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<skin>
TIL how to do a shebang line for sbcl scripts
<skin>
#!/usr/bin/env -S sbcl --script
<green_>
anybody have success writing signal handlers in lisp for sbcl? trivial-signal isn't working at all for me.
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<skin>
you mean os signals?
<green_>
yes
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<green_>
I got the code to dump every thread's stack working nicely, and was wondering if I could have sbcl behave like openjdk, where you send it a signal and it dumps every thread's backtrace
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<dbotton>
yitzy your cl-indentify worked out amazing :) I only adjust a bit the default config and add prog1 and prog2, I'll send later. At some point I'll see about going back to &key. I used it to implement emacs style <TAB> and general file/selection tabbify - thanks!
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<dbotton>
(sorry that should be yitzi)
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<yitzi>
dbotton: glad it helped. If you find any other issues let me know. I'll think about &key when I get a chance.
<dbotton>
yitzi the emacs way is to place first key(s) after &key and if hit enter they are aligned under the e in &key and if add under them say &allow-other-keys it would line up with & if &key.
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<yitzi>
Yeah, I know. I prefer the aligning all under the space after &key, but whatever.
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<dbotton>
would be cool if we could do both options :)
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<beach>
I wonder whether I could use your stuff for Second Climacs. The constraints are not quite the same.
<beach>
For one thing, lines contain whatever the user put there, so it is a matter of computing indentation of those lines, and of a cursor on a blank line.
<beach>
Plus, most of the time, the forms in an editor buffer are incorrect.
<beach>
And something reasonable must be done anyway.
<dbotton>
beach, I use his code in exactly that way
<beach>
In an editor?
<dbotton>
yes in the CLOG Builder IDE
<beach>
I see.
<beach>
I should check the code.
<dbotton>
I will send you the code I use one sec
<beach>
Thanks.
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<yitzi>
beach: it is very simplistic. It doesn't do line breaking, or really know about the forms in question. You have to "educate" it with configuration files. It doesn't do any introspection or lambda list inspection.
<beach>
yitzi: I see.
<yitzi>
It was originally just aimed at being a CL rewrite of a scheme command line utility. The fact that it gets used elsewhere is cool, but there are significant limitations.
<beach>
Maybe I'll just have a look at your code and see what I can understand.
<yitzi>
Sure
<dbotton>
those limitations are actually worth while for a pretty printer not meant to harm the code
<yitzi>
That is true
<dbotton>
or to determine the next tab
<dbotton>
it is perfect for my editor needs
<yitzi>
I am glad. :)
<dbotton>
if I want more introspection I would "read" the code and then use CL to know what I need to know
<dbotton>
I wish there was ways to create "sandboxes" in a CL image
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<yitzi>
I should probably spend some more time investigating my skipped input idea for Inravina. If I could get that to work then one could aggressively beautify code with a pretty printer.
<dbotton>
that would be cool
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<yitzi>
The default pprint dispatch table in Inravina is much more intelligent than those in the current CL implementations. It does introspection and parses lambda lists to determine keywords, etc.
<beach>
That sounds good. With things like comments included, it could be very useful,
<beach>
.
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<yitzi>
Yeah, you'd still need an AST for sharp macros if you wanted to format a Lisp file.
<yitzi>
But those seem like a pretty simple dispatch entry for *pprint-dispatch*
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<beach>
yitzi: How do you know which template to choose based on the package of a symbol?
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<beach>
Hmm, I see that you start everything with a stream of characters.
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<beach>
yitzi: Actually, never mind. I see that I can't use the basic idea of starting from a stream of characters for Second Climacs, so I'll just look for ideas I might be able to use, like the templates for instance.
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<yitzi>
Correct. It is fairly limited and mostly designed to be a command line script.
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<beach>
I understand.
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<younder>
Sometimes I swear even C programmers know less about efficiency than we do.
