<midfavila>
i finally got a riscv environment running under qemu
<midfavila>
time to restart work on the kiss port
<midfavila>
it will be done cooking soon inshallah
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<sewn>
midfavila: you did not just use inshallah properly in a sentence
<sad_plan>
sewn: doesnt inshalla just mean god bless or something?
<kris_>
thoughts on sbase?
<sad_plan>
kris_: sbase is decent. but it does lack some stuff some people might want/need
<kris_>
yeah, was looking at the utility list
<kris_>
just checking out busybox alternatives, i had originally intended on using coreutils
<kris_>
soley because i dont like having two solutions installed at once when i inevitably need coreutils
<sad_plan>
I get that. sbase is simple and small. but it really only covers posix. so if your needs is outside of posix. you either have to use something else, or supplement sbase/ubase
<sad_plan>
been using sbase since late 22, and some issues come along, but nothing too combersum really io
<sad_plan>
s/io/imo/
<kris_>
do you have coreutils installed at all?
<sad_plan>
nope
<sad_plan>
only sbase/ubase
<kris_>
impressive
<sad_plan>
although sbase tar has been somewhat finnicky for a long time, so ive used openbsd tar/pax instead. I still do
<sad_plan>
kris_: sbase does not provide an init though, or a service manager, or awk. so youd have to supplement those in any case.
<sad_plan>
probably more, but thats whats comes to mind
<sad_plan>
supplementing those 3 atleast will get you started
<kris_>
ideally i can just patch out coreutil dependencies with stuff i'm packaging
<kris_>
i prefer busybox to everything else, i just also don't like hybrid utils
<kris_>
so far it hasnt been an issue but ive also only packaged maybe 1/10th of what i need
<kris_>
still need to package libvirt, virt-manager, nftables, elogind, eudev, xwayland, and xdg-desktop-portal-gtk
<kris_>
once those are met i can probably daily drive it
<sad_plan>
I eventually rewrote the init scripts aswell. theyre in the baselayout package. theyre written in rc though :p
<sad_plan>
Ill have a peak
<sad_plan>
xwayland is in kiss-xorg in any case. couple others aswe
<sad_plan>
ll
<sad_plan>
fetch kiss-find, its an easy utiliy to search for packages across repos
<kris_>
yeah, i found that the other day, it's more or less just pulling into my repo atp
<sad_plan>
yeah. if you rename kernel and kernel-headers to linux*, you can track it with kiss-outdated. just a tip :p
<kris_>
oh wow that's cool as fuck
<sewn>
sad_plan: no
<sewn>
it means "if allah wills it"
<sewn>
god bless means "allahuma barik" or something similar
<sewn>
kris_: why dont you upstream
<kris_>
upstream to where
<kris_>
at the moment i'm trying to keep everything that i use under my own control outside of kiss core / community
<sewn>
ah
<sewn>
lameee
<kris_>
a little bit, sorry <3
<kris_>
the thing that provoked this for me was being tired of others making bad decisions (not that i've seen any at all here)
<sad_plan>
kris_: you can use kiss-outdated on all your packages really. aslong as its listed on repology. it just has to match w/e on there.
<sad_plan>
sewn: I see
<kris_>
yeah that is an incredibly useful tool
<sad_plan>
kris_: I get why youd want that. I did so myself, to avoid the hassle of having to make numerous prs, and issues and everything. instead just create a system that works for me
<kris_>
i'll contribute upstream where rational to do so
<kris_>
the packaging quality for a few of the things on my repo is kinda bad
<sad_plan>
the good thing is that theres no need for quality control, when its your own repo. noone gives a shit but you :D
<kris_>
exactly :p
<sad_plan>
:D
* kris_
loves jalapeno cheetos
* sad_plan
loves static linking
<kris_>
statically linked jalapeno cheetos
<sad_plan>
hell yeah
<sad_plan>
have you ever heard of the claustrofobic austronaut?
<kris_>
i have not
<sad_plan>
he needed some space
<kris_>
lmfao
<sad_plan>
lol
<kris_>
i was fully expecting you to bestow upon me some deep philosophy with that
<sad_plan>
lol. no just me being punny
<sad_plan>
kris_: I do got a philophical question for you, now that you mentioned it.
