klange changed the topic of #osdev to: Operating System Development || Don't ask to ask---just ask! || For 3+ LoC, use a pastebin (for example https://gist.github.com/) || Stats + Old logs: http://osdev-logs.qzx.com New Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev || Visit https://wiki.osdev.org and https://forum.osdev.org || Books: https://wiki.osdev.org/Books
<zid`> linux finally got feature parity with 3.11 for workgroups a couple of years ago, give them chance
<Mondenkind> remember when firefox literally changed their version numbering so it wouldn't seem like they were behind chrome
<heat_> market share: chrome 65% firefox 3%
<heat_> guys i think it didn't work
<the_oz> megasource 9000
<the_oz> because the number matters
<the_oz> >not even normies are that retarded
<the_oz> mozilla had furry numbering
<the_oz> android had tasty treats
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<the_oz> /*************************
<the_oz> * MESSAGE! *
<the_oz> *********************************/
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<kof673> i think some of those giant "header comments" dates back when people would print code (and not in color of course), versus any editor with syntax highlighting and color
<kof673> i am assuming at some point it served a purpose
<the_oz> *tears the edges off the matrix lineprinter, combines them into a centipede*
<the_oz> it was the height of design, padding for your terminal
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<sortie> I was able to boot my Sortix laptop to a root shell in 100 ms. I think that's reasonable.
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<nikolar> nice
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<vursc> how hard is it to modeset a specific ihd gpu to set resolution and get a dumb framebuffer?
<heat_> depends on who i'm talking to
<heat_> but the answer is, in general, "quite hard"
<vursc> newbie here. like, how much code would that be? (in 10 to the # power?)
<heat_> the problem isn't really the amount of code but the amount of crap you need to read
<heat_> and all the info you need to put together
<zid`> which may not exist
<vursc> yeah got the ~5000 pages last week
<zid`> it might be like.. 10 lines of code, but you need to figure out those 10 lines after reading those 5000 pages
<zid`> (and only work for a specific mode on a specific chip, at the end)
<heat_> like, if you're a newbie then going through 5000 dense page, and understanding what you need to do, isn't quite the most productive use of your time
<nikolar> Just take the multiboot or efi framebuffer
<zid`> How good is like, the efi mode list if you're on gma?
<vursc> shitty bios, 720p max
<zid`> 1024x768 max, or does i-
<zid`> fair enough
<zid`> (Also lol I am old, I spat out a 5:4 not a 16:9 by default)
<nikolar> Kek
<vursc> that's the reason I want the a-bit-less-shitty driver
<zid`> well, enjoy your reading
<nikolar> Also I'm pretty sure grub can set up a higher resolution for you if you ask for it
<nikolar> Or efi
<zid`> he says his efi only returns up to 720p
<zid`> I just asked him
<zid`> and that's what he said
<heat_> 720p isn't terrible
<vursc> yes zid is correct; not sure about grub tho
<heat_> grub uses efi
<zid`> grub just uses dpmi doesn't it
<zid`> or efi
<zid`> depending
<heat_> dpmi?
<zid`> pmdi
<zid`> protected mode display interface extensions
<zid`> the vesa 3.0 thing
<heat_> oh ok
<heat_> yeah
<zid`> where you do your int 10h but you do it from pmode and it has slightly better caps
<zid`> than regular svga
<bslsk05> ​github.com: managarm/drivers/gfx/intel/src/main.cpp at master · avdgrinten/managarm · GitHub
<zid`> I found this, maybe you can rip it off
<vursc> maybe I'll stick with qemu for a while until I get a new testbench
<vursc> ooh looks nice
<heat_> ok here's a tip: don't deal with this
<zid`> sounds like a fun project, but it is a big project
<zid`> so it'll be "what I'm doing" for quite a while
<heat_> "fun"
<zid`> yes
<bslsk05> ​wiki.osdev.org: Intel HD Graphics - OSDev Wiki
<heat_> the intel manuals are basically written by electrical engineers, incomplete, sometimes reference shit you don't know
<heat_> it's kind of hard to write a full driver from them
<zid`> you can help fill this out, afterwards :P
<heat_> and each manual set only covers a single gen. want more gens? time to fuck with your driver in ways you don't even know
<zid`> fuck full driver
<zid`> it just needs enough to read edid, write commands, set a mode
<heat_> read edid? even that's fucked
<zid`> the code I linked does it, looks easy
<zid`> I'd like that code too if I had gma
<zid`> I have nvidia though so it's 100x harder
<heat_> last i checked they had the GMBUS which sometimes works, sometimes doesn't (does some automated form of I2C)
<heat_> then you may need to handle display port's thingy
<heat_> DPDC?
