klange changed the topic of #osdev to: Operating System Development || Don't ask to ask---just ask! || For 3+ LoC, use a pastebin (for example https://gist.github.com/) || Stats + Old logs: http://osdev-logs.qzx.com New Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev || Visit https://wiki.osdev.org and https://forum.osdev.org || Books: https://wiki.osdev.org/Books
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<kof673> > why is it always 'six of one, half dozen of the other' > We shall find that she was the first baker who produced thirteen to the dozen, and the only baker who ever had the owl (hieroglyphic Ma) for a daughter.
<kof673> basically it is nikolar's fault > the breather of the waters imaged by the fish, the frog air -> water -> earth -> fire (dry v wet, hot v cold) all was said to be a giant frog/water/swamp before "earth" "land" appeared
<kof673> "mummy dust" lol
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<kof673> there are so-called "blue moons" some years have 13 19*365.25 6939.75 6939.75/29.53 235.0067 i believe wikipedia says 7 every 19 years, 228 "normal"? ... anyways...
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<kof673> making croissants obviously, anyways :)
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<the_oz> I got hints before but now I know for sure you an alchemical bro
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<Ermine> java os should be able to download its modules and drivers from maven central
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<nikolar> KERNAL
<Ermine> i guess we doing commodore now
<zid`> nikolar is called nikolar because he tried to spell kernal but got it really wrong
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<nikolar> yeah and it was too late to change the name
<zid`> better that you ended up with nikolar than kolonic at least
<nikolar> lol
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<zid`> "Short Story Compilation Volume 2 will start prepubs on Myneday at the normal time."
<zid`> aww yis
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<nikolar> ll
<zid`> did you figure me out a birthday present yet nikolar?
<nikolar> nope
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<zid`> nikolar: Did you at least decide on the *colour* of the pony?
<nikolar> pink
<zid`> please don't spray-paint horses
<Ermine> nikolar will paint horse with a brush, as you wish
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<zid`> lol
<zid`> remember yesterday(?) when I said "eh, just download all the dns"
<zid`> [14:15] <matja> i downloaded the dns
<zid`> [14:15] <matja> -rw-r--r-- 1 manger manger 225939469723 Oct 16 20:56 dns_records_14_10_2024.csv
<zid`> it is apparently 225GB
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<Ermine> i expected it to be bigger
<nikolar> :|
<zid`> I think that's just what the roots give you
<zid`> so all subdomains etc aren't on it
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<sortie> heat how do you respond to the comments saying that Onyx is just a lightly reskinned Linux?
<sortie> Legal Mathematicians have proven that all GPL-2-ONLY code is isomorphic with the Linux kernel
<nikolar> what's that all about
<sortie> Onyx is becoming too powerful at this rate and we all need to pitch in on an coordinated misinformation campaign
<Ermine> I will be Onyx's factchecker then
<heat> i'd agree for all intents and purposes yeah it's kinda linux
<geist> Huh surprised there’s a query to DNS servers that let you get everything you dont explicitly ask for
<geist> is it like a query for * or something?
<sortie> The allegations say that Onyx has stolen a libc from obscure Linux distros
<heat> i'd guess it's not a query
<sortie> The ANY class?
<heat> query for * sounds like a ggez DDoS
<geist> (what does ggez stand for?)
<sortie> geist: I handed in my badge and gun^Wlaptop at Google yesterday :)
<geist> oh how did you delay it that long? were you working up till now?
<sortie> Well I just kept em lol
<geist> or one of those go home but we can’t let you go until <period of time>
<geist> because <legal reasons>
<sortie> Yep legally I was an employee sent home for 5 homes, and contractually we expanded that to 6 months, expiring at the end of thi smonth
<sortie> *5 months
<geist> only 5 homes? geez are you even trying that hard?
<geist> you worked at google!
<sortie> :D
<sortie> For every three years we work, we get an extra month of severance here
<sortie> So I had earned up 2 extra months on top of the legal 3 month minimum
<geist> noice. Well, sortix got an upgrade over the last 5 months i see
<geist> after you got over being all mad and kicking and knockjing things over in your houses
<bslsk05> ​datatracker.ietf.org: RFC 8482 - Providing Minimal-Sized Responses to DNS Queries That Have QTYPE=ANY
<geist> throwing TVs out the window, etc
<the_oz> no ANY 4 u
<geist> though actually isn’t it uncouth to show anger or whatnot in scandinavian countries?