<younder>
i wonder how float is stored, since it can fit a LOT bigger number than long long'
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<bjorkintosh>
you know a good number of C programmers are not goddamned wizards right?
<bjorkintosh>
it's just a tiny handful who are. the rest are interchangeable with javascript copy/pasters.
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<younder>
Well back when I was a C programmer we were all godamn wizards
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<younder>
Perhaps I sould take this to #lispcafe
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<pfdietz>
Trying to do random testing on Allegro CL, and remembering why I stopped.
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<reb>
pfdietz: I've noticed there are several Lisp ANSI test repositories. SBCL uses one for testing, you have another on GitHub, there's a third on Gitlab, etc.
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<yitzi>
reb: Are you asking a question?
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<younder>
Those Lisp consortium's died out in the 1980's. We are just a band of gun-ho go lucky wizards that happen to coordinate our efforts.
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<younder>
So far it's worked out rather well I think.
<younder>
Major 'victories include lparelell a most excellent library while not part of common-lisp did by 2015 include everything C++ plans to include in it's 2026 version.
<holycow>
it allows for rapid iteration of the higher order abstractions without commitment to any particular ideological view
<reb>
yitzi: Mostly just wondering if one repo is canonical. They seem to have diverged ...
<yitzi>
holycow: Most of the SICL documents are here along with justification.
<aeth>
but it's modular so other implementations could e.g. take its LOOP or whatever
<aeth>
implementations already may use portable implementations of complex things like LOOP
<younder>
You can use parts of it or all of it when you compose a Common Lisp. But it is also meant to stand alone if it has to,
<holycow>
i read a few of those, i don't fully understand them, apologies if this is off topic, i am hoping it is on topic
<younder>
FAIR SICL is spread all over the place and quite confusing at present.
<holycow>
so this isn't like the python 2 to python 3 thing where someone dictates the changes
<aeth>
personally, if I ever wrote an implementation, I'd use SICL's CLOS because there's no way I'm going on a multiyear Metaobject Protocol detour just to write an implementation because that (probably) wouldn't be the point of writing that implementation in the first place.
<holycow>
it is transforming the language into a framework that people can udpate as they want to whatever level they want?
<aeth>
(if it's modular enough for that, anyway... CLOS may be too core to SICL)
<holycow>
k
<holycow>
very meta but i think i get it
<holycow>
thank you very much for that explanation
<holycow>
my impression was libraries did most of that, so people can just ignore loop if they want to use iterate
<holycow>
i guess this actually creates an implementation by remixing. okay.
<aeth>
you are free to ignore CL:LOOP (but then it's pretty hard to do the equivalent of e.g. LOOP's collect/append without using a third party iteration library)
<aeth>
but if you implement a CL, you are not free to ignore CL:LOOP
<aeth>
I bring this up in particular because LOOP is complicated and because SBCL uses a third party LOOP, though probably modified over the decades. It's in the header comments. https://github.com/sbcl/sbcl/blob/master/src/code/loop.lisp
<ixelp>
sbcl/src/code/loop.lisp at master · sbcl/sbcl · GitHub
<holycow>
that is very useful to know
<holycow>
yitzi: maybe someone can take some of what was explained here and create a quick wiki doc or something? not a suggestion, just noticing everyone explained everythign here so it might be an easy copy / paste
<younder>
As it stands bike wrote a SICL interpreter and I am writing a optimizing compiler.
<holycow>
neat
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<younder>
SICL also needs a profiler.. Any takers? I suspect that is my next project.
<ixelp>
GitHub - robert-strandh/Clostrophilia: An implementation of CLOS and the CLOS MOP
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<dbotton>
" CLOG which is very newbie friendly but which requires ultralisp." - It does not require ultralisp, that is just a distro that is recent. You can use quicklisp and git, etc. younder - see the README.md
<dbotton>
" much further along than SICL." - as pointed out apples and oranges
<dbotton>
"I think CLOG is a awesome effort" thanks it is a ton of fun
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<younder>
So you do scan the history. dbottom - I stand by awesome but I would still use the ultralisp version as you develop quite rapidly and wouldn't want to be left behind.
