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<beach>
Hmm, the names of the possible values of the STATUS return value of FIND-SYMBOL are a bit confusing. According to the glossary, an "internal symbol" in a package P does not have to be present in P. This fact makes the specification of UNEXPORT somewhat confusing, because it gives the impression that an inherited (but not exported) symbol becomes present in the package, which is of course not the case.
<beach>
More accurate names (but I don't advocate this) of the possible STATUS return values would have been :INTERNAL-PRESENT, :EXTERNAL, and :INTERNAL-INHERITED.
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<Inline>
heh
<Inline>
imported is present, interned is just transitorily present in the package namespace
<Inline>
an internal symbol vs. an interned symbol ?
<beach>
Oh, right, I haven't read up on INTERN recently.
<Inline>
an internal symbol would be one present in the package namespace ( a property of the package )
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<Inline>
depends on where the import is, when you import it in the package description it's present in the package forever, when you import it from the repl it's only transitory
<Inline>
i suppose there are many gotchas with wording....
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<younder>
Hmm. Installed petalisp. Discovered that it wouldn't build. It's that Bordeaux-theads-2 again. I just reinstalled to ubuntu 24.04 so it bit me again. Does the standard quicklisp repo get updated?
<younder>
Git cloned it into quicklisp/local-projects and it runs now..
<aeth>
Usually monthly, but not since October
<aeth>
and it hasn't been monthly since 2021
<younder>
Well I've noticed xach is not around.. Any news there?
<younder>
Mind you, I don't exactly miss him much, but he was/is a devout Lisper. Quicklisp was a game changer.
<younder>
It does matter that it is maintained, however. Or we see alternate version managing repo's popping up. I see initiatives in Poland and Japan..
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<younder>
The lisp community is to small to afford to be fragmented on this I feel.
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<Josh_2>
dbotton: Hey, I have the strangest behaviour with a clog powered site I have. I am only using it to create 1 form but after a couple of weeks of the site running clog randomly stops working
<Josh_2>
network tab says 'connection successful' and a few seconds later 'WebSocket connection got normal close from server. Don't reconnect.'
<Josh_2>
If I restart the lisp image it'll stop doing this for a few weeks
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<Josh_2>
Has anyone here swapped back to SLIME from Sly?
<Josh_2>
SLIME has been getting a lot of love recently
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<younder>
grouse
<younder>
What are the new features?
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<varjag>
does it count if you never swapped forth in the first place
<younder>
No - to know the difference you would have to have tried both
<younder>
But in fact they are very similar.
<younder>
You wouldn't go much wrong one way or the other.
<Josh_2>
They are very similar, but Sly has the #v syntax which is awesome, plus tags and other features I haven't used
<Josh_2>
You can reference previous results in the repl using #v<n>
<Josh_2>
which is great
<younder>
Are you promoting Sly or SLIME?
<Josh_2>
I use Sly hence the question
<Josh_2>
Not trying to promote either
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<dbotton>
Josh_2: you tried with the latest clog? I have sites I have had running for years testing. Been slowly tweaking and addressing various situations caused in past mainly from bots looking to break in.
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<Josh_2>
I grabbed the latest boot.js but I am not sure what version of clog I am using
<Josh_2>
I have ultralisp installed and rebuilt the image a few weeks ago
<dbotton>
That would be soon enough
<dbotton>
Has that image come down yet?
<Josh_2>
I restarted it a few hours ago
<dbotton>
There is one issue testing for now when using long polling first
<dbotton>
But I have not been able to bring down the current image for 3 months
<dbotton>
Do you have any logs?
<dbotton>
If you can capture even the stdout and let me know what you see before a crash
<younder>
We have all heard the old story.. flood it with tests and coverage analysis. It does sound like a productivity killer though.
<Josh_2>
cl-isaac has been nothing but trouble :skull:
<Josh_2>
Those logs are from just before I restarted the image
<younder>
And it sucks for the web and in general for event driven apps.