<geist> i had read somewhere that in denmark its mostly correct to be composed and rational
<sortie> geist: Between 6 months of severance including stock, plus 6 months of pay bonus, and goog $180 I was laughing all the way to the bank after being laid off but I was sad though to lose my dear colleagues
<geist> and if you show a lot of passion about something with outbursts or whatnot folks will tend to dismiss you
<sortie> idk I consider ourselves a bit more normal than unhinged american passion yelling at customer support idk
<sortie> I did have to tell my self that it was okay to go to the dark side to yell at the insurance when they fucked me over and I ended up being very polite and doing the survey
<the_oz> japanese yell at ghosts, or take up the angry role in business but aren't usually actually
<geist> yeah it’s sort of that thing they teach you in cartoons and whatnot in america. it’s this notion thatif you feel strongly about something you have to go for it, it’s sort of built into theculture
<geist> it’s not so much about being angry as much as if you care enough about something and you show passion that’s a ‘good’ thing and others will respect you for it
<heat> geist, ggez = good game ez
<heat> it's multiplayer game lingo
<geist> oh i assumed, i just hadn’t seen that one
<sortie> geist: I mostly don't waste time on negative emotions but spend my time being passionate about things that I enjoy. People react very positively to being honestly passionate about something positive.
<the_oz> sortie: it's ok to actually show emotion sometimes. Would you like to take a survey of how badly exactly we violated you?
<Ermine> I haven't seen ggez too
<geist> okay that sounds ‘good’ then.
<Ermine> Only ggwp
<sortie> I felt bad answering 1 to how well the customer rep did even though they weren't quite the ones that fucked me over month after month
<geist> also i’m on a boat!
<sortie> geist: You ever ssh into google from an airplane?
<heat> Ermine, you need to play more toxic mp games
<geist> but i’,m in the middle of the sound now, so my network is really crummy
<Ermine> my pc is too weak for fortnite and pubg
<sortie> Puget sound?
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<geist> yep. ferry ride to the office
<sortie> I can't believe I haven't been to Seattle since 2019
<bslsk05> ​'The Lonely Island - I'm On A Boat (Explicit Version) ft. T-Pain (Official Video)' by thelonelyisland (00:03:04)
<heat> Ermine, csgo bro
<heat> the classic slavic fps game
<geist> yah 2019 was the year of the last major work travel i did
<Ermine> heat: classic slavic is cs 1.6
<geist> oh i guess that’s not true, i went to paris in 2022
<sortie> I managed to work travel in 22, 23, and 24 :)
<geist> that was just that brief window after pandemic where things were opening up but the company hadnt cranked down on travel
<sortie> But it was never quite the same again after they either were super concerned about us traveling or about the economy
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<geist> yep
<sortie> So I only managed to justify a trip to MTV since I didn't work so closely with the peeps in Seattle and Portland
<heat> recessions are goated
<geist> though i kick myself i should have booked a ticket to san jose this week to go to the riscv convention
<geist> i had an opportunity to last month but i just sort of forgot about it
<heat> i might get a masters now that the economy is going to shit
<sortie> It was too riscy-- what why are you dragging me out oh god there was a sign with a warning not to make that joke nooo
<geist> more like i couldn’t be bothered to write up a doc justifying travel, which you have to do now
<geist> instead of just asking your boss for thumbs up and then just doing it, like before
<heat> that's why you should work on linux
<heat> you get free travel auto justified
<geist> also i can turn into an angry old man
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<sortie> geist: I wrote a whole doc and sent an email to my director and it was insta approved 3 minutes after I went the email
<heat> for like the 5 yearly conferences
* Ermine hopes to get to FOSDEM at least once in his life...
