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<arno11> Wizzup: i found why conversations UI is randomly so slow to start: the root cause is the tracker, and it affects most qt5 apps.
<arno11> disabling the tracker with 'tracker daemon -t' speeds up things a lot on the n900
<arno11> (i noticed that when you launch any qt5 app, tracker-store starts immediately and uses lot of cpu for a couple of sec)
<arno11> with tracker disabled, qt5 apps start really faster
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<Wizzup_> huh, why would tracker do that
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<arno11> Wizzup: really no idea :(
<arno11> but without tracker, qt5 apps start in 2-5 sec
<Wizzup_> maybe it's somehow atime related
<Wizzup_> do we mount with atime?
<Wizzup_> relatime
<Wizzup_> probably dbus can tell us
<Wizzup_> I haven't noticed this before, but I'll try to reproduce
<arno11> ok
<arno11> i haven't noticed this before too
<Wizzup_> freemangordon: shouldn't we use noatime?
<Wizzup_> or at least lazyatime
<Wizzup_> I mean relatime isn't necessarily our problem here wrt tracker, but I don't see why we would keep it enabled since we're mostly on nand/emmc
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<uvos> Wizzup_: tracker uses some cpu whenever something in the tracked folders changes which it watches via inotifywait
<uvos> it seams that in the default configuration its watching $HOME
<uvos> so maybe qt touches alot of config files
<uvos> regarless i dont think this antivirus like behavior is sane on a phone and we should restict its scanning tightly to some media directory
<Wizzup_> uvos: either that or atime
<Wizzup_> but I agree probably scanning $HOME is not great
<Wizzup_> I don't think it does that recursively though
<uvos> it somehow found random media in downloads for me
<uvos> so i think it dose recusevly
<uvos> or maybe thats from XDG places spec
<Wizzup_> you can find in gsettings what it searches
<Wizzup_> and yeah it does search some xdg docs/download stuff
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<freemangordon> yeah, maybe we shall exclude $HOME
<freemangordon> Wizzup_: why would noatime affect tracker performance?
<freemangordon> do you think it gets inotified on a file being read?
<freemangordon> Wizzup_: and yes, I also think tracker does recursive scanning
<Wizzup_> freemangordon: I don't know what inotify does with access time changing
<Wizzup_> freemangordon:
<Wizzup_> $ gsettings get org.freedesktop.Tracker.Miner.Files index-recursive-directories
<Wizzup_> ['&DESKTOP', '&DOCUMENTS', '&MUSIC', '&PICTURES', '&VIDEOS', '/mnt/sd/']
<Wizzup_> $ gsettings get org.freedesktop.Tracker.Miner.Files index-single-directories
<Wizzup_> ['&DOWNLOAD']
<Wizzup_> I don't see $HOME there
<Wizzup_> (/mnt/sd is what I added obviously)
<Wizzup_> I wonder if we awnt to play with 'throttle' and/or 'index-on-battery' perhaps
<Wizzup_> we could also set enable-monitors to false, but I think the inotify thing is mostly ince
<freemangordon> ok, maybe we shall start miner/extractor from the shell with verbose log enabled, to check if they really do something on qt app starting
<freemangordon> I am suspicious about the '...is randomly so slow...' part
<freemangordon> it either runs every time or not
<Wizzup_> mhm
<freemangordon> that could be just a coincidence that tracker runs when he tried to start an app
<freemangordon> actually conversations is qml, and afaik qml caches shaders
<freemangordon> that might somehow interfere
<Wizzup_> I doubt those are in any of the dirs in index-recursive-directories
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<arno11> freemangordon: i doubt it is a coincidence. when i say 'randomly', that's because sometimes conversations started in 8, 10, 15 or even 20 sec.
<arno11> now that's 2, 4, 8 sec max
<freemangordon> I see
<freemangordon> arno11: could you start tracker processes from console with verbose debug enabled to see what's going on?
<arno11> sure
<arno11> tracker daemon -s --set-log-verbosity=debug ?
<freemangordon> not sure
<freemangordon> there are several processes
<freemangordon> lemme check
<arno11> ok
<freemangordon> arno11: try first with /usr/libexec/tracker-extract -v 3
<arno11> ok
<freemangordon> and then immediately run some qt process
<arno11> ok
<freemangordon> as it will exit after 10 seconds of inactivity
<freemangordon> if nothing useful, then stop tracker-miner-fs and then start it by hand with /usr/libexec/tracker-miner-fs -n -v 3
<freemangordon> hmm, seems after all $HOME is monitored
<freemangordon> (tracker-miner-fs:5769): Tracker-DEBUG: 21:37:32.607: Received monitor event:3 (G_FILE_MONITOR_EVENT_CREATED) for file:'file:///home/user/orcexec.NDMv16'
<arno11> (dinner time) bbiab
<Wizzup_> it might be monitored but it shouldn't act on it I think
<freemangordon> why it is monitored if we dont act on it?
