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<jcowan>
It so happens that all existing CLs implement (quit)
<aeth>
I suppose the main thing uiop:quit gives you is not having to know which package it's in
<aeth>
Also, it probably takes a Unix exit code
<aeth>
(it does)
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<jcowan>
(cl-user::quit) is also universal
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<yitzi>
jcowan: except for clasp
<jcowan>
aaahh, I always forget to check clasp.
<jcowan>
I also forget that cl-user doesn't export anything
<yitzi>
We've got nightly build binaries for Debian/Ubuntu, Arch and Homebrew if that has been an obstacle in the past.
<yitzi>
I also didn't check LispWorks or Allegro.
<aeth>
my stance on the ridiculously high price (relative to modern expectations) of LispWorks and Allegro is that if they want me to test on their implementations, they can pay me
* jcowan
shrugs
<jcowan>
You can download an eval copy, which is what I do when doing cross-implementation testing
* edgar-rft
didn't know that LispWorks and Allegro have copies of EVAL
* aeth
wouldn't be surprised if they restrict EVAL to the paid version
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<gendl>
Hi, if i change user from root to a normal user with setuid, how can I also change the home directory to match (as per `(user-homedir-pathname)` )
<mathrick>
gendl: that's not a common lisp question. That's, at best, an implementation-specific question for a CL implementation running on a POSIX system. You'll need to be much more specific here
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<gendl>
yeah i was looking through the CCL sources and I suppose I'll have to do the same on any impl i want to use this way
<mathrick>
aeth: ahaha, I just looked at lispworks pricing, and they charge you twice as much for a 64-bit build as they do for 32-bit!
<mathrick>
not sure if there are other POSIX-compat libraries with any level of maturity out there
<mathrick>
it'd probably be a task for USER-INFO
<mathrick>
but then, I don't actually know how to accomplish what you're asking about in C, so you might want to ensure you understand how it's even supposed to work in the underlying OS before you involve CL
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<lips123mob>
mathrick: That’s because there is twice as much code in 64-bit applications
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<RPLACX>
Greetings, gentle-beings! I have a newbie question. CFFI discards doc strings in 'defcenum' declarations because the macro does not generate a new type and hence there is nothing it can attach the doc string to. However, the macro generates 'defconstant' for each enumerator (enum value) and this is where a doc string could be attached to. CFFI has no support for adding doc strings per enum value. Is it possible to add the documentation to the
<RPLACX>
constants generated later in the code?
<RPLACX>
Greetings, gentle-beings! I have a newbie question. CFFI discards doc strings in 'defcenum' declarations because the macro does not generate a new type and hence there is nothing it can attach the doc string to. However, the macro generates 'defconstant' for each enumerator (enum value) and this is where a doc string could be attached to. CFFI has no support for adding doc strings per enum value. Is it possible to add the documentation to the
<RPLACX>
constants generated later in the code?
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<RPLACX>
ops. double paste
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<RPLACX>
okay discard my question, found the answer in the sbcl source code. The 'documentation' returns a setf-able place and could be altered: '(setf (documentation name 'variable) doc)'
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<pve>
Shinmera: Hi, could Trial be used to make, say, an isometric rpg or rogue-like (think baldur's gate, perhaps with dungeon generation)? Are there any genres that are off the table? I'm trying to determine what Trial can and cannot be used for.
<Shinmera>
let's put it this way: it can be used for anything (except perhaps AAA games) as long as you're not shy to implement your own tools and whatever specifics you need for your game.
<Shinmera>
Except for Eco Tower and Factory Reset, all of these games were made with Trial https://shinmera.itch.io
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<phantomics>
Hey all, a question. I want to create functions that can be optimized for different numeric types. I.e. there will be versions of the function that are optimized to take and return unsigned ints with widths ranging from 8-64 bits. Is the best way to do this creating a macro that creates different versions of the function with optimization tags for each integer type?
<Shinmera>
What other way would you envision
<phantomics>
The functions will be composed together and used at a time when I'll know the type of integer that will be required.
<phantomics>
Shinmera: I was wondering if there was a way to use tags to optimize the math inside the functions for whatever type is in use, without having to duplicate the entire function via macro
<Shinmera>
"tags"?
<phantomics>
like (optimize)
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<Shinmera>
There isn't.
<hayley>
There would be something similar if you generate code at runtime, but not a macro.
<phantomics>
and (the), etc.
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<hayley>
I think you'd have to split and generate multiple functions, or generate a function which dispatches at runtime, if the dispatch time is negligible compared to the actual code.
<phantomics>
I see, what I want to do is have a selection of versions of the same function optimized for given int widths that I can choose as appropriate
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<phantomics>
Makes sense, generating them at compile time is the way to go then
<phantomics>
And the other question: is there any cross-implementation way to ensure that a value will be stored in the same register across function calls taking it or would I need to get into SBCL vops to have any such guarantee? And there's no cross-impl way to do SWAR operations, correct? Like rotating and addressing only the first byte of an integer register
<Shinmera>
lmao no
<phantomics>
You're pretty much limited to SBCL for real speed, then
<hayley>
SWAR is cross-implementation by definition, but no, you can't diddle the calling convention.
