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<contrapunctus>
neominimum: don't ask to ask, just ask 🙂️
<aeth>
but can I ask to ask to ask?
<mathrick>
neominimum: Usually it works better to state your actual question (or at least some general description of what you need) right away instead of waiting for someone to say "I am" :)
<aeth>
what's clog?
<mathrick>
oh, heh
<mathrick>
aeth: a CL GUI running in a browser (but it's an actual GUI apparently)
<aeth>
just remembered you can search that to find the authoritative location
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<gendl>
Hi, i'm trying both the latest and a 2021-01 versions of cl+ssl, I'm getting "No OpenSSL version number could be determined" everywhere I'm trying.. command line on the machines in question return either "LibreSSL 2.8.3" (on my mac)
<gendl>
or 3.0.2 on the ubuntu 22.04 linux host I'm trying to use.
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<gendl>
command line = `openssl version`
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<gendl>
Do I have to write a C program to test? It looks like in `ffi.lisp` that `OpenSSL_version_num` is something from C land.. ? any tips? (yes i installed libssl-dev).
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<gendl>
ok I think it's an issue with dumping and restarting CCL - I tried `(cl+ssl:reload)` and got `Error: The value #<A Dead Mac Pointer> is not of the expected type MACPTR.
<gendl>
> While executing: CLOSE-SHARED-LIBRARY,`
<gendl>
so I think I need to close any shared libraries loaded by cl+ssl during my build, before calling save-application.
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<dbotton>
neominimum: I have some clog experience what do you need ?
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<contrapunctus>
lol dbotton ;)
<contrapunctus>
I'm reminded of that comment which told stassats to check out SBCL :D
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<neominimum>
Hi dbotton, I believe I worked it out now but I was attempting to build an on-screen numpad and I was having trouble figuring out how to trigger keyboard events on the client side when a button was clicked. I ended up using `js-execute` and learnt enough Javascript to make it work. Not sure if it's the best solution though. Thanks anyway :)
<dbotton>
neominimum if you want draw a ticket with the code and happy to take a look and point out if any easier ways.
<neominimum>
Okay sure, I will do so tomorrow as it's getting late here. Thank you.
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<nij->
Any project that lets us write emacs bytecodes in common lisp?
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<beach>
Do you mean a Common Lisp compiler that generates bytecodes?
<Bike>
or like a LAP assembler
<nij->
The end goal is to customize emacs with common lisp - so a CL compiler that generates emacs bytecode, yes.
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<Bike>
well, i don't see anything obvious on google, so maybe there is not an assembler around, no
<nij->
That's what I did too.. ok.. :( thanks
<beach>
Maybe you can write a Cleavir backend that generates Emacs bytecodes.
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<Bike>
yeah that sounds pretty doable. i've been contemplating doing a bytecode backend myself
<beach>
I thought drmeister said you already have one. No?
<Bike>
i am not familiar with the emacs virtual machine, but it looks like it's pretty emacs specific. like you can't implement some of these outside the context of an editor, surely
<nij->
it was 2007. doesn't sound to remote from me unless I do the subtraction
<hayley>
Finished with a computing theory assignment half an hour ago, for which I ended up throwing together a program which would generate Graphviz documents from some data I was provided. Though I should have used cl-dot I rushed and just used FORMAT.
<hayley>
Horrid tip of the oh-wait-it's-tomorrow-at-12:30am: you can use ~{ ~} to destructure lists, if the directives inside use just as many arguments as you have elements in the list.
<hayley>
e.g. (format nil "~{~A -> ~A [label=~S]~}" '(a b "that")) => "A -> B [label=\"that\"]". It's nothing surprising, I'm sure, but a cheeky use of ~{ ~} when it might be only thought of for iteration (when there are fewer arguments consumed than list elements, and so iteration occurs).
<contrapunctus>
bitspook[m]: please avoid sending multi-line messages, it adds friction to reading your message and decreases the probability of their being read. Also messes up archiving and search.