<freemangordon> Tracker-Message: 21:41:33.921: Setting up directories to iterate from config (IndexSingleDirectory)
<freemangordon> Tracker-Message: 21:41:33.921: Adding:'/home/user'
<freemangordon> Added monitor for path:'file:///home/user', total monitors:1
<freemangordon> so $HOME *is* monitored
<freemangordon> and it seems qt creates a file there
<freemangordon> (tracker-miner-fs:4012): Tracker-DEBUG: 21:44:33.736: Processing file 'file:///home/user/orcexec.THNr5D'...
<freemangordon> why the hell creates file in $HOME?!?
<freemangordon> *qt creates
<Wizzup_> what files are created there?
<Wizzup_> btw, I don't think it makes sense for tracker to be this realtime with its indexing
<Wizzup_> can you check your index single directory gsettings and see what they say?
<freemangordon> this ^^^
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<Wizzup_> freemangordon: what about your gsettings?
<Wizzup_> do they list $HOME
<Wizzup_> gsettings get org.freedesktop.Tracker.Miner.Files index-single-directories
<Wizzup_> and
<Wizzup_> gsettings get org.freedesktop.Tracker.Miner.Files index-recursive-directories
<freemangordon> user@devuan:~$ gsettings get org.freedesktop.Tracker.Miner.Files index-single-directories
<freemangordon> ['$HOME', '&DOWNLOAD']
<freemangordon> arno11: ^^^ could you check on n900
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<freemangordon> who with his right mind creates temp files in $HOME?!?
<Wizzup_> freemangordon: wow why is $HOME in there
<Wizzup_> I mean for single I guess it makes sense
<freemangordon> ies, it is in single
<Wizzup_> not sure actually
<freemangordon> *yes
<Wizzup_> in any case, maybe arno can remove the entry from his gsettings and see if it solves the problem
<freemangordon> I don;t think it should be there
<freemangordon> mhm
<freemangordon> this is the default I guess
<freemangordon> we can fix it
<Wizzup_> honestly to me it seems like we should set a 'crawling-interval' and disable enable-monitors
<Wizzup_> and maybe see that the 'throttle' key does
<freemangordon> no, please, why?
<Wizzup_> ( gsettings list-keys org.freedesktop.Tracker.Miner.Files )
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<Wizzup_> why, well, because it seems to in general wreak havoc on n900
<freemangordon> if we don;t monitor $HOME it should be better
<Wizzup_> sure
<Wizzup_> hopefully
<Wizzup_> but this could very well be why things are slow(er) during boot too
<freemangordon> and I prefer to have my music files indexed ASAP, not in 2 hours
<freemangordon> mhm
<Wizzup_> throttle is set to 0 by default (bad)
<Wizzup_> I suggest we set initial-sleep to something like 600 (seconds), it's currently 15
<freemangordon> agree
<freemangordon> well, 600 is kinda extreme
<Wizzup_> it's only 10 minutes
<Wizzup_> but fine, something high enough at least
<freemangordon> yes, lets make it 2 minutes initially
<Wizzup_> I think that's not enough for n900 to boot
<freemangordon> we can increase it further
<Wizzup_> I'd rather make it long first and then decrease if we find the boots are much better
<freemangordon> right, but combined with throttle will help
<Wizzup_> it might also make sense to set this to true:
<Wizzup_> gsettings get org.freedesktop.Tracker.Extract wait-for-miner-fs
<Wizzup_> also, the issue report I mentioned mentions tracker3, which I think we are not on yet
<Wizzup_> I guess I must have removed it myself
<freemangordon> mhm
<freemangordon> but still, I don;t see why temp files shall be created in $HOME
<Wizzup_> I can see why, many systems have some tmpfs set to noexec
<Wizzup_> whereas that is unlikely for something in home, but you'd still expect it to maybe go in .cache or something
<freemangordon> mhm
<Wizzup_> arno11: let us know when you're back, I think changing some settings will make all the difference
<freemangordon> I'd recommend to try changing throttle first
<Wizzup_> and remove home, initial sleep..
