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<zid>
Nice that the schizos just let you know immediately
<zid>
rather than making you follow them down the rabbithole first
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<kof123>
there's an anubis atop the advent of code tree mcro d :D
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<mjg>
ey mofoz, anyone with fedora linux?
<gog>
no
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<zid>
gog: sickos.jpg
<gog>
yessss hahaha yesssss
<zid>
omg is gog a meme lookup service
<gog>
MQL
<gog>
mem query language
<zid>
and the results are in GMML, gog meme markup language
<gog>
yah
<gog>
i moved house today
<gog>
new house is nice
<zid>
new house is awful
<gog>
has some quirks that i'm going to either pester the landlord about or fix myself
<zid>
moving, mainly
<gog>
moving sucked yeah
<gog>
but we got it done in less than a day
<gog>
have to go back tomorrow to clean up old house
<zid>
It takes me 18 months or so to slowly throw things away
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<Ermine>
mjg: i'm with fedora
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<Ermine>
what do you want mate
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<mjg>
nuthin'
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<heat>
mjg ☕
<heat>
am i right fellas
<heat>
he never tells us what he wants
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<Matt|home>
alright.. i've been at this for a while and im just not sure how this is supposed to work.. stack memory is ordered, heap memory is unordered, whatever. how exactly does heap memory let you change it at runtime
<Matt|home>
for context: im trying to solve the problem of creating an array of n size with a commandline argument
<zid>
malloc(strtol(argv[1], NULL, 10))
<zid>
you're welcome.
<Matt|home>
.. any chance you'd be willing to walk me through that..
<zid>
...what?
<Matt|home>
like, i thought after you ran the compiler through C code all variables were given addresses
<zid>
int x;
<zid>
x has an address yes
<zid>
but the *value* of x changes at runtime.
<zid>
int *y;
<zid>
y has an address, the *value* of y changes at runtime.
<zid>
the *value* that y contains, is an address.
<Matt|home>
right. but for example, i cannot do something like: myarray[argv[1]]; ./program -arraysize 50;
<Matt|home>
that is very illegal
<Matt|home>
i don't understand how malloc or calloc fixes that
<zid>
I don't even know what you're trying to say with that
<zid>
argv[1] is an address
<Matt|home>
okay, bear with me
<zid>
you can't subscript an array with an address
<Matt|home>
the program is supposed to take one argument, which represents the size of the array. ./program -arraysize n , doesn't matter
<zid>
malloc returns a value for myarray to contain
<zid>
int *myarray = 123;
<zid>
myarray[1] = access memory at address 127
<Matt|home>
... i don't understand
<heat>
Matt|home, the heap is *dynamically* allocated at runtime
<zid>
which bit?
<heat>
dynamic implies you can allocate and free it
<zid>
There's two statements there
<heat>
with dynamic sizing
<Matt|home>
... okay. so the stack is allocated before runtime, and the heap allocates memory at runtime?
<heat>
static data (in the program's .data) is static, you can't change the size of it at runtime
<zid>
none of that is relevent to anything you've asked so far
<heat>
the stack also supports doing that btw
<Matt|home>
;_;
<heat>
with VLAs
<zid>
you don't seem to understand that.. memory addresses exist
<heat>
like
<Matt|home>
sigh. here, please be a little patient, im exhausted right now. i'll go ahead and write up everything in a pastebin
<heat>
int main(int argc, char **argv) { int array[atoi(argv[1])]; } is valid C99 code
<zid>
I'd think it'd b e more important to clear up the fact you don't seem to understand what memory is
<heat>
it wasn't before because compilers were bad and stupid, and it's bad code now because it's pessimal
<acidx>
it's spicy C99 code, but still valid
<zid>
rather than caring about heap and stack and doing writeups
<acidx>
(well, would need a prototype foir atoi(), otherwise it would be passed an integer rather than a ptr to a char)
<heat>
INTS ARE POINTERS
<heat>
CHANGE MY MIND
<zid>
like it genuinely seems like we need to bust out the postal address metaphors
<acidx>
heat: ints are usually 32-bit, pointers are commonly 64-bit
<zid>
completely untrue, acidx
<heat>
look at mr fancy here
<zid>
it's not even like, *remotely* accurate
<heat>
with his 64-bit machine
<mjg>
i print all my pinters wiht %d
<zid>
ints are usually 16bit, pointers are usually 16bit
<acidx>
there you go
<mjg>
and c programmers are usually 2 bit:X
<acidx>
late 1900s computing
<zid>
very occasionally you get a weird machine that is 32/32
<heat>
mjg, is that a non-binary joke?
<zid>
and on like, a tiny segment of thousand dollar chips, 32/64
<heat>
ANYWAY vax vax vax
<zid>
8bit micros and pointers don't exist might actually be most common...
