model
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<netbsduser`>
i have lately been sold on the idea of doing page aging by scanning page tables rather than by a queue of mappings
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<netbsduser`>
it's an approach that sounds lousy and belonging to linux 2.2 at first but there's evidence to suggest it's good
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<nikolar>
geist: lsi ones are the models that integrate most of the cpu into two chips right
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<sortiecat>
https://sortix.org/os-test/ ← I just published os-test data for AIX 7.3. I got access to cfarm (previously: the gcc compile farm) so now I have access to a myriad of weird systems like AIX, macOS, solarism, and more
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<linkdd>
hello there. I was wondering regarding filesystem design, why it is not more common for directories to have actual data. A File System is a tree, leaf nodes are files, and non-leaf nodes are directories. But would it make sense for every node to be a file? Just like for HTTP, every URI point to a resource, I can GET /items, and I can GET /items/{id}. It feels logical to be able to `cat /foo` and `cat
<linkdd>
/foo/bar`. Are there existing filesystems that support this?
<nikolar>
oh hello
<linkdd>
nikolar: you're everywhere lol
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<nikolar>
lol we share two channels
<zid>
nothing's stopping you implementing that without changing the underlying fs at all anyway
<zid>
(and I think older filesystems did infact work that way)
<zid>
rather than having readdir they just gave you back "a.txt" \xfileseparator "b.txt", ...
<heat_>
yeah read redirecting to readdir would Just Work
<nikolar>
i think he means that directories could store arbitrary data
<nikolar>
instead of just the entries
<linkdd>
yes
<heat_>
you have to pay attention and realize that
<linkdd>
readdir is basically a query of the tree datastructure: "what are the children of this node"
<heat_>
a filesystem is not a REST API
<zid>
Nothing's stopping you doing that already, it just doesn't seem useful
<linkdd>
heat_: i was using the REST API as an analogy of "every node in the tree has data"
<zid>
it's both been done, and been moved away from, shrug
<linkdd>
zid: why wouldn't it be useful?
<heat_>
find a usecase for it
<heat_>
that's also not entirely confusing
<zid>
linkdd: It'd be easy to lose / conflate, and I don't see a use-case beyond readdir
<bslsk05>
ibb.co: Screenshot-2024-11-15-175106 hosted at ImgBB — ImgBB
<zid>
I can tab indent my file list already
<nikolar>
kek
<zid>
(more ACID than REST)
<linkdd>
it would seem that Redox OS and Plan 9 use the "everything is a URL" instead of "everything is a file", and the open/read/write calls are redirected to the daemon implementing the URL's scheme
<linkdd>
so `cat http://...` would call the `http` daemon
<linkdd>
which means i could have a `cat myweirdfs://foo cat myweirdfs://foo/bar`
<heat_>
you can already do that with linux
<heat_>
nfs is a pretty fucking weird filesystem :P
<linkdd>
with a fuse filesystem ? i guess that should be possible yes
<nikolar>
everything is a url is basically equivalent to everything is a file
<nikolar>
you just prefix it with the desired handler instead of looking up via the mountpoint
<heat_>
with a fuse filesystem, with a kernel resident fs, anything is possible really
<heat_>
File: /proc/kcore
<heat_>
Size: 140737471590400
<nikolar>
i am pretty sure there's a fuse httpfs or something around
<linkdd>
nikolar: yes of course, it's a matter of "what character do i use in my path"
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<nikolar>
> Rumour has it that the PDP-11/74 was cancelled, as that machine was a threat to the new announced VAX machines. The PDP-11/74 outperformed the VAX!
<nikolar>
heh
<geist>
yeah supposedly there were one or two of them made
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<geist>
it debunks the 'would beat the vax' theory
<geist>
mostly it'd be expensive to make and whatnot
<nikolar>
i mean i wouldn't be surprised if it actually beat vaxen at something
<nikolar>
huh it's not loading
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<gog>
so in this case
<gog>
the anti-vaxers were wrong
* gog
vanishes again
<geist>
i read somewhere that the pdp 11/93 which was the fastest one ever released ran about 1 VUP
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<heat_>
geist
<heat_>
GREETINGS
<heat_>
btw #osdev-offtopic existed and turned at some point in time into #offtopia i'm pretty sure
<heat_>
now #osdev-offtopic is #osdev
<geist>
oh huh
<geist>
i had no idea #offtopia existed
<gog>
i haven't done any bare metal hacking in a bit :(
<gog>
ngl work is kinda sapping all of my programmer juice
<zid>
advent of code too soon to write any code
<geist>
yeha i hate it when that happens
<zid>
geist is in cowboy mode again
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<heat_>
rememberthealamode
<geist>
whatyou say!
<gog>
the good news is i think we've eliminated a huge amount of the surface problems finally
<nortti>
geist: you were invited over there when we moved in like 2017, iirc you didn't see a point of being on the channel if it was no longer osdev-affiliated
<geist>
ah i really dont remember but maybe i was in a mood at the time
<gog>
the bad news is we're now working more with the problems in depth
<gog>
at least twice a week my boss and i have a long bitch session about the god-awful code we had to trudge into to make a featre
<linkdd>
gog: i got a job in devops so that i could enjoy programming in my free time again
<linkdd>
turns out you get a lot of free time when you automate most of your job
<zid>
That's why you should delete it all and rewrite it, so now it's god-awful code that *you* wrote
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<nikolar>
linkdd: kek i get you
<nikolar>
and i wrote a good portion of our current infrastructire
<the_oz_>
trick the client into wanting a feature you've already developed
<linkdd>
no need to trick him
<the_oz_>
it's inevitable, so least effort it
<nikolar>
lol my boss is pretty busy so he doesn't check up on me too often
<nikolar>
i usually finish pretty quickly and he doesn't reply for like half a day
<cloudowind>
ive had many bosses until this age but after my 40ishes my real and mean boss became my hemmies , they do decide what i will eat where i will eat what i will drink what will i do , how much i am going to sit that day and how much i will walk
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