<arno11> Wizzup: back
<freemangordon> it should create in XDG_RUNTIME_DIR, not in HOME
<arno11> i'm ready if you want me to change some settings
<freemangordon> Wizzup_: ^^^
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<Wizzup_> hi
<Wizzup_> arno11: maybe try to set
<Wizzup_> gsettings set org.freedesktop.Tracker.Miner.Files throttle 20
<Wizzup_> gsettings set org.freedesktop.Tracker.Miner.Files initial-sleep 300
<Wizzup_> gsettings set org.freedesktop.Tracker.Extract wait-for-miner-fs true
<Wizzup_> and maybe remove the HOME entry from:
<Wizzup_> gsettings get org.freedesktop.Tracker.Miner.Files index-single-directories
<arno11> ok
<Wizzup_> you could skip the last part for now
<Wizzup_> in any case, I hope this will help with boot times and converstionst startup
<Wizzup_> freemangordon: I think we set XDG_RUNTIME_DIR,
<Wizzup_> don't we?
<freemangordon> yes, we do
<freemangordon> ok, I am a bit lost
<freemangordon> after a restart those temp files are no longer created in $HOME
<arno11> Wizzup_: ok, do i need to run other stuff or can i reboot now ?
<freemangordon> hmm, it seems gst creates them
<Wizzup_> arno11: reboot is fine
<arno11> ok let's go
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<freemangordon> Wizzup_: tmpfs on /run type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,size=401312k,mode=755)
<freemangordon> '/run' has noexec set
<Wizzup_> as expected
<Wizzup_> brb
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<freemangordon> well, but XDG_RUNTIME_DIR=/run/user/1000
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<freemangordon> and orc does fallback to $HOME
<Wizzup> well we don't want to remove noexec
<freemangordon> the question "where JIT compilers are supposed to write their output" is valid
<Wizzup> runtime dir is for pid files and stuff
<freemangordon> no, it is user specific
<freemangordon> run/user/$UID
<freemangordon> as is $HOME
<freemangordon> read the issue ^^^
<Wizzup> yeah I don't agree with lennart (as usual)
<freemangordon> ok, so, to your understanding, what is the correct place to put JIT compiler output?
<Wizzup> XDG provides none
<Wizzup> I'd probably use $XDG_CACHE_HOME
<freemangordon> $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR - ...The directory MUST be on a local file system and not shared with any other system. The directory MUST by fully-featured by the standards of the operating system. More specifically, on Unix-like operating systems AF_UNIX sockets, symbolic links, hard links, proper permissions, file locking, sparse files, memory mapping, ...
<Wizzup> I'm looking at openrc on my laptop and /run is not set noexec
<Wizzup> I wonder what sets it on devuan then
<freemangordon> Wizzup: we'll find that
<freemangordon> but lets first agree on whether it should be noexec or not :)
<Wizzup> note that none of the things mentioned above are hurt by noexec afaik
<freemangordon> memory mapping is
<freemangordon> because you cannot map with PROT_EXEC
<Wizzup> yes, so specific memory mapping doesn't I suppose
<Wizzup> in any case if gentoo openrc doesn't do it then I'm fine with not doing it on devuan
<freemangordon> maybe elogind make that
<Wizzup> that would be truly hilarious given lennarts stance
<freemangordon> mhm
<Wizzup> my debian server also has it set (noexec)
<freemangordon> my ubuntu as well (14.04)
<Wizzup> in any case I think this is pretty minor and I do think that tracker should not trip up over programs making tmp files in home
<Wizzup> I'm fine with it using home as scratch
<freemangordon> so, you think tracker shall not monitor $HOME?
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<freemangordon> I am fine, but I wonder if we reinstall tracker whether it will change the setting
<Wizzup> even if it does, it doesn't need to act *immediately* and hurt the ux
<Wizzup> there's no reason to find say a mp3 file within a second
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<freemangordon> what is the acceptable time?
<Wizzup> minutes or more imo
<freemangordon> not for me :)
<freemangordon> I WANT MY MUSIC NOW!!!
<freemangordon> :D
<Wizzup> I mean even now it takes many minutes for it show up in omp
<Wizzup> since we can write them faster than we can analyse them
<freemangordon> only on first boot/copy
<Wizzup> I really see tracker as a background thing that should eventually figure things out but not immediately
<freemangordon> then if you add more files it happens way faster
<freemangordon> but really, wating 10 minutes for your just copied music to appear in the player is very broken UX
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<Wizzup> I think that is currently already the case, but I have a big music collection on it (100GB or so)
<freemangordon> Wizzup: and you wait 10 minutes after boot on d4 for OMP to show the files?
<Wizzup> why after boot?
