klange changed the topic of #osdev to: Operating System Development || Don't ask to ask---just ask! || For 3+ LoC, use a pastebin (for example https://gist.github.com/) || Stats + Old logs: http://osdev-logs.qzx.com New Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev || Visit https://wiki.osdev.org and https://forum.osdev.org || Books: https://wiki.osdev.org/Books
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<Ermine> heat: rpm 4.20 got released
<nikolar> 4.20
<nikolar> nice
<Ermine> also xfce 4.20 is going to be released soon
<netbsduser> there was an RPM 5, why are we back to RPM 4
<netbsduser> http://rpm5.org looks like we are up to 5.3.6
<bslsk05> ​rpm5.org: rpm package manager
<Ermine> seems like fork
<Ermine> https://rpm.org/ is rpm site
<bslsk05> ​rpm.org: rpm.org - Home
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<bslsk05> ​www.phoronix.com: GCC 15 Un-Deprecates Itanium IA-64 Linux Support - Phoronix
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<Ermine> unthinkable has happen
<heat_> omg
<heat_> hahahahahahaha
<heat_> the ps3 hard drive broken linux bad guy is "maintaining ia64 gcc"
<kof673> > Code Therapy w/ René Rebe. @MoreReneRebe. 41K subscribers•1K videos. ⚠ ... Watch kernel developer rebase IA-64, PowerPC64, RISCV-V and x86-64 patches!
<kof673> dr phil for code j/k
<kof673> https://t2sde.org/#news-2023-12-05 we are committed to support ia-64 for at least another decade or two
<bslsk05> ​t2sde.org: T2 SDE - The Open System Development Environment
<kof673> that seems to mean you can still get paid support as well for t2 :D
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<Ermine> heat_: you just have to upgrade your rpm
<Ermine> and release onyx 6.9
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<heat> Ermine, not sure if i can do that without stumbling on other problems
<heat> namely rpm's rust crypto thingy
<nikolar> ew
<Ermine> eh
<heat> dont worry nikolar, rpm 5 will be written in C++
<heat> your favourite lang
<nikolar> isn't it already written in c++
<heat> 4.20 isn't
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<heat> as far as I understand, at least
<nikolar> i mean, rpm 5 branch already exists
<nikolar> i think i've looked into it the last time you mentioned rpm
<heat> yes
<heat> but no rpm 5 release yet
<zid`> yea but no but yea but no but yea but no but fuck rpm
<heat> fuck portage
<heat> emerge my balls
<Ermine> ^
<zid`> emerge being written in python is so fucked :(
<zid`> rpm in C++ vs emerge in python
<zid`> It's like your horror story from the other day
<heat> i think apt is in C?
<heat> + dpkg
<nikolar> heat: pretty sure apt isn't in c
<heat> haha dpkg has C++
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<heat> ah yes apt is also in C++
<heat> you know what they say, god is a C++ programmer
<nikolar> they most certainly don't say that
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<heat> core system stuff written in python is actually not the worst cuz python is pretty much a requirement for a base system nowadays
<nikolar> but it's still python
<heat> python is not the worst
<heat> could be lua
<Ermine> I'm not happy about python in the base system
<nikolar> ^
<beto> what would make python a requirement for base systems?
<heat> lots of basic tooling just needs it
<heat> python is certainly more ergonomic than shell scripts
<heat> it's not even the only really base language interpreter you need, cuz you also probably need perl
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<heat> bash, perl, python - all of these interpreters are also written in pretty conservative C - it's not the worst
<Ermine> bash and python are different categories of tools
<netbsduser> it has been interesting for me to learn that there is a large contingent of people who despise the linked list as a datastructure
<netbsduser> and not even just when it's used as a set or a bag, some people even detest the idea of a linked list for a page replacement queue, or a runqueue
<beto> for tooling it makes, that's what they were made for
<heat> Ermine, how?
<heat> bash is more of a command line thing and python is more of an actual programming language, but both are scripting languages
<heat> netbsduser, yep, linked lists are bad
<netbsduser> heat: of course, every single one must be deleted and replaced with a vector
<heat> on the linux side it's somewhat desired to Eventually(tm) move from the LRU linked lists into some better type of scanning that doesn't completely suck
<heat> yep vector usually works perfectly
<netbsduser> for an LRU list i struggle to think of an apter structure than a linked list
<netbsduser> though i do the local level of page replacement with a modified ring buffer (it can have gaps and it can be extended or trimmed at the end with new pages)
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<bslsk05> ​lore.kernel.org: Virtual Scanning Considered Harmful - Matthew Wilcox
<nikolar> interesting
<Ermine> > considered harmful
<netbsduser> heat: this *would* be a revolution indeed
<netbsduser> and physical scanning has been used before (possibly in linux? i'm not sure)
<heat> nope. last i heard an oracle mm guy was screwing around with it
<netbsduser> i thought it was used in linux before it was modernised in 2002
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<the_oz> "<heat> you know what they say, god is a C++ programmer" What kind of sick god do you deify?
<kof673> that was an xkcd about lisp, but the old guy on cloud tells him honestly, duct tape perl
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<kof673> you will only see my templates, you cannot see the generated code and live
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* kof673 hides inside the c mountain with the wee folk while the C++ god passes by
<sortie> ... that itch to just port go
<sortie> Anyone wanna race me to port go first?
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<zid`> sortie: I don't condone self-harm, please get help
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<the_oz_> if you port golang AND node in a week
<the_oz_> I'd seriously be impressed
<sortie> I don't expect it to that hard lol
<the_oz_> I don't even think that can be done
<bslsk05> ​go.dev: Installing Go from source - The Go Programming Language
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<sortie> The "Install Go compiler binaries for bootstrap" and "Bootstrap toolchain from C source code" section basically explains it. You can port Go 1.4 written in C, and then use it to bootstrap modern Go, if you want to go natively with a true bootstrap from source, or just cross-compile
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<the_oz_> was looking at https://go.dev/src/bootstrap.bash
<bslsk05> ​go.dev: - The Go Programming Language
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<sortie> I'm pretty sure I can do it although it wouldn't be that much fun and right now I feel more motivated to work on my init system
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