<|3b|>
when cl READs source code, it INTERNs symbols into the current package (masically looking up the string it gets from the source in a hash table in the package)
<bitspook[m]>
contrapunctus: Sorry I didn't realize that. Will take care.
<|3b|>
*basically
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<|3b|>
so if the package is B (and named "B" not :b, package names in CL are strings)
<|3b|>
when it sees author, it interns the string "AUTHOR" into package B, making the symbol B::AUTHOR
<bitspook[m]>
Makes sense. I suppose I just need to spend more time with CL.
<|3b|>
or if there is already a symbol in B named "AUTHOR" (symbols are also named by strings), it returns that symbol
<bitspook[m]>
Also, what is the recommended way of achieving a `*conf*` in CL? i.e having a variable which represents application configuration, which can be changed by the user. I thought a dynamic variable will serve the purpose here (taking a hint from ELisp). I suppose I can still use this make make my keys strings instead.
<contrapunctus>
bitspook[m]: use Shinmera's Ubiquitous...or use keywords as keys...
<|3b|>
same thing happens when the package is A, either creating A::AUTHOR, or returning whatever symbol already existed in A with that name
<hayley>
Just that, but the user will need to be aware of package names.
<|3b|>
and distinct symbols with the same name aren't EQL in CL
<|3b|>
so if the symbols names AUTHOR didn't already exist in A and B, you created distinct symbols A::AUTHOR and B::AUTHOR
<|3b|>
when it sees a:author or a::author, it tries to find (or create) the symbol named AUTHOR in A, which is what you want in that example
<|3b|>
similarly, if you arrange for A::AUTHOR to already exist in B before it looks for it, it will return that symbol, which is another way to get what you want
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<ecocode[m]>
Hi. I love how CL enhances function definition (defun) readability by having a declaration string as part of the defun macro. I would like to have that in let statements too. Is there a best practice where to add comments for variable definitions?
<ecocode[m]>
especially, I love that emacs slime mode colors defun declaration string in another color than strings or comments.
<ecocode[m]>
hope my question makes sense...
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<pjb>
ecocode[m]: you can write comments almost anywhere, starting them with a semi-colon up to the end of the line ; comment
<pjb>
ecocode[m]: there's a convention where comments aligned with code start with two semi-colons ;; comment
<pjb>
ecocode[m]: section title comments start with ;;; and file comments start with ;;;;
<pjb>
; comment would be aligned on the right of the code.
<pjb>
ecocode[m]: there are also embedded parenthesized comments with #| comment #| inside the comment |# comment |#
<pjb>
ecocode[m]: (list #| a number: |# 42 #| a string: |# "string")
<pjb>
ecocode[m]: (list #| a number: |# 42 #| a string: |# "string") ; a list expression
<ecocode[m]>
yep, but it I would like comments for variable declarations to be as for function declarations
<pjb>
(let ((a 42 #| the 2nd order parameter |#)
<pjb>
(b -3 #| the 1st order parameter |#)
<pjb>
(c 33 #| the 0th order parameter |#)) (+ (* a x x) (* b x) c))
<pjb>
ecocode[m]: now, if you want to use strings instead of comments here, you will have to write your own `let' macro to do it.
<ecocode[m]>
your solution (#| |#) is pretty nice. now if only emacs slime-mode would color those same as defun declaration strings, that would be awesome 😉
<pjb>
ecocode[m]: you could teach emacs or slime-mode to use the right font-lock for those comments.
<ecocode[m]>
pjb: that is a nice macro !
<pjb>
The assert is wrong, it should be: (assert (or (null comment) (stringp comment)))
<ecocode[m]>
😲
<ecocode[m]>
it looks weird that common lisp has defparameter for global variables with declaration info, but nothing similar for local variables ...