<Wizzup> it is available immediately of course
<Wizzup> no additional mining is necessary
<freemangordon> right, seems I misunderstood
<arno11> Wizzup: unfortunately boot time is still high and qt5 apps are still slow to start :(
<freemangordon> arno11: could you do /usr/libexec/tracker-miner-fs -v 3 -n and start that qt app
<freemangordon> to see if miner gets notified
<freemangordon> perhaps you should killall tracker-miner-fs first
<arno11> ok (i already stopped trackers)
<Wizzup> arno11: did you also remove monitoring HOME?
<arno11> Wizzup: nope
<arno11> i can try
<arno11> what is the command btw ?
<Wizzup> I need a few mins to figure it out
<Wizzup> I think just set with the values you want to keep in quotes
<Wizzup> but maybe make sure that killing trackers indeed solves it
<Wizzup> I didn't expect boot time not to be high, but maybe to at least be a bit better
<arno11> freemangordon: sorry, tracker miner fs returns too much things. i can't find anything relevant atm. (just my n900 around)
<arno11> Wizzup: ok
<Wizzup> I'll try to look at my n900 as well
<arno11> Wizzup: i'm still not able to remove $HOME, need to check how exactly gsettings commands work lol
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<uvos> eh honestly i think it might be better to just disable inotify indexing entirely by default and provide a "scan for media" button in omp...
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<Wizzup> uvos: yeah maybe
<Wizzup> it might also ultimately get better from tracker3
<Wizzup> I just think we should for now try to minimise the time we spend on it
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<inky> folks, so i need/want to revive 'tablet mode' on maemo. i need it to be in airplane mode but still have wifi.
<inky> for that there was this project, and with my changes it now builds, here its xml: https://github.com/norayr/cell-modem-ui/blob/main/etc/systemui/cell-modem-ui.xml
<inky> when it builds, the xml is symlinked to /etc/systemui.
<uvos> airplane mode needs to be changed to only disable cellular (i dont think it works atm anyhow)
<uvos> the rules have changed for airplanes and thus all modern phones work this way
<inky> it looks like com.nokia.phone.SSC is not available but com.nokia.cellular_ui is present.
<uvos> i dont think any of this works yet
<uvos> if you want to disable the radio your going to have to ask ofono directly for now
<inky> without dbus?
<uvos> no via dbus, but via its own interface
<uvos> or use ofono-scripts
<uvos> wich will call the dbus interface for you
<inky> i have no idea how to do that. i can figure out i think but i have no background.
<Wizzup> inky: I think we should just update our icd2 to make offline mode allow wifi
<Wizzup> there's no need to have a mode with wifi and modem off I think
<inky> yeah please do that.
<Wizzup> uvos: btw yes offline mode works fine
<Wizzup> it turns off both wifi and modem
<Wizzup> I use it frequently
<uvos> who turns off the modem?
<uvos> inky: i cant look right now but it think the script to turn off the modem is /etc/ofono/scripts/disable-modem.sh or someting obvious like that
<Wizzup> uvos: cellulard
<Wizzup> iirc
<inky> okay, i think we don't need new entry in systemui menu if the offline mode can be modified.
<inky> tablet mode may overcomplicate things.
<inky> and what i was able to build anyway is not showing up. not only doesn't work but doesn't show up in menu.
<uvos> Wizzup: i dont see it
<inky> thank you for the tor-applet i use it always and it works perfectly. i also modified it a bit and use on my laptop.
<uvos> Wizzup: im not sure anyone is calling ofono to depower the modem
<uvos> bu it gues thats easy to check on device
<Wizzup> I'm confident this happens
<Wizzup> src/libicd-network-ofono.c:flightmode_changed(dbus_bool_t offline, gpointer user_data)
<Wizzup> so it is in libicd-network-ofono
<uvos> its kindof a mess that bits of modem state are there some are in cellulard and some are in sphone/vcm
<uvos> Wizzup: also flightmode_changed seams to be noop or am i missing something
<Wizzup> maybe just try it
<Wizzup> when I put my droid4 in flight mode in the US the battery lasts way longer
<Wizzup> when I don't it keeps searching and the battery doesn't last as long
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<Wizzup> it's probably connui I guess
<Wizzup> in any case fmg probably remembers
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<inky> maybe it should be discussed. since our community is security oriented maybe some people would like to have full offline mode possibility.
<inky> though i turned off the modem on the pinephone prior to turning it on first time, but i never turned off wifi.
<inky> mac address randomization is another very important thing and i understand it is very hard to solve.
<inky> since icd gets crazy if the mac changes.