levitating_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
levitating_ has joined #osdev
m3a has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
mavhq has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
raphaelsc has joined #osdev
edr has joined #osdev
raykv423 has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
mavhq has joined #osdev
<Ermine>
kaboom
<nikolar>
sploosh
<zid`>
I tabbed from an article about how some russian lady thinks they should have just nuked london and gotten it all over with, to irc and ermine saying 'kaboom' :P
<Ermine>
ew
<Ermine>
Just in case, I stand for total ban on nukes
SophiaNya has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
ptrc has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
SophiaNya has joined #osdev
ptrc has joined #osdev
<Mutabah>
Sounds like people are playing that one wind waker minigame
<zid`>
win a sail!
andydude has joined #osdev
steelswords94 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
steelswords94 has joined #osdev
voidah has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
<heat>
i stand for nuking london
<zid`>
That's called envy
<zid`>
porto already looks nuked
op has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<heat>
i agree, porto sucks
<heat>
lisbon 4eva
steelswords94 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
steelswords94 has joined #osdev
levitating__ has joined #osdev
levitating_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
<the_oz_>
banning nukes means pro-mafia control of a nuclear world order
<the_oz_>
it is what it is, sorry, no takesies backsies
levitating__ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
steelswords94 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
steelswords94 has joined #osdev
jedesa has quit [Quit: jedesa]
MiningMarsh has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
MiningMarsh has joined #osdev
dude12312414 has joined #osdev
dude12312414 has quit [Client Quit]
bauen1 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
jedesa has joined #osdev
PublicWiFi is now known as CryptWiFi
levitating__ has joined #osdev
goliath has quit [Quit: SIGSEGV]
levitating_ has joined #osdev
levitating__ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
FreeFull has quit []
Left_Turn has joined #osdev
_ngn has joined #osdev
bauen1 has joined #osdev
levitating_ is now known as levitating
Dead_Bush_Sanpai has joined #osdev
Turn_Left has joined #osdev
Left_Turn has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
FreeFull has joined #osdev
the_oz__ has joined #osdev
Fingel has joined #osdev
the_oz_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
basil has quit [Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)]
Fingel has quit [Client Quit]
basil has joined #osdev
torresjrjr has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
xenos1984 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
zhiayang has quit [Quit: oof.]
steelswords94 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
xenos1984 has joined #osdev
zhiayang has joined #osdev
torresjrjr has joined #osdev
steelswords94 has joined #osdev
Fingel has joined #osdev
op has joined #osdev
lte678 has joined #osdev
goliath has joined #osdev
stolen has joined #osdev
CryptWiFi is now known as PublicWiFi
Gooberpatrol66 has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
Gooberpatrol66 has joined #osdev
gildasio has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
gildasio has joined #osdev
Left_Turn has joined #osdev
Turn_Left has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
xenos1984 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
Turn_Left has joined #osdev
Left_Turn has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
mavhq has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
mavhq has joined #osdev
op has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
xenos1984 has joined #osdev
gog has joined #osdev
cow321 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
voidah has joined #osdev
voidah has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
Gooberpatrol_66 has joined #osdev
Gooberpatrol66 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
voidah has joined #osdev
eluks has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
eluks has joined #osdev
Dead_Bush_Sanpa1 has joined #osdev
Dead_Bush_Sanpai has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
Dead_Bush_Sanpa1 is now known as Dead_Bush_Sanpai
eluks has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
edr has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<bslsk05>
twitter: <SapphoSys> going to the .DS_Store anyone want anything
Fingel has joined #osdev
<sortie>
:D
Fingel has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<gog>
leme get uhhhh resource fork
Fingel has joined #osdev
<sortie>
I could go for some zip metadata
levitating_ has joined #osdev
levitating has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
elderK has joined #osdev
hwpplayer1 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
hwpplayer1 has joined #osdev
hwpplayer1 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
edr has joined #osdev
voidah has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
voidah has joined #osdev
steelswords94 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
steelswords94 has joined #osdev
cow321 has joined #osdev
jjuran_ has joined #osdev
levitating_ is now known as levitating
stolen has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
steelswords94 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
jjuran has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
jjuran_ is now known as jjuran
steelswords94 has joined #osdev
voidah has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
<andydude>
gog: I miss mac
<gog>
i don't
<gog>
i had a PowerMac G4 Al and it was the biggest waste of money ever
<sortie>
Today in osdev I'm working on my init system and it
<gog>
i have not owned a mac since
<andydude>
not a big fan of the recent changes (like iOS and W^X)
<sortie>
's complex state machine and it's really difficult to handle all cases and I can hear my university professor's lessons in my head as I try to maintain this code
<gog>
i think there are a lot of good things about OSX but it's so tied to the apple ecosystem
* sortie
tells those dissident opinions that nooo I don't need a formal state machine verification
<gog>
w^x is good also
<sortie>
W^X is great but previously in a typo I invented PROT_WRITE | PROT_WRITE and we've dubbed it W^2 and it's all the rage
<andydude>
darwin, gnu-step, etc. tried to take some of that ecosystem to the *BSD world
GeDaMo has quit [Quit: 0wt 0f v0w3ls.]