<zid>
but then you don't really have "int" in the first place
<heat>
if it runs on a vax, it runs everywhere, that's what i usually say
<heat>
so if it doesn't run on your "64-bit" "architecture" then it may be that your architecture is not real
<heat>
ITS NOT A C FEATURE IF CL.EXE DOESN'T IMPLEMENT IT
<heat>
RIGHT??
<Griwes>
it;s commonly agreed in some circles that like 85% of the uses of VLAs is accidental, by people who thought that they'd get an error if the array size was not a constant expression
<netbsduser>
microsoft's c compiler if i remember rightly hews close to an antiquated C and doesn't implement things that have been around for years like mixing of declarations and statements
<heat>
that's not true
<zid>
no, microsoft's C compiler's issue was that it only supported C++99 or whatever the closest standard was
<bslsk05>
pastebin.com: /* For now, we are assuming an extremely standard game, will implement diffe - Pastebin.com
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<netbsduser>
it's to be expected as microsoft are C parvenus and were never part of its living tradition like the unix world was and is
<Matt|home>
line 13
<Matt|home>
im sorry to be anal about this, but just to be absolutely clear: that _is_ valid C code?
<heat>
yep, that's fine
<heat>
and valid
<zid>
it's gross, mind you
<Ermine>
You can always download clang
<zid>
VLA + trying to declare something inside a switch
<Matt|home>
thank you
<heat>
but in all honesty you probably want to malloc instead
<heat>
most uses of VLAs are just malloc for lazy people
<zid>
VLAs are banned in most codebases these days I feel
<zid>
They're impossible to police
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<Matt|home>
i don't know what VLA is, but i do like vs code :\
<zid>
[x]
<zid>
is a VLA
<zid>
variable length array
<Matt|home>
ah
<netbsduser>
Matt|home: i'm sorry but at a glance i believe you have written code which is neither accepted by most compilers nor syntactically sound by the iso standards
<Matt|home>
i just asked if it was valid and you said yes ;_;
<heat>
fyi vscode supports clangd
<heat>
that's 200% correct
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<netbsduser>
i haven't checked the grammar but i don't believe it's acceptable to have a bare declaration in that position at line 13
<netbsduser>
while if you encased it in {} it would be
<zid>
yea I think that's the case
<zid>
I'd n ever ever ever dream of writing code like that, so I don't remember the rules on where/how you can dec inside things like cases
<heat>
oh wait, there's a syntax error there
<Matt|home>
okay , { } seems to have appeased vscode
<bslsk05>
pastebin.com: Pastebin.com - Not Found (#404)
<zid>
no it was all dangling else things and quotes from the spec
<zid>
with references to gcc versions that were buggy wrt it
<Matt|home>
i've made the adjustments you guys said to, thank you
<netbsduser>
i still advise against VLAs
<zid>
I could probably find it by grepping my irc logs
<zid>
I still advise against declaring shit in ranom places, on top of VLAs
<netbsduser>
because in the solely acceptable case for a VLA - when you know that the size of the array is well-bounded - you could just as well use the upper bound instead
<Matt|home>
yep. with my code the way it is now, because the array was created inside an if/else in a switch, i can't seem to access it from outside
<Matt|home>
the scope issue i ran into last time
<netbsduser>
and if you use a VLA when the size is not guaranteed to be appropriately bounded, you are one of the 4 CVEs issued against systemd for doing so
<heat>
systemd
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<Matt|home>
so i guess i really do need to use malloc for this
<heat>
hurr durr
<zid>
malloc won't fix your scope issue
<netbsduser>
well systemd actually used alloca() in this case, but they are devil twins
<zid>
alloca is just vlas for linux nerds
<zid>
my mouse has ran out of electricity
<Matt|home>
alright, time for a break. i wasted six hours today basically writing comments -_-
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<Ermine>
rob pike said windows is better than linux
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* blockhead
wonders, did he step into 4troll by mistake?
<netbsduser>
rob pike says a lot of things
<heat>
Ermine, he's correct
<netbsduser>
he even said smalltalk spelt out words like "create" in its methods, rather than "creat", because there was no grep in smalltalk-80
<netbsduser>
he even said a lengthy piece which is called plan 9
<zid>
I only hear good things about rob pike
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<heat>
mjg, fyi i needed to organize some patches so i created a dir named patchen
<heat>
it won't be long until i start using it unironically
<Ermine>
heat: seems like I'm not too far away fron screaming "linux pessimal, windows optimal!!!"
<immibis>
why did grep prohibit spelling words properly?
<bslsk05>
commandcenter.blogspot.com: command center: Notes from a 1984 trip to Xerox PARC
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<netbsduser>
"The way defaults work in methods (isomorphic to procedures) is interesting, but necessary because the generality of the design leads to argument-intensive methods. There are too many big words, which stems partly from the lack of a grep (making it necessary to have overly descriptive names) and partly from a desire to have the language look a little like English."
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<heat>
gog, i took inspiration out of your efi makefile