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<jeosol>
jcowan: congrats. leaving a job is never easy. Most who are there see you are a traitor. It can be a difficult experience. For some others, it can be worse. I have heard of people's badge and laptop access being disable the moment the give notice.
<jcowan>
In this case they gave me notice
<jcowan>
basically AT&T runs out of money every August and lets go a lot of contractors, and then hires a new set (or the same set, whichever) in January.
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<asarch>
How can you create '(a . (b . c))?
<ultralitsun>
just like that?
<ultralitsun>
(cons 'a (cons 'b 'c)) ?
<asarch>
That gives: (A B . C)
<ultralitsun>
so does '(a . (b . c)) though
<ultralitsun>
[4]> '(a . (b . c))
<ultralitsun>
(A B . C)
<Bike>
(tree-equal '(a b . c) '(a . (b . c))) => T
<Bike>
(foo . (whatever...)) = (foo whatever...)
<ultralitsun>
^
<asarch>
(eq '(a b .c) '(a . (b . c))) → NIL
<Bike>
Sure, they're different conses
<Bike>
(eq '(a . (b . c)) '(a . (b . c))) => NIL in my implementation
<Bike>
try looking around with car and cdr to find a difference
<Bike>
(you won't) (they're the same structure)
<ultralitsun>
what's wrong with tree-equal?
<ultralitsun>
equalp will also tell you they're the same, asarch
<asarch>
I was reading Land of Lisp and it says that '(a . b) at some point is better than '(a b) because it saves memory
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<asarch>
So in a big app setting settings a la '(foo . (bar . baz)) could improve memory usage
<hayley>
It does, but for a large application I'd rather use a structure or a class, which will save memory, because the "keys" are stored in the class.
<White_Flame>
it's only 1 word per list
<White_Flame>
hmm, 2 words. But that's my final offer!
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<asarch>
And since I am writing the CRUD generator for my web app, I was thinking to use that for the type of the column in the model
<asarch>
I see
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* hayley
continues waiting for CDR coding revival
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<thomaslewis>
(a . b) is one cons cell. (a b) is two (a . (b . nil))
<beach>
Good to know.
<thomaslewis>
Was answering asarch from 20 mins ago.
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<asarch>
Thank you, thank you very much :-)
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<ultralitsun>
is there an ansi common lisp way to tokenize a string into a list of strings?
<masinter>
the online edition is friendlier, the docker edition has been neglected
<ultralitsun>
I kept trying to run gtk programs (emacs, eclipse) within docker containers, and had stability issues
<ultralitsun>
with Xquartz on macos and on linux, too.
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<masinter>
stability requires constant vigilence
<ultralitsun>
I didn't even troubleshoot it
<ultralitsun>
there's a way to disable the NAT/ip masquerading, maybe that would help
<masinter>
we run on macs with quartz
<ultralitsun>
I don't think I tried ssh-tunneling into the contain to run the x-clients
<ultralitsun>
I don't think I tried ssh-tunneling into the containers* to run the x-clients
<masinter>
it turned out to be more stable to run Xvnc in the container
<masinter>
then run a vnc client instead of an X server on the machine with the monitor
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<masinter>
online.interlisp.org runs lisp on an AWS insstance and noVNC client in the browser
<ultralitsun>
fancy
<ultralitsun>
I was just messing around but thought it'd be neat if it was "seriously possible" to "run everything in docker"
<masinter>
we set up a non-profit and are taking donations to keep it running, but so far the AWS charges are minimal
<ultralitsun>
did you compare the costs to oracle?
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<masinter>
well, AWS offerss $1k credit to non-profits
<masinter>
per year
<masinter>
which should cover us with people just playing
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<ultralitsun>
wow this is new to me
<ultralitsun>
I logged in as a guest
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<ultralitsun>
I feel like I'm in a museum
<masinter>
if you make an account we'll keep your files
<masinter>
it's intended as a museum exhibit
<masinter>
live
<ultralitsun>
is there a reason it's using west coast time?
<masinter>
it didn't immplement time zones
<ultralitsun>
oh it says it's 00:07 right now
<masinter>
the machine it's running on is in ohio
<ultralitsun>
idk says it's 13-aug-2022 00:07
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<masinter>
yes
<masinter>
that's right isn't it?
<ultralitsun>
that's not the time in ohio
<ultralitsun>
might as well make it UTC lol
<Shinmera>
Can we get back to Lisp, thanks.
<masinter>
try (eval 'il:|\\TimeZoneComp|)
<masinter>
(setf il:|\\TimeZoneComp| 5)
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<ultralitsun>
yeah that did it
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<masinter>
'night all
<ultralitsun>
thanks for the interlisp tutorial masinter
<masinter>
i used lower case setf instead of SETQ to stay within the group's limits
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<contrapunctus>
I've defined a macro similar to `defclass`, except it accepts an additional option. This option accepts multiple forms with a common grammar...is there any way to get tools like eldoc to display hints for this grammar?
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<jcowan>
hayley: We don't need no stinking revival! Medley uses CDR-coding because it has a fixed limit on usable memory (and even that is much bigger than the largest possible D-machine)
<masinter>
CDR-coding was for when RAM was expensive
<masinter>
i don't know why sybalsky increased the VMem size from 64m to 256m and kept cdr-coding
<jcowan>
Too hard to rip it out, maybe?
<masinter>
no, you could just have done (DATATYPE CONS (CAR POINTER) (CDR POINTER))
<masinter>
or maybe LISTP instead of CONS
<jcowan>
And then you have to rebuild the image from scratch, which until recently we couldn't do, no?
<masinter>
THey knew how to build new images, it's just things changed and we didn't really start with a clean delivery of a working system
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<masinter>
"software archeology" -- the pottery was in shards
<masinter>
i had "Software Archeologist" as my title for a while