<sad_plan>
in a tolerable sociatey, can we tolarate intolerance?
<kris_>
that there's a question
<sad_plan>
yep :p
<kris_>
i don't really know how to answer that or what my opinion is, generally i'm not a fan of restricting peoples freedom whatsoever but at the same time there *has* to be some form of regulation for the entire population to be as close to free as it can be
<kris_>
personally i don't tolerate intolerance but i'm also intolerant for doing so
<kris_>
kind of just a weird question idk
<sad_plan>
my point exacly. if we dont tolerate intolerance, we are by definition, intolerant ourselves. if we do tolerate it, we are also intolerant :p
<sad_plan>
its a bit of a paradox
<sad_plan>
intolerance, also has the tendency to grow, so by tolerating one persons intolerance, it would multiply over time :p
<sad_plan>
another funny question; if a tree falls in the woods, and noone is there to witness it. did it make any sound?
<kris_>
it both did and did not until one or the other is observed
<sad_plan>
logically, we can assume it did, because why wouldnt it. but its kinda like you said. its both at the same time, untill we can know for sure
<sad_plan>
its a bit like schrodingers cat
<kris_>
schrodingers tree
<kris_>
yeah lol
<sad_plan>
correct
<sad_plan>
lol
<kris_>
the "philosophical question" i've been trying to answer myself for the past while is where exactly the line between consciousness and unconsciousness lies
<kris_>
i did DMT on accident a few years ago and am still sorting that experience out and this is part of that i guess
<vulpine>
it stops being a paradox if you view tolerance as a social contract that gets revoked when someone is intolerant
<sad_plan>
interesting kris_
<sad_plan>
hm, interesting point vulpine
<sad_plan>
kris_: how exacly does one do DMT by accedent though? someone slip it into your drink or something?
<kris_>
smoking weed with this guy for like a year straight so one day he hands me what i assumed was a weed vape and i didnt question it
<kris_>
so yeah, i got drugged
<sad_plan>
good mate you got there
<kris_>
i never spoke to him again after that :p
<kris_>
i would have done it in a different context if he'd asked
<sad_plan>
yeah, suspected as much :p
<sad_plan>
well, sure. people might be more acceptable to things if you actually ask. as opposed to take away their choice
<kris_>
it ended up being a positive experience but i just can't with how much of a terrible person you have to be to do something like that to someone
<sad_plan>
people dont like that
<sad_plan>
on that topic, our choices being taken away - taxation is theft :p do you agreee, or disagree?
<sad_plan>
I have a feeling youd agree for some reason :p lol
<kris_>
its situational
<sad_plan>
I disagree. but go on, indulge me in why you think so?
<kris_>
i lean towards the anarcho-communism brand of politics personally for context, with that in mind i don't think it's theft if you also directly benefit from your population collectively paying taxes to benefit eachother
<kris_>
what i don't agree with is using taxes to bomb other countries and whatnot
<kris_>
if you aren't directly benefitting from the entire group paying taxes then yes it's theft
<sad_plan>
interesting
<kris_>
but you also shouldn't be forced to pay said taxes- you just shouldn't expect to benefit from the group if you choose not to
<kris_>
if you dont give you don't receive type of deal
<sad_plan>
yeah you see thats where the problem often arises if you make taxation voluntarly.
<kris_>
there has to be a rather strong incentive because humans aren't naturally generous
<sad_plan>
if someone on a street refuses to pay taxes, but benefits from the rest of the street doing so, hes basically stealing from his community
<kris_>
^^^^
<sad_plan>
are they not?
<kris_>
they absolutely are assuming this individual is fully capable of doing so
<kris_>
from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs
<sad_plan>
I was refering to people not defaulting to being generous.