<sortie>
I haven't really been taking macOS seriously since it's been two decades behind on POSIX
sortie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
sortie has joined #osdev
<heat>
sortie, socket activation?
<heat>
:P
<gog>
it only protects you if you write twice
<gog>
write once is fine
<kof673>
ahh, true to nextstep :D it lives on! > macOS seriously since it's been two decades behind on POSIX
<andydude>
It takes less than 2 decades to add "if darwin" to open source stuff
<andydude>
also, exactly how is it behind on posix?
Fingel has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
<heat>
not only does it not implement posix, it's implementation is also subtly incorrect
<bslsk05>
github.com: Onyx/usystem/tests/regtests/namei.c at master · heatd/Onyx · GitHub
<heat>
and this is something as basic as path walking
<heat>
which non-certified unices like the BSDs and Linux _mostly_ get right
<andydude>
regtests not found
<sortie>
heat: Not a lot of mental energy right now to read your code, but what's the problem with macOS's path walking?
<heat>
it's subtly broken in some edge cases
<andydude>
oh you mean the whole "/" and ":" not allowed in filenames, yeah, they're never going to fix that
<heat>
we discussed this wayyyyyyyyy back when i first wrote this
<heat>
andydude, no.
<sortie>
heat: What are those cases?
<heat>
idk
<heat>
i'd need to look through my irc logs for a while
<sortie>
I call bullshit
<sortie>
This is heat spreading misinformation and Onyx again
<heat>
you can call whatever you want
<sortie>
I can't because the path walking is wrong I can't get to /macos/heat/bullshit :(
<sortie>
I joke but it sucks if they get that basics wrong
<andydude>
The only instance of posix non-compliance in macos that I am aware of is that when it first came out, it didn't have dlopen(), and so you had to do some funky stuff to open dynamic libraries, but I was pretty sure that was fixed in 2004
<nortti>
I can try running it on os x 10.6 tomorrow. it's unix certified, but dunno how close that's to curretn state
<sortie>
My problem with macOS is when they say POSIX they mean POSIX *2001*
<sortie>
That's like two decades of innovation that's barely there
<sortie>
Unless they somehow added POSIX 2008 stuff in the recent years and I didn't know about it
<andydude>
well, they probably don't work on the core anymore, I recently saw some patchnotes in xar that indicated that it hasn't been looked at in over 10 years
<heat>
nortti, yeah you were involved Back Then yeah
<andydude>
xar is only the archive system used by every single installer on macos
<Ermine>
did I accidentally virtualbox site
<nortti>
heat: the ones I provided you were not from a unix-certified version back then, only had powerpc (only ever certified on intel and arm, 10.5 onwards)
<sortie>
I did get a job offer to work on the macOS XNU kernel and CoreOS but well
<sortie>
I'd almost take the job just to fix their darn stuff
<andydude>
isn't CoreOS just linux?
<heat>
... no?
<heat>
nortti, hmm maybe that's subtly different
<andydude>
sortie: at Apple?
<sortie>
andydude: Wherever the internal team was called
<andydude>
SkunkWorks
<andydude>
Seal Team 6
<andydude>
There was once a blog that recalled the early days of Apple when people just made up titles, like Chief Digital Wizard
raykv423 has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
<zid`>
Hmm I remember you doing a bunch of flag tests for open and stuff and various combos were broken on various things
<zid`>
wouldn't surprise me if a bunch of them didn't actually fully conform all of the time
<sortie>
Fun fact Sortix is actually named -IX which which is 9 for roman numeral compatibility with Plan 9
<zid`>
"why do people keep finding me!?"
