klange changed the topic of #osdev to: Operating System Development || Don't ask to ask---just ask! || For 3+ LoC, use a pastebin (for example https://gist.github.com/) || Stats + Old logs: http://osdev-logs.qzx.com New Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev || Visit https://wiki.osdev.org and https://forum.osdev.org || Books: https://wiki.osdev.org/Books
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<the_oz_> Yeah you get it
<the_oz_> Was worried a bit that it wouldn't translate to text but there ya go.
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<Ermine> journald dumped core
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<immibis> truthiness is even more powerful
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<netbsduser> i have started writing section 9 manpages for my kernel
<netbsduser> quite a good diversion
<netbsduser> mdoc language certainly takes some getting used to
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<heat> use groff not mdoc
<heat> BSD is lame
<Ermine> seems like morton's fork
<nikolar> What's section 9 for again
<Ermine> for kernal
<zid`> nikolapdp: The secret police in future japan
<bslsk05> ​github.com: Onyx/kernel/onyx.9 at master · heatd/Onyx · GitHub
<nikolar> zid`: kek
<nikolar> Ah is that a common thing Ermine
<netbsduser> heat: groff accepts the format
<netbsduser> possibly it was invented for groff, i'm not sure
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<heat> no
<Ermine> netbsduser: try scdoc
<heat> mdoc is mdoc, it's a BSD thing
<zid`> rip atsuko tanaka
<heat> groff and the linux manpages in general use the man macro package
<heat> groff can ofc understand mdoc, and vice-versa
<netbsduser> bsd-gnu divergence is a new thing, 4.4bsd was full of gnu stuff
<Ermine> zid`: what are you watching
<netbsduser> and the old man macros are just not going to do
<heat> new BSD is also still full of gnu stuff
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<nikolar> Oh that was recent zid`
<netbsduser> the last thing i need is to try to remember whether i use italic or bold for flags or arguments while in mdoc i just say "it's a flag"
<heat> in any case i hate writing manpages soooo
<heat> section 9 is even worse
<nikolar> That's why you have Ermine
<netbsduser> it looks like groff has been accepting mdoc since 1990 so that gives a little time for it to catch on, hopefully enough for me
<heat> hm?
<bslsk05> ​github.com: groff/macros/tmac.doc at 351da0dcdf702cf243d26ffa998961bce2aa8653 · dbarowy/groff · GitHub
<heat> oh maybe i'm confusing mdoc and mandoc
<heat> this shit is confusing yo
<netbsduser> mandoc is a new bsd tool, it was only invented in 2010 or so
<Ermine> how much of "i hate writing man pages" results from "i hate to write docs"?
<heat> a good chunk of it
<Ermine> not to blame, I'm too lazy to document stuff too
<heat> then the man page format unequivocally sucks
<heat> then the docs you write are out-of-line (not C comments) so they very easily go out of date
<netbsduser> the format is definitely an annoyance
<heat> even C comments have that problem
<Ermine> yeah
<netbsduser> i used docbook at one time which was tedious and unwriteable without an xml editor
<Ermine> did i mention that drm docs have outdated places
<netbsduser> markdown is a void, nothingness, while mdoc is thorough but nigh unreadable
<heat> freebsd section 9 manpages actively lie to you
<Ermine> nobody cares to update them i guess
<the_oz_> I could see that being a feature in like 9front
<the_oz_> >lead non-devs astray
<the_oz_> WAR!!!
<netbsduser> linux interestingly doesn't seem to do manpages about the kernel
<heat> yep
<heat> the sphinx docs are autogenerated from kerneldoc around the kernel
<Ermine> It has descriptions in Documentation/ subdir and it pulls in comment docs there
<Ermine> Random q: does PCI(-e) have any standartized means to do DMA?
<heat> wdym
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<pog> bus mastering
<heat> pog how about you master my bus
<pog> lewd
<zid`> ur mum mastered a bus, I saw her
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<netbsduser> i have fond memories of sphynx
<netbsduser> maybe i should use it for the internals documentation as opposed to the use documentation
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<vai> hi
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<sortie> https://www-showapi-com.translate.goog/news/article/66f790814ddd79f11a37f05c?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp ← osdev achievement unlocked: chinese blogs about your OS that starts out reasonable and then gets increasingly unhinged and something is terribly wrong and there's a whole alternate backstory that's better than the real story
<bslsk05> ​www-showapi-com.translate.goog: Sortix操作系统：Unix类系统的新秀-易源AI资讯 | 万维易源
<nikolar> Lol
<sortie> “Except for the necessary sleep time every day, he devotes almost all his energy to writing code.“
<GeDaMo> Roll out of bed onto the keyboard :P
<kof673> the detective is solving the case when they appear to be doing nothing. the os dever is solving the problems in their sleep.