<sad_plan>
that we are, selfing beings by design
<sad_plan>
and sure, maybe we are, but only up untill selfpreservasion really. youll kill your good friend neighbour, if it means youll survive
<sad_plan>
which is why theres always more crime in areas where theres poverty or generally bad living standards
<kris_>
yerp
<sad_plan>
my view on this is rather simple though; its theft simply by the fact that you dont get a say in wether or not you pay taxes. the goverment basically holds you at gunpoint and threatens you with imprisonment if you dont comply. its basically extorsion
<sad_plan>
which brings me to another funny thing; being arrested = kidnapping
<kris_>
basically yeah
<sad_plan>
yep :p
<kris_>
idk, here in the US i feel like taxes are rarely used for something valid
<kris_>
living conditions aren't bad or anything but they're not great, while taxes are dumped into military spending
<kris_>
it's just weird
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<sad_plan>
this isnt unique to the US, where I live, the goverment wastes away the money on all kinds of stupid shit. although we have free healthcare, a support system which will prevent any citizen becoming homeless. if you loose your job, you should still be able to have a roof over your head, and food in your belly
<sad_plan>
it doesnt always work like its supposed to though
<kris_>
is dbus building for anyone at the moment?
<sad_plan>
kris_: have you looked at how alpine solves diskencryption? you were packaging some sysd stuff, and I belive alpine doesnt use any of that stuff. just an idea
<sad_plan>
but no, dbus doesnt build, nor have I tried. dont need dbus :p
<kris_>
alpines default encryption setup is not very good
<kris_>
the issue fundamentally boils down to grub being shit
<kris_>
the sysd stuff i packaged doesn't do anything other than provide an EFI stub and their ukify python script so you can just roll up the kernel, initramfs, etc into one file and let that handle everything
<kris_>
so no bootloader, allows for proper FDE, and works well with secure boot
<kris_>
(more minimal too)
<kris_>
(technically it still builds the entire systemd-boot bootloader and just never uses it, but we can ignore that for now :p)
<sad_plan>
I see. I wasnt aware of it being bad. figured they had a good system :p
<kris_>
there's usually no point in securing the boot chain as much as i normally do
<kris_>
there's also just no reason *not* to imho but yeah
<sad_plan>
the only critical part imo is /home. although encrypting / would be benefitial aswell
<sad_plan>
full diskencryption is best as you said
<kris_>
unfortunately i kinda need dbus so trying to sort this out at the moment
<kris_>
(also need xdg-desktop-portal-gtk)
<kris_>
trying to figure out what provides this for gnome-desktop: Couldn't find include 'GObject-2.0.gir'
<sad_plan>
glib should provide that
<sad_plan>
on chimera its glib-devel
<kris_>
okay, thought i had already built glib, guess not
<sad_plan>
maybe you need to include introspection
<sad_plan>
it was enabled in the buildscript for it
<kris_>
yeah glib was it for that one, swear i already built it but w/e
<kris_>
ah that might have been it considering i just built introspection
<sad_plan>
you can see it requires gobject-introspection. or glib-introspection iirc is what is called on kiss
<kris_>
yeah, i had already packaged gobject-introspection, rebuilding glib produced that .gir
<kris_>
for whatever reason
<sad_plan>
because you didnt have glib-introspection before you built glib. glib likely has a switch, so when you rebuilt glib, it picked up on you having glib-introspection installed
<kris_>
correct
<sad_plan>
yep
<sad_plan>
several packages has this, for convinience sake
<sad_plan>
in an attempt for people to not having to fork more packages than neccessary
<kris_>
shouldn't gtk+3 be producing Gtk-3.0.gir ?
<sad_plan>
maybe. probably need to enable something there aswell
<kris_>
who knows dude, seems like it should just be building
<kris_>
despite the fact that this hasn't been updated in 2 years it's still pretty much up to date
<sad_plan>
you are correct to assume it should be gtk+3. have you enabled introspection in gtk aswell?