<andydude>
I <3 Plan9
<andydude>
it was the last independent unix era
<Ermine>
plan9 is not unix though
<heat>
what's an independent unix
<sortie>
zid`: I literally once kept following the sortie signs and felt like 'yes this is going my way' until I almost exited the CDG Paris airport by accident and I actually needed a connecting flight
<zid`>
sortie: They wanted rid of you so badly they put up signs
<zid`>
Rust = web 4.0
<Ermine>
lmao
<sortie>
sortie belongs out in the french commons
<heat>
perl = UNIX 5.0
<zid`>
sys v unix = unix 6, weirdly
<andydude>
Well, maybe "independent unix" is the wrong word, I think the word I was looking for is "Rob Pike Cyber Creation"
<sortie>
Sortix also ends in -X for macOS 10 compatibility
<kof673>
i'm on lynx, is this still the logo? > Mar 28, 2016 · The logo is an old cat logo
<sortie>
kof673: Sortix ships with links not lynx
<sortie>
So you'll have to adapt a bit when you migrate
<zid`>
is it built with -g support
<kof673>
yes, but i am making an X joke. CHIron is X, centaur...egypt lion with bow (see secret of mana charon lol). i recommend chiron :D
<sortie>
Sortix ports are built -Os -s
<zid`>
k?
<Ermine>
ah so you just like Rob Pike
<zid`>
-g is graphical mode, it needs a CONFIG_FB or whatever
<sortie>
kof673: But yeah same old logo as ever
<dostoyevsky2>
Is there a class of hobby OSes that can run firefox in some form?
<heat>
no
<zid`>
yea, linux
<Ermine>
he's still alive, so "independent unix era" is still here
<heat>
OPENBSD
<zid`>
It's a little out of hand as a hobby project now though
<Ermine>
netbsd
<dostoyevsky2>
heat: ha!
<sortie>
zid`: Ah no framebuffer for links. Perhaps SDL or something might work. nortti did the port
<zid`>
nortti my favourite
<zid`>
is good people
<kof673>
> The myth of Geryon is linked to the building of the nations of Spain and Portugal meta-chiron basically leads you out of meta-portugal.... there are layers here
<dostoyevsky2>
I think DragonFly BSD may meet my criteria
<sortie>
nortti is indeed google people and they're actually only one person so that's a really high bar they meet and they do
<sortie>
*good people
<heat>
GOOGLE PEOPLE?
<sortie>
I'VE SAID {TOO MUCH}
<sortie>
Anyone else got 23:38 syndrome?
<Ermine>
I guess if someone gets badass enough to port drm to onyx, there will be one more system
<heat>
no i have 22:38 syndrome
<heat>
sorry
<sortie>
heat: Gotta get on french time dude C'EST
<heat>
Ermine, thank you for volunteering
<sortie>
heat is so WEST
<heat>
dostoyevsky2, i think we've talked about this but i consider all BSDs not named freebsd hobby
<andydude>
Matthew 23:38 says, "See, your house is left to you desolate".
<zid`>
Total: 398 packages (70 new, 1 in new slot, 327 reinstalls), Size of downloads: 227408 KiB
<zid`>
emerge*
<andydude>
I've worked on ff before, every feature is implemented in at least 12 files
<Ermine>
> -bin
<zid`>
and whatever else you want if you want to compile it yourself, meson and ninja and shit, assuming none of the deps also needed them
<sortie>
Do I need rust for firefox?
<Ermine>
yes
<nikolar>
zid`: and what are the build time deps
<heat>
RUST
<zid`>
nikolapdp: idk, fancy doing a diff?
<nikolar>
sortie: yes, rust was literally invented for firefox
<dostoyevsky2>
nikolar: I think the API part for browsers doesn't seem that difficult.. just the normal kernel stuff and the X11 protocol... but building the C++ code that seems very hard
<sortie>
Yep I see rustc being needed by Cbindgen which is needed by firefox
<heat>
>I think the API part for browsers doesn't seem that difficult.