<sortie> I spent two weeks in California making the greatest plans yet for what to do and we were super excited
<geist> let the dark side flow through me
<geist> and yeah i’m sure it’d be auto approved i just couldn’t be bothered to do it
<geist> and then i forgot to
<sortie> Two weeks later I was laid off along with most people I had talked to
<sortie> But at least I got an all expenses paid trip to California to see one of my favorite bands ever flying business class
<geist> yah and here to SJ is like a 2 hour flight
<sortie> And a luxury apartment all of my own in Sunnyvale
<geist> yeah the gsuites are nice
<heat> Ermine, FOSDEM is lame
<heat> linux plumbers or linux storage/fs/mm/bpf is goated
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<heat> this years' storagefsmmbpf was in SLC
<heat> which is definitely somewhere i'd love to go to
<geist> hmm which place is SLC?
<Ermine> linux plumbers and xdc are also on my list
<heat> salt lake city
<geist> ah yeah
<Ermine> fosdem is cool too
<geist> no booze though
<Ermine> at least it's a chance to say hi in person to some of ya
<heat> they DEFINITELY had booze geist
<heat> i've heard the stories
<heat> great lkml beefs are squashed with great beers
<geist> woot. honestly i’ve never been to SLC, except driving through it once or twice
<geist> yeah i always appreciate the ability of a dinner w/drinks to let folks chill out
<geist> IL7 at Apple was that.
<geist> The unofficial 7th building of Infinite Loop, which was the brewpub in the parking lot
<Ermine> seems like those linux confs are all in US or Canada?
<geist> you’d have these huge arguments at work and then go after work and drink
<geist> with the people you were just arguing with
<heat> Ermine, no
<Ermine> arguments as in civilised discussions or "STFU - NO U"?
<heat> we had plumbers here in lisbon a few years ago
<geist> my experience at least working on M68 was that things could get pretty heated
<heat> we also had, uhh, bsdcan? something like that
<heat> (bsdcannot)
<heat> what's M68?
<geist> grep the internet mang
<Ermine> zid now can grep it actually
<heat> cool!
<geist> hah there’s even a wikipedia page for all the known apple codenames
<heat> oh, iphone
<geist> yah
<Ermine> oh, til apple is a military company
<heat> well with how google glass bombed, it's also a military company
<heat> badumtss
<geist> somewhere i have a picture of literally thefirst time one of the m68 prototypes booted
<geist> me and another guy were in a chinese factory in shenzhen trying to get it to boot, just after it rolled off the assembly line
<heat> do things get heated in fuchsia or do you get CoC'd into compliance?
<geist> nah not really
<geist> GTG. boat docked
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<sortie> geist is doing maritime osdev
<heat> don't be silly sortie
<heat> no one does osdev in #osdev
<heat> except me and you and the managarm people
<sortie> I'm still upset I don't know who the managarm people are, please report yourself, you're supposed to give me screenshots and tell me about your cool stuff
<sortie> Also is it an anagram?
<heat> managram
<sortie> heat: I mean I do less osdev and more of a ship of theseus turning a GNU system into BSD piece by piece as a performance art statement on the toxic cultures of free software
<heat> i write kernal
<heat> i've been keeping my editor open for like... 3 weeks? without ever touching it or writing anything
<heat> i really just dont feel like it honestly
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<nikolar> relatablae
<sortie> osdev is a calling and some people just don't have it
<sortie> I osdev because it is what I do
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<Ermine> seems like I need to commit something to onyx
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<Ermine> to qualify as 'doing osdev'
<heat> DO IT
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<heat> i dont understand how the fuck someone can copy text from vim to the system clipboard
<Ermine> why do you even use it
<heat> use what?