<Shinmera>
Not really
<Shinmera>
You can #+impl whatever you want, you know.
<hayley>
Not for reasons pertaining to SWAR or calling conventions, I think.
<phantomics>
SWAR requires ASM which requires impl-specific means to call, no?
<hayley>
I don't think we have the same definition of SWAR; the point to me is that you can arrange for data-parallelism using plain integer operations.
<phantomics>
I know some other impls have things similar to the vops but documentation is severely lacking
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<phantomics>
What I'm discussing specifically is the ability to encode multiple numbers in one larger integer, like storing 8 bytes in a 64-bit number. In order to individually (re)assign them I would want to rotate the value and read/write the first byte/bytes
<Shinmera>
Use ldb/dpb and hope the implementation is smart enough to do the right thing.
<hayley>
I'm not sure of that.
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<hayley>
Yeah, dpb would suffice. Without dpb you'd have to "mask" out the bits you want to replace, and then LOGIOR with the bits you want, after shifting the bits you want appropriately. No rotations needed.
<phantomics>
Thanks could be worth a shot
<phantomics>
If I'm going to typically process the numbers in series I would think rotation then assigning the first n bytes is the fastest way, since afaik the system can only replace the first 8/16/32 bits of the register value by addressing it as a smaller register
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<phantomics>
I would guess that dpb does some shifting of bits back and forth under the hood when you use it to overwrite an arbitrary byte
<hayley>
Consider something like (logior (logand (lognot #b11111111) A) (logand #b11111111 B)) to replace the least significant byte of A with B.
<hayley>
GCC generates similar code for "blend" operations on SIMD registers.
<Shinmera>
phantomics: You're worrying an awful lot about some extremely low level stuff without much of an idea about what the hardware actually does.
<Shinmera>
Personally I'd be very surprised if this bit shifting stuff adds much, if any overhead, at all.
<hayley>
I've also heard that, say, having a word in EAX and then poking at it by AL would confound OoO execution in the processor, and that they made...some move zero the upper part of the register, to avoid false dependencies.
<hayley>
But my memory of that is crap.
<hayley>
And in this case it is a true data dependency.
<phantomics>
What details of hardware operation am I not understanding?
<Shinmera>
I'm saying you haven't actually measured, and this stuff is very dependent on what a particular machine does in its microcode.
<hayley>
(disassemble (lambda (x y) (declare (fixnum x) (optimize (speed 3) (safety 0))) (dpb y (byte 8 0) x))) produces code similar to what I described.
<phantomics>
True, and a lot is also architecture-dependent. The pdb approach sounds like it'll work and if there are impls that have a problem with it I can default to a slower method for those
<hayley>
I suspect one would have to do similar on instruction sets with no instructions that process bytes whatsoever, such as MIPS 1 and ARM1.
<jcowan>
Indeed, I now take the (heretical) position that the time-honored advice "You don't know how fast it will be until you measure" is not longer applicable, and the last three words should be dropped.
<jcowan>
In general, the programmer has no clue what machine, or even what class of machines, their code will execute on.
<jcowan>
Big-oh analysis still matters, of course, but beyond that all is at the whim of the manufacturer and, in some cases, the quantum dice behind everything.
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<aeth>
it gets even worse if you have graphics acceleration
<aeth>
an AMD CPU and an Intel CPU are going to execute things roughly the same way between generations. Just 10% to 15% faster each generation and some new cores every few generations or something like that. And some new instructions you can ignore. And sometimes you lose performance to mitigations.
<aeth>
But GPUs?
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<aeth>
Now you're at the mercy of whoever's compiling some subset to run on the GPU, and at least 3 graphics drivers... per OS.
<aeth>
For architectures that can change completely between generations (or market segments in the case of AMD right now).
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<occ>
how to set background of a button in ltk ? is (configure button-1 "background" "green") right ?
<occ>
the compiler says there is no option "-background"
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<prokhor_>
question:
<prokhor_>
i try to read out lips statements out of a large file like this:
<Shinmera>
Because you're doing something besides what you pasted.
<prokhor_>
nope
<prokhor_>
read-line works btw
<Shinmera>
Good luck, then.
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<prokhor_>
thx :(
<Shinmera>
Just some general life advice: If you're already convinced of an answer despite people that you're asking telling you otherwise, there really isn't anything that can help you anymore except luck.
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<prokhor_>
Shinmera: at least i dont know about me doing sth besides that code
<prokhor_>
i am open for advice & willed to consider it
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<phoe>
prokhor_: which implementation is that?
<phoe>
what's the stack trace?
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<phoe>
what's the code that is loaded into the image?
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