<nikolar>
dostoyevsky2: i meant that browsers themselves are a nightmare
<heat>
it's insane
<nikolar>
zid`: kek sure
<andydude>
sortie: you're thinking of Servo
<heat>
you need full implementations for graphics and audio
<bslsk05>
archlinux.org: Arch Linux - chromium 129.0.6668.70-1 (x86_64)
<zid`>
OS implements "open files", web browser uses that to implement "decode JPEG files and draw them"
<sortie>
I like the irony of Firefox needing the Chrome javascript engine to build
<nikolar>
sortie: i guess no one thought about thta lol
<zid`>
The cunts who decided *json* was a suitable config file format
<zid`>
should be fired into the sun
<sortie>
json wasn't invented it was discovered
<heat>
i've used json as a config file format
<heat>
i should definitely be fired into the sun
<zid`>
heat: Was your program written in javascript?
<heat>
no
<zid`>
Then yes, you should be
<nikolar>
zid`: thank you
<zid`>
why the fuck would you pull in v8 just to open your own config files, and make end users hand edit javascript classes
<heat>
worse: i have to import a shitty header-only C++ library that takes like 2s just to compile
<andydude>
speaking of decoding jpeg, I wrote my own jpeg decoder a week ago
<heat>
for _every file_
<dostoyevsky2>
heat: I keep writing DSL-like YAML formats
<zid`>
If your project needs something more than .ini
<zid`>
redesign your project it's shit
<Ermine>
why does vbox vendor mesa...
<heat>
Ermine, google vibes buddy
<andydude>
my favorite config files are YAML
<heat>
WHY IS IT DOWNLOADING ITS OWN TOOLCHAIN
<heat>
shades of mcrod
<nikolar>
andydude: yaml is disguisting
<nikolar>
don't use it
<zid`>
yaml is fucking pointless*
<Ermine>
yaml is cringe
<mcrod>
what
<heat>
yaml
<zid`>
"let's use a library that can validate the input files" okay great, so now I have all that code twice, yay
<dostoyevsky2>
andydude: I even convert HTML to yaml, so I can easily read a dom in a terminal
<zid`>
cus I sure as shit need to validate what the yaml loader gives me
<zid`>
or at least convert it to my internal data structures
<nikolar>
zid`: don't forget that there are a bunch of yaml features even the yaml creators tell you not to use
<zid`>
so now yaml is loading it from a timestamp to a date, validating the date is 'in range', then giving me the timestamp, so that I can turn it into a date
_ngn has quit [Quit: WeeChat 4.4.2]
<heat>
maybe the real config file format ends up being shell + copius wordexp usage
<zid`>
It's ini
<zid`>
The only text based config format that makes any sense is ini, or possibly ini with control blocks, like say, apache.conf
<zid`>
kernel is fine with ini
<dostoyevsky2>
andydude: YAML feels a bit like python but with just the data structure syntax
<zid`>
The thing with the most configuration options of all time
<heat>
kernel's format isn't ini
<zid`>
a=b
<zid`>
is ini
<heat>
don't those need sections?
<heat>
[wank]
<heat>
a=b
<zid`>
[crap] is optional yea
<zid`>
it just lets you namespace in the loader if you want
<zid`>
wank.a
<zid`>
The point is it's completely unspecified and also completely braindead
<heat>
huh winapi supports ini natively?
<zid`>
apparently? I've never tried it
<heat>
according to wikipedia
<zid`>
GetPrivateProfileString I think
<zid`>
Note This function is provided only for compatibility with 16-bit Windows-based applications. Applications should store initialization information in the registry.
xenos1984 has joined #osdev
<heat>
see, the annoying bit about all of this shit is just parsing
<Ermine>
CONFIG.SYS
<zid`>
Good news, readline, find the first =
<zid`>
you're do ne
<heat>
which is why json kind of Just Works even if it results in a crap experience for the end user
<heat>
on linux + C you might want to import glib which... hah
<zid`>
You either toss it in a hash table, or you read it sequentially and set all your flags
<Ermine>
why glib
<zid`>
idk what's hard about parsing ini
brynet has joined #osdev
<Ermine>
surely there are standalone ini libs
<heat>
Ermine, idk it's the second impl in the list
<heat>
fwiw glib is probably a nice lib to use for C
<heat>
for data structures at least
<Ermine>
I've tried that and I don't recommend
<Ermine>
though you'd have to use it if you use gtk