<holycow>
wow, i guess i will be adding that to my todo now
<mrcom>
dbotton: You had POKE! You lucky devil, i was stuff with a 4k level-I basic.
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<mrcom>
And apropos "...but I'm not a *programmer*"--
<mrcom>
Had the horrible misfortune to work on a payroll system called "Cyborg".
<mrcom>
Basically a payroll system built, in VM assembly, for a virtual machine written in COBOL.
<mrcom>
The sales engineer had gotten very, very good at this assembly code. He was a big booster.
<mrcom>
"I can do this and I'm just an accountant, not a programmer!"
<mrcom>
Eye rolls all around.
<mrcom>
Same job, we had an actual accountant who discovered the command-line editor and where the source
<mrcom>
code for some reports were kept. They were in a nice "4GL" language, so she just looked at the source,
<mrcom>
figured out what she wanted, and make some changes.
<mrcom>
Did a very good job, too. Proper change-log entries and everything.
<bjorkintosh>
mrcom, what hardware was that on?
<mrcom>
Oh, and the changes worked perfectly.
<mrcom>
HP3000.
<mrcom>
Back in what is now the old days.
<mrcom>
512 kb mini with 120MB cabinet-sized hard drives. A dozen users on terminals.
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<mrcom>
No Lisp :)
<holycow>
mrcom: virtual macine written in cobol?
<holycow>
wtf?
<mrcom>
Yeah. It was brutal.
<holycow>
i mean, i guess, but ... okay wow.
<mrcom>
I had a friend whom I worked with who basically lost his job because he couldn't get it implemented.
<mrcom>
I got handed the pile of garbage. We basically just wrote a from-scratch system that did all the hard parts,
* holycow
youtubes hp 3000
<mrcom>
and just called this turkey for HRS * RATE calcs.
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<mrcom>
They were pretty popular for mid-size business computing. IIRC, ranged from 128 kB for Series II
<mrcom>
up to 64 MB+ for Series 70 (over a dozen years).
<mrcom>
Then they migrated the line to RISC-PA, and kept going.
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<holycow>
mrcom: heh @ that guy getting fired
<holycow>
i once worked for a multimedia company many years ago
<holycow>
owned by mexicans
* mrcom
suddenly has the urge to write a COBOL emulator in CL so can revisit nostalgic past. Better yet, an RPG.
<holycow>
incidentally the interesting part
<holycow>
anyway i got hired and they gave me a box full of parts and i had to build my own pc
<mrcom>
That's where I learned that the whole point of software development is to make the customer happy, not writing software.
<holycow>
i almost got fired because it took me 3 days to finish the build because i could not figure out an intermittent irreproducible issue caused by a bad cable
<holycow>
i mean, sometimes you walk into zingers you cannot do anything about
<mrcom>
Yep, another thing I learned.
<mrcom>
My friend got hired at a neighboring county w/ 3000s, so it was OK.
<holycow>
heh
<mrcom>
It was kind of a little community. A couple of municipalities and a couple of counties with HP equipment. Nearby college was
<mrcom>
kind of the lynch pin of the global usergroup.
<holycow>
the thing about learnign about computer history is that when i was a kid with a c64 i thought i was the "first generation" growing up with computers
<holycow>
turns out, way late to the party really
<mrcom>
The third city in the area had IBMs. They were "the other gang".
<holycow>
interesting to watch an hp 3000 boot up, never heard of those, introduced in early 70s. neat
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<mrcom>
Thanks for the link. (I could have sworn common-lisp.net was in my bookmarks...)
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<mrcom>
Those aren't quite what I was looking for, but still interesting. "logic synthesis" is taking truth tables and generating operation nets (and/or gates).
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<mrcom>
The granddaddy is an algorithm called "ESPRESSO", and its descendants. I can find C, Python, even Javascript, but no Lisp.
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<mfiano>
Hello all. I was just reeleased from the hospital a couple days ago. I am just hear to clarify Peter Keller's (psilord) message two days ago: he has caused tremendous emotional and pain for me and my family, and the reason I am no longer participating in Common Lisp publicly, nor open source. Him and his team, which includes |3b| and others, stole intellectual property of mine, renamed and relicensed
<mfiano>
it, under the repository colonyengine, along with numerous copyrighted assets not covered by software licensing. I am in the process of a civil lawsuit, and have been diagnosed with PTSD after a long stay. Now go ahead, and ban me or gang up on me, because I am alone now.
<mfiano>
just here*
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<mfiano>
Shinmera: you like the ban hammer. I'll be the first willing participant :)
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<Shinmera>
I don't, though
<Shinmera>
And see no reason to
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<Shinmera>
I've banned two people and both of them for very obvious bigotry and unwillingness to follow basic etiquette. I'm not sure why that makes me "ban hungry" or whatever dumb rumours have spread about me as a consequence
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<holycow>
you should unban them
<Shinmera>
No
<holycow>
you are not capable of juding bigotry
<holycow>
you are not god
<holycow>
unband them
<Shinmera>
Do you want to be banned?