<Josh_2>
I use safety 3 speed 3 debug 3 space 0 in my .sbclrc and I have had to report issues to cl-isaac multiple times because of it
<younder>
So I am curious. How do you shake out the bugs?
<dbotton>
Josh_2: will look later today
<dbotton>
If can post a ticket with log ideal but if not will pickup here
<younder>
Josh_2: hat is a crazy setting. Drop safety, speed and/or debug
<Josh_2>
Why?
<Josh_2>
Oops
<Josh_2>
sorry
<Josh_2>
I was wrong
<Josh_2>
safety 3 debug 3 space 1 speed 0
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<Josh_2>
enabling the slot type checks has caused build problems for a few commonly used libraries.
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<dbotton>
younder: not sure I have much more to offer beyond any testing done for websites and desktop GUI apps, clog itself because I am leveraging the browser has only a few internal areas that I test running around communication
<younder>
Narrowing the scope.. Hadn't thought of that
<younder>
But now that you said it is obvious. The number of possibilities grow exponentially with the number of choices.
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<younder>
s/it/it is/ s/grow/grows/
<paulapatience>
I've been considering porting the SLIME changes to Sly, but I haven't got around to it yet
<dbotton>
CLOG gets a very thorough workout just running the builder as a whole also
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<mi6x3m>
could anyone suggest why i get slot value missing when accessing a slot which is 100% in a class outside of the package
<mi6x3m>
the class' symbol name is not exported but the object is returned from a function
<bike>
how about the slot name? is that in the right package?
<beach>
mi6x3m: Packages are about symbols. Slots are named by symbols.
<beach>
So the slot name must be a symbol in the right package.
<mi6x3m>
so 'foobar::slot?
<beach>
I do not recommend that at all.
<beach>
In fact, I recommend not using slots at all outside the package that created them.
<beach>
Slots are implementation details.
<mi6x3m>
hmm this is for a unit test
<beach>
I recommend you use the accessors instead.
<beach>
If your slot has no accessor, it is clearly not meant to be used from the outside.
<mi6x3m>
yes that's actually a better strategy
<mi6x3m>
well i'd consider testing an exception but you're right, let's write some proper getters
<mi6x3m>
thanks this is the sanest way
<beach>
They are called "slot readers" and "slot writers" in Common Lisp terminology.
<beach>
Pleasure. Good luck!
<mi6x3m>
objection! the cookbook does speak of getters and setters :D
<beach>
I am sorry to hear that.
<mi6x3m>
haha
<mi6x3m>
I do plan on using with-slots in the implementation however
<mi6x3m>
in the package i mean
<beach>
I recommend using slots inside the package as well, but that's perhaps a bit exaggerated.
<beach>
I see no reason to use slots over accessors.
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<mi6x3m>
convenience actually
<mi6x3m>
with-slots allows quick binding
<yitzi>
I second the using with-accessors
<mi6x3m>
to setf-able stuff
<beach>
As yitzi says, with-accessors is preferable.
<yitzi>
Its just typing, and with-accessors is more general
<beach>
And there is no entry for "getter" or "setter" in the glossary.
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<craigbro>
I'm looking for library recc. a CLI option parser, supporting a hierarchy of commands, flags, short/long options, and varargs, and automated doc generation.
<ixelp>
GitHub - CodyReichert/awesome-cl: A curated list of awesome Common Lisp frameworks, libraries and other shiny stuff.
<paulapatience>
For some library ideas
<paulapatience>
I haven't used any of the logging ones so I don't know
<craigbro>
also, does anyone do vendoring of their dependencies anymore? aka, having a copy of the dep source code in their project repo (or git sub-module if you are modern)?
<paulapatience>
The only issue I had with clingon is that there is no way out of the box to have options with optional values
<paulapatience>
Yes, some do. clpm does
<craigbro>
aka an option that can take an optional arg? like --foo or -foo=bar
<paulapatience>
Yes
<paulapatience>
It's less useful in general, but I do like to use it when the design presents itself
<craigbro>
thanks, verbose looks to be my style for logging
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