<zid`> would need to initialize a fuck load more things
<heat_> and if its a laptop you're definitely using displayport
<zid`> or it's old
<zid`> and it's vga only
<zid`> :D
<heat_> D:
<zid`> I want my dvi-i back :(
<vursc> it's vga and hdmi, braswell with ihd graphics
<zid`> apparently intel arc has some dacs!?
<zid`> broadwell, presumably
<vursc> no, braswell. embedded thing with no L3.
<zid`> the fuck
<heat_> if you really want to fuck with it, here's previous experiment: https://github.com/heatd/Onyx/tree/master/kernel/drivers/igd
<bslsk05> ​github.com: Onyx/kernel/drivers/igd at master · heatd/Onyx · GitHub
<zid`> oh it's a soc
<zid`> pentium line
<vursc> yeah
<zid`> I know precisely fuck all about the pentium line
<zid`> I think it's catchall for a *lot* of things at this point though
<zid`> silvermont, right
<heat_> you'll notice how you also need to do fun things like parsing BIOS tables to make some sense out of your system
<heat_> it is truly one of the experiences of all time
<heat_> you'll read so much nonsense you'll just nod your head and keep going
<nikolar> Oh managram has an Intel GPU driver
<zid`> after you're finished, can you do it so it works on my 1050ti, and then the 2080 I am getting next?
<vursc> ok thx for the pointers. I'll save this for later
<heat_> intel gpu docs from at least 4-5 years ago have fun quotes like "your gpu may completely halt and need a reset if it takes a page fault" :D
<vursc> heard about it. driver on windows says something like "wrong config may damage cpu"
<zid`> well that's just because clocks and heat
<zid`> all gpus say that
<zid`> (and all cpus, gpu inside or not)
<vursc> true
<heat_> fwiw i think they have safeguards
<zid`> yes but also no
<zid`> obviously invalid stuff just won't work, the problem is accidently setting 1.7V instead of 1V, and having sufficient cooling that it survives for a few seconds
<zid`> but some deep trace explodes from the heat before it makes it to the sensors
<vursc> once put 12v on an 5v mcu ;) no fire, but broke the thing
<zid`> If you set it with the wrong endian or whatever and you ask for a 65537, it just doesn't work
<heat_> just clicked a random pdf on my downloads folder: "Frightening small children and disconcerting grown-ups: Concurrency in the Linux kernel"
<zid`> (Modern cpus like to hotspot like a motherfucker because of the power density, it's annoying af)
<zid`> I can't cool my chip because my cooler just isn't flat enough for the heat to get out into the metal >_<
<zid`> fun fact, power density of a cpu is higher than power density of the sun
<vursc> (clap) this one performs terribly but it's 6W and passive cooling
<nikolar> heat_: that's a great title
<nikolar> zid`: I assume that's the surface of the sun :P
<zid`> no
<zid`> sun is just fucking big
<vursc> embedded, man, embedded
<zid`> and not very dense
<zid`> tis basically a gas giant that's glowing a bit
<vursc> quote wikipedia:
<vursc> The large power output of the Sun is mainly due to the huge size and density of its core (compared to Earth and objects on Earth), with only a fairly small amount of power being generated per cubic metre
<zid`> surface of the sun is only like 5k
<zid`> and it's obviously, incredibly close to the core
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<nikolar> zid`: yes, but the core is up to 15000000 Celsius
<nikolar> And some ridiculous pressures
<zid`> right, so imagine how big the sun actually is
<zid`> if you can be *inside the sun* and still only 5000
<nikolar> Right, so we're talking about the power density of the *entire* sun
<nikolar> Not just the energy producing part
<zid`> given the only power disippation is radiative cooling out into the vacuum
<zid`> dissipation
* zid` gives up
<nikolar> Lol yeah got it
<vursc> hmm... quick calc gives 27W/m^3
<heat_> the sun's uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hot man
<vursc> really, a human can generate more heat than this
<nikolar> heat_, you'd know
<zid`> off by 10x, 276W
<zid`> it's written on the page
<heat_> nikolar would you touch the sun for 10 USD
<zid`> I would touch it for 10ns for 10 USD
<heat_> you're not fast enough for a 10ns touch
<heat_> probably
<zid`> You're the one handling the logistics, not me
<zid`> You need to teleport me out 10ns after you teleported me in, and then pay me my 10 USD
<zid`> heat_: You're old enough now that you should have your adult super-vision, you can probably figure out how to teleport
<heat_> uhhhh i need to talk to my local teleportation expert
<heat_> (local hobo wrapped in tinfoil)
<vursc> I got the 276W number, but the page also says 3.866e26W over 1.412e18 km^3. sth went wrong?