<holycow>
i want you to unband them
<holycow>
are you threatening me?
<holycow>
go ahead i dare you
<Shinmera>
Lol
<Demosthenex>
who?
<holycow>
i dare you
<Shinmera>
Are you twelve or something
<holycow>
old enough to know a problem when i see one
<holycow>
you write great code but if you are banning people based on your interpretation of bigotry
<holycow>
you are not fit for being an op
<Shinmera>
Lmao
<holycow>
communities cannot ever be allowed to become personal fiefdoms
<mfiano>
There is good reason for at least one. I trust Shinmera
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<Noisytoot>
you can always create your own channel if you want
<holycow>
i don't
<holycow>
Noisytoot: i can. i can also tell the ops here when they are wrong
<holycow>
mfiano: glad to see you ar out of the hospital.
<holycow>
no one is alone.
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<mfiano>
ended up breaking two fingers from a seizure. I'm still not well. Suffering everyday.
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<Demosthenex>
hope you feel better soon
<mfiano>
I am taking the necessary steps to be around for my daughter and wife, the only people left in my life after this ordeal.
<holycow>
the only people that matter
<holycow>
does this channel have an op review process?
<Noisytoot>
mfiano: I don't see any relicensing in the colony repo (but I also haven't looked very thoroughly)
<mfiano>
That is because I made my github profile private at the onset of this dilemna. If you read the carelessly constructed wording of the /support/ directory, and realize all of the non-code assets authored by me as well, perhaps you may see something, but I am not opening up my account for any public review at this time.
<holycow>
mfiano: for any legal matters, i would recommend to not comment on the situation in public at all. just a statement that something is ongoing and that you cannot comment any further is probably the most strategically effective approach.
<cage>
mfiano: i do not know what happened, but i wish you the best!
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<mfiano>
Thank you. Much appreciated.
<holycow>
as a side point
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<holycow>
this is a very normal situation for cofounders. unfortunate, but happens all the time.
<Noisytoot>
forking and renaming isn't a violation of the Expat/MIT license, I'm not sure what the problem is
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<dbotton>
It is sort of the reason for choosing those licenses
<dbotton>
I hope people make tons of money with my code, of course I hope will give back :P
<holycow>
well, let's see how far it takes us dbotton
<dbotton>
I have been developing free software for a long long time and it has served me well
<dbotton>
the financial gains are made in other ways
<dbotton>
people fail to understand the value outside direct compensation
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<dbotton>
Back in the day when I worked as an engineer and hiring, any one doing free software was automatically top of the list
<dbotton>
you know his work,
<holycow>
the ecosystem of intrinsic value is important, i agree. without the contribution of an army of idealogues, i cannot imagine what the computing world would be like
<dbotton>
that is just one simple example
<dbotton>
microsoft?
<dbotton>
:)
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<zyd>
Noisytoot: also looking at the copyright of the original source code repository, mfiano isn't the only copyright holder according to the license file. One of those listed is one of the people he's apparently suing....
<zyd>
very odd.
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<aeth>
holycow: as far as I know, the objectionable comments were made outside of this channel, but they were made, and they're quite clearly and plainly objectionable.
<aeth>
at least with one of the bans
<holycow>
that is a completely unethical decision
<holycow>
the only ethical bans are threats of violence or general disruption of the channel
<aeth>
banning someone for comments made elsewhere is certainly controversial, but hardly "completely unethical"
<holycow>
the last one would have me banned as i am guilty of that of course and fair enough
<holycow>
it is absolutely unethical
<holycow>
you have no clue if any of us agree or not
<holycow>
and beside
<holycow>
's
<holycow>
who are YOU to decide who i want to interact with?
<aeth>
I don't think this is the place to argue it, #lispcafe may
<holycow>
fair enough, the judgement stands
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<bike>
i am also an op here, and if i had an issue with shinmera's moderation decisions i would have done something. the characterization as a personal fiefdom is silly.
<bike>
if you have an issue, please say something, either here, or in lispcafe, or in private messages. you can consult chanserv for a list of us with op privileges.
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<dcb>
this might be a good opportunity to realize that an online community/forum isn't a democracy :)
<holycow>
i will bring it up in lispcafe later and not polute this channel.
<bike>
we don't have any defined rules here because things are fairly slow and problems don't come up much. but if people want some we can probably make it happen.
<holycow>
well, i have abused those rules too much already. i will take it up there later. thank you for the follow up.
<aeth>
wait, what? I thought there were rules and those rules were published in 1994 and cannot ever be changed after that date (-:
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<dbotton>
I thought there was one rule stay on topic for Common Lisp technical issues
<dbotton>
I wasn't around for awhile but honestly it is the best part of this channel to me, it wasn't social
<holycow>
i have contributed negatively to that, i enjoy the chat. i will actually curtail that and agree with the need for this channel to remain technical. apologies to all.
<bike>
by "defined rules" i meant "rules that are written down"
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<bike>
but "stay on topic" is definitely a rule, yes. so i'm going to call this meta discussion closed for now. again, there are several venues if anyone else wants to follow up.