<|3b|>
you can meaningfully query the documentation of globals, but not really for locals
<_death>
the latter are implementation details
<ecocode[m]>
I'll probably get used to this after a few more days or weeks of coding Lisp 😉
<|3b|>
(theoretically some could have been made queryable without too much effort, but requiring it to store docstrings for /every/ possible local, as well as some way to specify locals that aren't part of a global function, etc would probably be messy)
<ecocode[m]>
for now I put the comments about the variables as comments underneath the let statement.
<ecocode[m]>
still it looks ... ugly ?
<|3b|>
no, i mean a way to say (documentation '(local-variable A in the 3rd LET i typed into the repl this afternoon, no not that one, the one in the loop) 'variable)
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<|3b|>
like you can say (documentation '+ 'variable) or (documentation '+ function)
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<|3b|>
though syntax for adding docstrings to arguments (&key in particular) would also have been messy
<pjb>
ecocode[m]: local lexical variables are lost once compiled. you can't access them at the REPL.
<yitzi>
esocode: Please use paste service for code fragments longer than a line.
<_death>
to make it less messy, you can create a function containing the init form in the LET, and call it to init the variable.. like (defun create-dossier-tag-list (...) "Useful docstring here." ...) (let (... (dossier-tag-list (create-dossier-tag-list ...)) ...) ...)
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* |3b|
would probably put comments above individual variables in a LET rather than a bunch in the body of the let
<ecocode[m]>
yitzi: sorry for that
<yitzi>
no worries. Good lisp code should be indented, easier to read in a paste service anyways.
<ecocode[m]>
_death: that looks like an idea ! is that something widely adopted ?
<_death>
yes, extracting complex forms into their own functions is called (re-)factoring
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<ecocode[m]>
gonna try that ou !
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<_death>
sometimes the functions can be general, as in the case of the taglist form you got.. you can call that function get-program-output-as-lines
<ecocode[m]>
*out
<_death>
(or perhaps a better name.. thinking about the names can give you hints about what to extract and what to preserve inline)
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<_death>
(to be more precise, it is one form of factoring.. there are other patterns)
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<Shinmera>
mathrick_: enjoy.
<Shinmera>
phoe: you too
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<ecocode[m]>
Hi, is there a function to immediately end the execution of a script ?
<aeth>
return-from
<aeth>
or uiop:quit
<aeth>
depends on how it's structured
<aeth>
Or if you're doing it interactively and you don't want to close the Lisp, then the way to do it would be to (break) and abort from there
<aeth>
or (abort) perhaps
<aeth>
I think (abort) is probably the way to go
<aeth>
might not work if multithreaded, though
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<ecocode[m]>
aeth: `uiop:quit` does the job ! thx
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<gendl>
Hi, I started a saved CCL image with cl+ssl loaded, apparently is has libcrypto.so.1.1 in memory somewhere from the build, but the deploy machine has libcrypto.so.3,
<gendl>
if i call (cl+ssl::reload), then (cffi:list-foreign-libraries) now shows the correct openssl and libcrypto 3 which are on the machine
<gendl>
but then (cl+ssl::openssl-version-num) still fails with a "Shared library not open: libcrypto.so.1.1" error.
<gendl>
There is still something in the image which needs to be cleared and reloaded apparently.
<gendl>
does anyone have experience with this?
<Shinmera>
Try using Deploy, which takes care of unloading and reloading shared libraries.
<gendl>
thanks i'll check that out. I think this is something internal to cl+ssl though.
<gendl>
I am doing `(dolist (library (cffi:list-foreign-libraries)) (cffi:close-foreign-library library))` before calling save-application. I guess that's not enough.
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<Shinmera>
I've deployed cl+ssl using stuff with SBCL+Deploy just fine.
<gendl>
ok let me check it some more.
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<gendl>
I just determined that if I force reload cl+ssl from source (by tweaking its system name), then it finds the openssl version correctly. You didn't have to do anything specific for cl+ssl in Deliver?
<gendl>
i mean Deploy sorry
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<gendl>
i'm gonna get other things stabilized then go back and try Deploy when i'm not under pressure..
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