<vursc> maybe just too tired. I'm going to sleep now
<heat_> using java for 10 minutes or touching the sun for 10 hours?
<vursc> typo: s/3.866/3.846/
<zid`> heat_: java
<zid`> You don't *have* to write it like you have severe executive brainrot
<zid`> It's just fashionable
<heat_> but you also can't C++ it though
<zid`> I don't know that verb
<heat_> you need to be on the OOP copium at the very least
<zid`> does it mean "to put into a header flie and compile n! times"
<heat_> the json library i'm using is really good, i swear
<heat_> (it sucks complete ass)
<zid`> have you tried RUST
<zid`> new(move || {(())})
<heat_> that doesn't look like rust, it needs more !'s and . chains
<zid`> good news though, I am cooking some RICE
<zid`> bad news, is that once the rice is finished, I have to figure out what the fuck to cook to go *with* the rice
<heat_> rice-rs
<zid`> gentoo penguin slices are too expensive sorry
<zid`> I wonder what puffin tastes like
<zid`> nikolar: Wanna come to the UK on holiday? You can bring a net and we can go puffin hunting
<heat_> the UK is known for its great weather and food
<zid`> compared to portugal it is
<zid`> portugal isn't known
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<nikolar> zid`: sure, I don't have a net though
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<bslsk05> ​'AT&T Archives: The UNIX Operating System' by AT&T Tech Channel (00:27:27)
<heat_> kernighan has 20x more charisma than all the other nerds
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<zid`> still better than most youtubers
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<the_oz> the usual rice accompaniaments. onion garlic oil salt black pepper chili peppers...
<the_oz> protein is great
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<geist> Mutabah: hey, you wrote a cool rust os right? what was it?
* Mutabah is away (Sleep)
<geist> IIRC, Mutabah had a pretty solid rust kernel design
<heat_> geist!
<geist> hola
<bslsk05> ​thepowersgang/rust_os - An OS kernel written in rust. Non POSIX (45 forks/733 stargazers/NOASSERTION)
<geist> ah yes, excellent!
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<geist> might be time to finally try to futz with bare metal preemptive rust just to see
<geist> i had before but didn't really know how to lick the fully preemptive 'interrupts can futz with the same objects that are otherwise live' problem
<geist> also heat_ !
<heat_> hola
<heat_> i just found a slight imprecision in my terminal emulator that's screwing with nyancat
<heat_> it turns out line wrapping is done when outputting the next char
<gog> hi
<geist> gog!
<gog> geist!
<geist> and yeah sorry i haven't been on IRC much. Satisfactory happened
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<heat_> gotta love really old hardware and funny backwards compat
<geist> i'm starting to get my head above water
<gog> i nearly bought that for myself
<geist> yesssss it's really good
<gog> the factorio expansion is soon and my wife is getting that for me probably
<gog> it'll do
<heat_> >factory building game
<gog> i don't need another factory game that will surely ruin my life
<heat_> god darn it why do all programmers want to build factories
<gog> factorio is just enterprise webdev
<gog> you need to make a factory factory
<gog> then a factory factory factory
<heat_> adapter
<gog> yes
<the_oz> factorio has an expansion releasing in a week +2 days, embargo lifts in 2 days
<heat_> i should uhhhh get minecraft
<heat_> it's way more based than factorio
<the_oz> ergo the media push
<heat_> you know i started programming because of minecraft
<heat_> there was a funny mod called computercraft that added computers and scripting with lua
<gog> i started programming because of the cute socks
<heat_> and tha shark
<gog> yes
<heat_> blahaj goated
<gog> and i heard hatsune miku invented C and wrote UNIX
<the_oz> I started with private ragnarok servers
<heat_> dennis ritchie enjoyed doing nyanaynayanyanaynayanaynyanynaynyanyanyan when not working on unix
<gog> it's true
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<geist> i have run nyancat on my pdp-11 on a vt320, but i'm sure i posted that pic
<geist> it's quite slow
<geist> about 2spf
<nikolar> geist: still impressive lol
<geist> i think it's mostly because of the 9600
<geist> i haven't tried to set the rate to 19200. the switch on the back of the pdp is a bit fragile so i dont want to futz with it
<gog> are there pins you can jump with a bit of wire
<geist> it's a little rotary switch on the back of the pdp that has a set of sweepers that selectively shorts i think 3 lines
<geist> but it's barely held together. if it entirely broke i could yeah wire it manually
<geist> s/shorts/grounds
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