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<netbsduser> sortie: best wishes for the plans to introduce containerisation and machine learning support, blockchain identity verification, and the upcoming partnerships with academia and industry
<netbsduser> sortix will become the toast of linkedin influencers
<sortie> netbsduser: I was honestly more scared of the NVDIA driver
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<nortti> do I misremember or didn't you have some ancient branch with an nvidia (modesetting) driver?
<zid`> mmmm toast
<sortie> nortti: That was ATI
<zid`> I'd like some toast please
<sortie> oh hey my node.js compilation, after upgrading to a fixed kernel, is actually compiling the .o objects that previously crashed g++
<heat> nvidia driver is probably not that hard to support after you have drm running
<heat> you just need to further pretend you're linux and load nvidia.ko, dun
<zid`> That'd be my plan
<Ermine> now that they went open source it's a bit easier
<zid`> They give you a small smattering of .c files to build as well
<zid`> to host THE BLOB
<heat> yeah that's nvidia-uvm
<nortti> the open source kernel driver still requires the proprietary runtime libraries, right?
<nortti> userspace-side, that is
<heat> yes
<nortti> wouldn't you need linux ABI support in userland for it then, too?
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<heat> uhh
<heat> probably not
<sortie> heat: I may literally be about to link v8 in a few minutes
<heat> like, i would bet nvidia userspace doesn't do syscalls directly
<Ermine> to use their libGL/etc you'd need to be binary compatible with linux and glibc
<heat> and libc.so will translate that just fine
<zid`> I figured it was all ioctls
<heat> no, you just need a binary compatible glibc
<zid`> drivers love ioctls
<heat> yes it's all ioctls
<sortie> posix_devctl for all your terribleness
<Ermine> though drm has read and poll
<heat> ok, ioctls and poll
<heat> and *maybe* some read()/write()
<Ermine> for events basically though
<heat> but it's mostly just spamming ioctls as usual
<Ermine> gem objects support mmapping
<Mondenkind> glibc abi is probably harder than linux kernel abi :s
<heat> not really
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<heat> just... compile glibc
<Ermine> in a funny way: you use an ioctl to get an offset for the given gem object and then pass that offset to mmap
<heat> i know
<heat> but the point stands: it's all standard shit that's done through libc.so.6
<Ermine> my last message is not about glibc tho
<heat> yes, that's done by drm
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<Ermine> but actually, sortix is going to get modesetting?
<sortie> Ermine: The APIs are there but the drivers are not
<sortie> BGA has modesetting eg
<Ermine> woah
<sortie> I mean that was dead simple to implement, it only works in VMs tho
<sortie> Write a couple device registers with the resolution and then just use the framebuffer
<Ermine> on vms it's always simpler
<sortie> Step right up ladies and gentlement, place your bets, have I accidentally ported v8 / node.js
<heat> probably
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<sortie> neato my Sortix laptop boots to a root shell in 270 ms and to a graphical user-space interface with a terminal in 500 ms
<pog> can it run doom
<zid`> I can run doom
<sortie> pog: It has quake port :)
<pog> how do you run doom zid are you executing bytecode
<pog> oh yeah that's right
<Ermine> sortie: try to boot it on 486
<Ermine> btw, 86box can emulate that
<sortie> Ermine: That'd obviously be slower lol but we have booted on old pentiums previously
<Ermine> yes, but what numbers will you get?
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<sortie> Does it matter much? However fast the machine in question is
<Ermine> I'm curious about numbers
<sortie> It'd still be generally fast I'd say
<sortie> Most of the boot time is spent on IO or waiting on devices
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<zid`> pog: I just read the source listing a line at a time and make decisions
<pog> how do you render
<pog> do you draw really really fast
<kof673> just print the graphics out into a flipbook, and then a robot arm flips through the graphics
* Ermine gives pog a piece of cheese
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* pog is fascinated
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