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<Ermine>
sham1: there's muon, which is C
<sham1>
And how is that working out for ya
<zid>
There's also make
<zid>
which is make
<zid>
recursively
<sham1>
No one is using muon
<sham1>
And as for make, recursive make considered harmful
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<Ermine>
sham1: Alpine linux uses muon to build meson stuff
<Ermine>
So, yeah, it works good
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<mcrod`>
help me
<mcrod`>
we’re interviewing a rust person
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<Ermine>
mcrod`: pour some cola on him to remove rust
<mcrod`>
good idea
<Ermine>
s/him/them/
<err>
were you abel to remove rust from him?
<immibis>
no no, you have to hook him up to a car battery to remove rust
<immibis>
that's how you remove rust from metal parts
<err>
but then you have to paint him, otherwise rust will come back
<sbalmos>
don't forget to take a wire brush to him
<sbalmos>
preferrably a high-speed Dremel
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* kof123
throws in rust rid
<kof123>
only zi d will get that joke
<kof123>
may be kazin
<vaxuser>
mcrod`: is that your replacement
<mcrod`>
no
<heat>
mcrod`, you're interviewing me??
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<heat>
vaxuser, yo how's the rust kernel going
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<mcrod`>
i’d just fire you
<heat>
mate i'd fire you first
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<sham1>
You're both fired
<sbalmos>
those who were in charge of sacking those who were to be sacked, have also been sacked
<vaxuser>
i'm the shareholder
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<vaxuser>
make me some god dman maoney
<vaxuser>
money
<sbalmos>
the sacking has caused us to declare bankruptcy. your share is worth more as toilet paper now.
<zid>
good for bed bath and beyond buyers
<zid>
if they can cash out in toilet paper
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<heat>
vaxuser, hello dear friend
<heat>
are you sure that POSIX requires atomic writes to regular files?
<heat>
the more I read it, the less I'm sure
<vaxuser>
i don't know if it does, posix is very loosey
<vaxuser>
some systems insist on providing them tho
<heat>
yes "If two threads each call one of these functions, each call shall either see all of the specified effects of the other call, or none of them" BUT they define thread as "A single flow of control within a process."
<heat>
and FWIW Linux does not exclude readers and writers
<heat>
on most filesystems at least
<heat>
didn't freebsd have a big rwlock over that? and a range thing you talked about?
<vaxuser>
freebsd is penalizing itself to facilitate this crapper indeed
<vaxuser>
linux is doing the same thing as long as one file handle is concerned
<vaxuser>
as in file object
<vaxuser>
this bit is probably required by posix
<heat>
yes
<heat>
they define threads as an in-process thing, I think
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<immibis>
zid: they can't cash out in toilet paper. share certificates aren't really a thing any more
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<bslsk05>
pubs.opengroup.org: General Information
<heat_>
but i think they weaseled themselves out of guaranteeing this in an inter-process fashion
<heat_>
through the use of "threads"
<mcrod`>
what I need is to be a better programmer
<heat_>
i agree
<heat_>
so i'm unfortunately laying you off
<mcrod`>
you weren’t supposed to.
<sbalmos>
heat_: that's some hefty severence pay you'll have to shell out now
<heat_>
we're a cayman islands based corporation
<heat_>
in 2 days we'll cease to exist
<sbalmos>
ah good point. i'll cancel my Holiday Inn reservation in Delaware
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<sham1>
Anyway yeah, as discovered, write actually is thread safe. In fact, it's async-signal
<heat_>
it's thread safe but not process saf
<heat_>
e
<heat_>
totally makes sense!
<zid>
atomically powered write will warm you up
<sham1>
Well that's why you do interprocess spinlocks
<sham1>
SPINNING!
<sham1>
Haha, lock go brrr
<heat_>
no, you use the great POSIX semaphores
<zid>
no, sequence numbers
<zid>
did you learn nothing from tcp
<sham1>
no
<heat_>
the only thing people learned from tcp is that you should poorly reimplement TCP in UDP
<zid>
yes!
<moon-child>
is there an equivalent of greenspun's law for this or something?
<moon-child>
'any sufficiently complicated protocol built on udp contains an ad-hoc, informally specified, bug-ridden, slow implementation of half of tcp'
<heat_>
heat's law: "any idiot computer scientist will make up their own shitty law and call it a shitty name"
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<mcrod`>
wow heat_ you’re a goddamn genius
<moon-child>
no he's an idiot computer scientist
<heat_>
The rule was written sometime around 1993 by Philip Greenspun. Although it is known as his tenth rule, this is a misnomer. There are in fact no preceding rules, only the tenth. The reason for this according to Greenspun:
<heat_>
Sorry, Han-Wen, but there aren't 9 preceding laws. I was just trying to give the rule a memorable name.[5]
<heat_>
this couldn't be funnier even if i tried
<zid>
Heat's 10th rule is that you do not delete the photo if it contains footballers' legs
<heat_>
no, you don't delete photos if they contain toned body parts
<zid>
ah not justthe legs, sorry, I had my scope too narrow