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<aeth>
bike: what does it require?
<dbotton>
younder just git clone and pull before each use
<dbotton>
I do sometimes, I have some down time today no patients
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<younder>
Come to think of it I already do that.
<dbotton>
there is only one project that was updated from the last quicklisp
<dbotton>
that matters, fast-websocket
<dbotton>
I wrote a fix for it to handle large transfers
<holycow>
+1
<younder>
speed?
<dbotton>
everything still works without the fix but large files will crash your image until you use the update version
<ixelp>
GitHub - fukamachi/fast-websocket: Optimized low-level WebSocket protocol parser written in Common Lisp
<holycow>
i am now at the stage of learning how to manage state. i need to control the state of buttons, namely are they pressed or not
<holycow>
suggested reading for how to do that?
<holycow>
what am i googling for that? sate machine?
<dbotton>
holycow PM me
<holycow>
danke
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<Kingsy>
why.. https://bpa.st/UF3Q <- does this print GOODBYE? the strings are the same.. no?
<ixelp>
View paste UF3Q
<Kingsy>
you also cant use (string= ..) in the clause
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<dbotton>
has anyone written code for parsing ASD files? (ASDF is barely useable on windows outside building projects, have not been able to locate reason why loads of systems can be measured in minutes)
<Kingsy>
ohh nm I think I see what is happening
<Kingsy>
you can only compare against symbols. I bet its using eql
<Kingsy>
just ignore me
<yitzi>
dbotton: What are you trying to accomplish?
<yitzi>
Just speed it up?
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<dbotton>
I use now ASDF to retrieve the list of file, dependencies etc and display for the project view
<dbotton>
ie a clog project is the ASD file and has a /tools with an extension for handling .clog files (html with attributes for generating code)
<dbotton>
so the idea is to parse the ASD files without loading it, and in another thread load it if not already (it works perfectly outside windows)
<dbotton>
so that windows users are not sitting for 2-3 minutes waiting for their projects
<dbotton>
I have a feeling related to file access conflicts with ASDF on windows
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<yitzi>
How are you currently extracting the file list from ASDF?
<dbotton>
(there is another issue in that ecl uses it's own version of ASDF that is missing some functionality I use)
<yitzi>
I don't know if you are going to be able to speed that up. I was going to suggest Clasp's groveler, but that is basically the same kind of logic that you are using.
<yitzi>
The slowness is probably all in ASDF's registry logic and ASDF system creation. .... its pretty slow.
<dbotton>
Just going to have to do things the old fashioned way - READ it
<yitzi>
dbotton: READ or EVAL?
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<dbotton>
read the asd files
<dbotton>
note eval for sure
<dbotton>
not
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<yitzi>
Hmmmm. ASD files a LOADed...people could doing all kinds of strange things in them. Not the least of which is modifying *features* then using that in the same file in feature expressions.
<yitzi>
s/a/are/
<dbotton>
I will still offer my ASDF project view but this new project view will be a basic view that has to be conformant to my specs
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<yitzi>
ahhh
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<Kingsy>
Hi all, I amgetting thi debugger invoked on a LOAD-SYSTEM-DEFINITION-ERROR: Error while trying to load definition for system bordeaux-threads from pathname /home/pthek/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/bordeaux-threads-v0.9.3/bordeaux-threads.asd: This implementation is unsupported. <- when trying to quickload my app on a raspberry pi. I am guessing its because its an ARM arch. is there a way around
<Kingsy>
this?
<dbotton>
which CL are you using?
<Kingsy>
sbcl
<dbotton>
have you tried the UltraLisp version is newer
<Kingsy>
no, I just did a sbcl install and then installed quicklisp
<Kingsy>
bordeaux-threads is coming in via quicklisp
<dbotton>
if you run that it ads the ultraslip distro and then try again
<Kingsy>
alright.