<kris_>
seems like that's another one i'll have to fork
<sad_plan>
yep. youre probably going to end up with much more than youd expect :p
<sad_plan>
kiss disabled almost everything not neccessary. which is part of its thing :p
<kris_>
yeah, quite a bit of stuff for xdg-desktop-portal-gtk
<kris_>
and then need to sort out dbus not building
<sad_plan>
software complexity is a bitch. thats why I love simple things like oasis, and sbase
<sad_plan>
no bs software or something
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<kris_>
its chill, dbus is the only thing left that i need to get building
<kris_>
wouldnt be fun if i didnt have to fight with it :p
<sad_plan>
well, theres a caveat with simples software. expected things are missing. so while things like sbase would probably build fine on a 2000s phone, it lacks so much stuff that many things doesnt even build because of it :p
<sad_plan>
but yes, fighting it is kinda part of the fun
<sad_plan>
its even harder when I dont really know much C at all. and almost all of my system is written in C
<kris_>
hey, i mean, always something to learn ig
<sad_plan>
for sure. I just wish programming was a tad bit simpler to learn. maybe its just C that I find difficult. I dunno really
<kris_>
idk i feel like once you know one of them you know all of them
<kris_>
with obvious variations but once you can program its something you can do
<kris_>
blanket
<sad_plan>
well yeah, they say that. but I dont really know much aside from shell and rc. and Im not super good at either, but I usually manage.
<sad_plan>
I should probably just push through or something. Ive kept falling off on programming. getting a grasp on the basics shouldnt be that hard really
<kris_>
java was my first "real" language
<kris_>
imo thats a fine place to start
<kris_>
golang is probably what id tell you to start with now if i were going to tell you to start with something
<kris_>
but i'm also a go shill
<sad_plan>
I used to to some tutorials in python, which was pretty ok. I wrote couple fun things. and I just kinda stopped. I tried to get back on the horse with python, onyl to fall of off it again for some reason, I dont recall why. I fetched some books for C, and started with couple of them. got to write couple basic stuff for printing and some math stuff. but Ive never really gotten much further than
<sad_plan>
that really.
<sad_plan>
I was going to learn java. because of android development. but I kinda tossed that out, as C was more prevelant in my day to day doings. seeing as most of the stuff I use is written in C
<sad_plan>
not a huge fan of go, but I can see why people like it. easy to work with or w/e. my complaint is mostly the buildsystem I suppose. no offline building
<sad_plan>
I have the same issue with rust really. I like make make install, or ./configure make make install. but no autotools shite pls :p
<sewn>
AHEM
<sad_plan>
go away sewn :p lol
<sewn>
go has offline building.
<sad_plan>
did you get it? :P
<sewn>
rm -rf ~sad_plan
<sad_plan>
lol
<sad_plan>
clone a repo, run go build, fetches everything online. fr sewn?
<sad_plan>
what am i missing here in any case
<sad_plan>
?
<sad_plan>
same with tarballs. I get its like this on a git clone. but tarballs doesnt vendor packages needed. I know this was brought up before on couple projects, but people dont seem to bother with that
<kris_>
i feel like the requirement for the internet to fetch dependencies and stuff is an issue regardless of what you're using
<sad_plan>
my issue here is I fetch the tarball for, say github-cli. initially assuming I have all the dependencies installed. only to be met with a wall of text of go fetching dependencies
<sad_plan>
I should be able to do kiss download *, which should fetch all packages, then turn of the internet and go into a cabin into the woods with no internet, and do kiss b *, and everything should build just fine
<sad_plan>
and this is true for more or less my whole system, but not with go packages
<sad_plan>
except go itself though
<kris_>
fair enough ig
<sad_plan>
yeah. these dependencies should be vendored imo. but I suppose I could instead just get rid of github-cli and never use senpai ever again. and problem solved for me anyway :p
<sad_plan>
using github-cli is mostly only a matter of convinience really. not having to log into github to create prs and issues. instead being able to do all of this from the terminal
<kris_>
ive still not tried out senpai
<kris_>
weechat is so solid that i just dont bother with trying out other clients
<sad_plan>
I too use weechat, but mostly because it was already installed on tilde.chat. I cant really install anything manually here, without hassling by installing everything manually in $HOME. which is combersome if you ask me..
<sad_plan>
catgirl also only supports 1 server at the time, whereas now Im all of a sudden connecting to 3
<kris_>
fuck my brain, every time i see a 3 it's translated as ":3"
<sad_plan>
midfavila has probably ruined you :p
<sad_plan>
I shouldve used :3 now instead
<sewn>
wqtf
<sewn>
sad_plan using :3?
<sewn>
no way
<sad_plan>
lol, ive used it before, but its some time now tbh