<Ermine> vim
<heat> git commit messages and neomutt
<Ermine> are you in x or in wayland
<heat> wayland
<Ermine> go to visual mode, highlight whatever you want, and use command :w !wl-copy -n
<nshp> your vim has to be compiled with wayland support and have a $WAYLAND_DISPLAY, then likely your + register will be mapped to the GUI clipboard
<nshp> wait or does that not exist yet? :/
<nshp> bah, it doesn't
<nshp> well, that's how it would work if vim had wayland support
<bslsk05> ​github.com: Clipboard support in Wayland · Issue #5157 · vim/vim · GitHub
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<heat> i wish ctrl+c would just work like it works for most terminal programs
<heat> ctrl+shift+c that is
<nshp> what does `:set mouse?` say
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<Ermine> Ideally that register should go through terminal
<Ermine> (ino)
<Ermine> btw yes, set mouse = will allow you to highlight stuff by means of the terminal
<heat> mouse=a
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<nshp> yeah, :set mouse= (nothing after the =) will let the terminal handle mouse-ing as normal
<heat> i can use the mouse, and highlight stuff with it, but ctrl+shift+c just doesn't work
<heat> i find using the mouse in visual mode to be a little more useful
<Ermine> with mouse=a vim will handle the mouse and go to visual mode
<nshp> whelp, can't have both :)
<Ermine> but that's separate from your terminal's highlighting
<Ermine> hence ctrl-shift-c doesn't work
<heat> sad :(
<nshp> blame vt100s
<nshp> silly things, not thinking of the future
<nshp> silly us for being stuck emulating them 46 years later
<heat> i'm slowly learning vim with neomutt
<heat> keybinds are hard :(
<GeDaMo> I don't think that Ctrl-C for interrupt is a VT 100 thing, I seem to remember DEC system 20 used Ctrl-Y
<Ermine> i use aerc btw
<heat> ctrl-c for interrupt is a unix thing
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<Ermine> it's all about line discipline iirc
<heat> i really kind of like neomutt even if its a PITA to set up
<heat> it works perfectly for the kernel workflow
<nshp> GeDaMo: not my point, the fact that vt100 didn't magically have selection stuff built in for a mouse it didn't have, or the fact that we're still rolling on a crap-onion with a vt100 at the center so that we have to implement selection in at least two different layers that are unaware of each other
<nshp> these things are the dumb :p
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<Ermine> gregkh uses mutt tho
<heat> i can and sometimes do use gmail to reply as well, if the reply doesn't have a patch inline
<nshp> I feel like I'm losing my mind when I think about how I run: vim with splits/buffers (and tabs) and selection and cursor movement and..., in tmux with splits/tabs/sessions and scrollback and selection and cursor movement and..., in a terminal with tabs and scrollback and selection and..., in a window manager with basically tabs and splits, in a linux vt subsys with basically tabs...
<nshp> all unaware of each other, all behaving differently and requiring different inputs... ^_^
<the_oz> I feel like I'm too stupid
<the_oz> dtach, ee, doas
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<heat> theo emailed me again i'm so cooked
<Ermine> ohnoes
<Ermine> why did you let him cook
<sortie> heat: Congratulations!
<Ermine> and what's the topic?
<heat> love letters obviously
<zid`> It was from THEM
<zid`> The secret society
<zid`> "Please join our evil organization. We need someone to run our FreeBSD cluster"
<zid`> (The evil OS of choice)
<sortie> heat: https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/networking/ethernet-switching/onyx/ ← Please help where is the download button?
<bslsk05> ​www.nvidia.com: OnyX For Next-Generation Data Centers | NVIDIA
<heat> OMG IT LEAKED??
<sortie> https://onyx.org/ “Onyxcoin (XCN) is the decentralised governance and utility token of Onyx. XCN holders can stake, vote, and pay for services on Onyx.“
<bslsk05> ​onyx.org: The Backbone of Decentralised Web3 Protocols
<sortie> Protip buy the domain before you name the OS
<Ermine> that way we could buy kernal.org
<heat> i have onyx-os.org
<heat> sadly kernal.org is ARMAGEDDON SOON
<bslsk05> ​kernal.org: ArmageddonSoon.com
<sortie> > Hmm. We’re having trouble finding that site.
<sortie> > We can’t connect to the server at onyx-os.org.
<heat> wait, i don't have onyx-os.org
<heat> yeah i thought about buying it but it felt lame
<heat> maybe i should buy onyx.io before the indian ocean territories go bye-bye
<sortie> oh god kernal.org is antimemetic I cannot read these walls of text and retain the information
<Ermine> sortie: tldr it describes some K-class events and assures you that they will start in like 2027
<Ermine> heat: .io is owned
<sortie> I literally own the book on antimemetics it's right around here somewhere
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<heat> onyx.xxx?
<zid`> is io still getting deleted
<zid`> or are they moving it to the vanity tld list
<nikolar> two letter tlds are reserved for countries
<nikolar> if it's to survive it will be transferred
<zid`> so deletedted then?