<Kingsy>
why would this help btw? just curious
<Kingsy>
trying now though
<dbotton>
it may, if I recall though unless you are running ubuntu on pi you don't have threading
<dbotton>
arm is not the issue, the issue is the OS
<Kingsy>
ok added, so now I have quicklisp and ultralisp as dists
<Kingsy>
trying a quickload again
<dbotton>
since ultralisp was second it chooses ultralisp and falls back to quicklisp ditro for what doesn't exist
<dbotton>
in ultralisp
<dbotton>
quicklisp is getting very dated
<Kingsy>
I still don't see why a different distro would fix it though, if the OS doesnt allow threads it will still fail?
<dbotton>
I am not 100% sure that is the case or not and this way you have the most up to date
<Kingsy>
given mito is loading bordeaux-threads and thats pretty much what that does :D
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<dbotton>
now if fails you know is the OS
<Kingsy>
okie. well trying now
<Kingsy>
alrighty
<Kingsy>
so I guess if it fails now... here isnt a way around it? other than changing the OS?!?
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<dbotton>
likely but on PI that is not hard
<dbotton>
just do ubuntu for pi on a tf card
<Kingsy>
darn
<Kingsy>
yep ok
<dbotton>
did it work?
<Kingsy>
its still going.. this is a raspberry pi A, so its SUPER SLOW
<dbotton>
oh... :)
<Kingsy>
hehe
<Kingsy>
I wonder if I could just run docker on here instead of changing the OS
<Kingsy>
if this doesntwork
<Kingsy>
dbotton: thoughts?
<dbotton>
idk
<dbotton>
I needed full threading so did the ubuntu route
<Kingsy>
no problems
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<Kingsy>
isnt it weird that rasparian doesnt have threading but ubuntu does?!? rasparian is the official OS for the pi... seems silly
<dbotton>
It may have changed since
<dbotton>
but the rasparian I used had green threads but not native
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<reb>
I'm pretty sure Rasparian is based on Debian, so it has every kind of threads.
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<dbotton>
in past did not, but will see :)
<Kingsy>
same error
<Kingsy>
debugger invoked on a LOAD-SYSTEM-DEFINITION-ERROR: Error while trying to load definition for system bordeaux-threads from pathname /home/pthek/quicklisp/dists/ultralisp/software/sionescu-bordeaux-threads-20240313171425/bordeaux-threads.asd: This implementation is unsupported.
<dbotton>
sorry :(
<Kingsy>
haha absolutely zero luck I am having with this project :D
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<Kingsy>
reb: fyi it failed with the same error. don't suppose you have any other ideas? other than changing OS? sonds like from what you said that might not fix it either.
<scymtym>
Kingsy: is :SB-THREAD in *FEATURES* and what does (machine-type) return?
<Kingsy>
moment checking
<Kingsy>
so (machine-type) is "ARM"
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<Kingsy>
scymtym: https://bpa.st/4GHA <- *FEATURES* does not contain sb-thread
<ixelp>
View paste 4GHA
<scymtym>
my guess is that you are running SBCL on a 32 bit arm system. SBCL used to not support threads on such a system. i'm not sure whether that is still the case
<scymtym>
at the very least, the particular SBCL you are running does not support threads
<Kingsy>
doh.
<scymtym>
raspberry pi a seems to imply 32 bit arm cpu so you might be out of luck. maybe ask in #sbcl whether support for threads on such a system has been added in the meantime
<Kingsy>
ok will do
<reb>
I think you may need a newer Raspberry Pi model. You want to run a 64-bit OS.
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<Kingsy>
reb: yep agreed
<Kingsy>
thanks so much for your help everyone!
<dbotton>
scymtym sbcl supports threads on x86 (32bit) windows has for at least 4 years now
<dbotton>
fairly sure on linux as well even for arm