<nikolar> i dno't think anything concrete has been decided yet
<zid`> clearly it should move to .io_
<nikolar> the rules say that it should be deleted within 10 years
<zid`> oh, 10 years, ages
<nikolar> but they could decide sometihng else
<zid`> kick that can baby
<ramenu> 'https://kernal.org/' what am i reading..?
<nikolar> lol
<bslsk05> ​kernal.org: ArmageddonSoon.com
<heat> most businesses and projects .io will have failed in 10 years from now
<Ermine> systemd.io
<zid`> itch.io thou\gh
<zid`> I need that one to stay up
<zid`> cus how else will I play my free hentai gamez
<Ermine> just websuck it
<heat> systemd will be replaced by sortix init
<the_oz> erekernal.tech
<the_oz> kernal.tech
<zid`> systemd will be replaced by systeme duh
<nikolar> innit
<zid`> and be entirely in french
<sortie> heat: sortix init is secretly just a reskinned systemd for bsd
<the_oz> kernal.gg
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<the_oz> kerbl.cloud
<the_oz> ffs
<the_oz> you get the idea
<the_oz> kernal.lol
<nikolar> kerbal space program
<heat> kernal space program
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<Ermine> kerbal space program is an actual game
<heat> i know
<heat> kernal space program will be my next project
<sortie> kerbal space program is real.
<zid`> kernal space program
<sortie> what the fuck heat
<the_oz> are you saying kernal is fake
<zid`> you have a DSKY
<zid`> and need to get to space
<sortie> launching osdev into space is literally *my idea*
<sortie> god dammit our rivalry is getting cold war if we're competing for a cubesat osdev
<the_oz> oh dude I have a brilliant idea. We should launch osdev into farspace
<nikolar> zid`: dsky is only once you're already in space though
<Ermine> voyager software must be super reliable since they still work
<nikolar> i think they've even hot patched it a few times
<sortie> niht
<nikolar> niht?
<zid`> nikolar: So start the game in space
<nikolar> lol
<nikolar> > and need to get to space
<zid`> your computer systems experienced a strong magnetic field that wiped all your storage
<nikolar> you've won then
<zid`> your job is to land back on earth
<nikolar> oh you could do that manually
<zid`> and the control uoke is broken
<nikolar> i think they've done that with apollo 13
<zid`> you have to program the dsky for an autonomous landing
<zid`> frm space
<zid`> also no capsule
<nikolar> how are you going to survive
<zid`> entire vehicle somehow magically has fuel still, but the capsule is welded shut
<zid`> so you need to do a suicide burn landing
<zid`> true kerbal style
<heat> that sounds a lot of fun
<nikolar> heat: good, there's k/os or whatever they call it
<nikolar> you can program your rockets
<nikolar> (in ksp)
<heat> basically you'd need to bootstrap and reverse engineer the machine
<heat> then build a compiler for it, then software, then control the thing
<heat> all while locked in space
<nikolar> you should watch curiousmarc's series on agc
<zid`> can we make it occasionally glitch out
<nikolar> they basically did that
<zid`> and you have to hit the special WRENCH button
<nikolar> but on earth
<zid`> where the pilot starts smacking it all with a wrench
<heat> at the end you crash land successfully, but it turns out it's a spacex rocket and now elon musk just stole all the credit for your insane work
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<zid`> haha
<zid`> The credits is just portal 1's credits
<zid`> but it's elon musk dragging you away
<zid`> and some jackass points at his cybertruck and goes "cool car!", fin
<Ermine> nerdy disaster film
<zid`> horror movie*
<Ermine> disaster movies are kinda subset of horror movies?
<zid`> nah
<zid`> not canonically at least
<zid`> diaster movies are a subset of action movies
<nikolar> or comedies
<zid`> only if you're a psycopath, nikolar
<nikolar> only if the movie is really bad zid`
<the_oz> Some place make me question my morality because they're so awful. LA for example.
<zid`> You watched The Rock yet?
<the_oz> With sean connery?
<Ermine> nikolar: that's for apocalyptic movies
<zid`> My overriding memory of diaster movies is my sister crying at deep impact
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<the_oz> I remember my aunt crying at the Truman Show. I was semi-shocked
<the_oz> not aunt, grandmother
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<the_oz> But, yanno, you only have to hear the luciferian tale a million different portrayals before you're like jfc enough already. But I was a child then so I didn't get it.
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