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<jmes>
Thanks for the info all of you, and the appropriate CLHS links :)
<jmes>
Sorry I dropped my question and ran off for a bit. The answer illuminates some neat behaviour, thanks! Now I should go delete some redundancy in my code...
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<dim>
Hi friends! I have another pgloader related question, with SBCL 2.2.6 (available in debian sid): An unhandled error condition has been signalled: deleting unreachable code
<dim>
does that ring a bell as something new that could happen when compiling lisp code at run-time?
<beach>
Are you sure it's an error?
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<hayley>
Yes, that doesn't sound like it should cause an error.
<beach>
I am asking, because "deleting unreachable code" is usually just a note.
<dim>
well you're saying that it's signaling a condition that pgloader code is choosing to interpret as an error?
* hayley
nods in agreement.
<hayley>
That sounds possible, but I haven't looked at the pgloader code at all.
<Bike>
where is the "unhandled error condition has been signalled" message coming from, exactly?
<dim>
I believe it comes from here, that's my best informed guess at the moment
<dim>
just a simple call to the compile function; is the list of conditions reported there documented somewhere? what would code that ignore warnings look like?
<dim>
or rather than warnings, sorry, notes
<beach>
If it is just a note, then that means that the compiler has been able to prove that some code is never going to be executed.
<dim>
yeah I'm okay with that, I don't know before-hand what users are going to provide as input for the command language
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<dim>
I suppose I could somehow arrange for producing lisp code where that never happens, it kind of sounds like the job of the compiler though?
<beach>
If that note is given in code written by the programmer, it indicates a defect. If it is given in some automatically generated code, perhaps not.
<Bike>
I didn't explain what I meant correctly
<Bike>
I meant, where is the message "An unhandled error condition has been signalled" coming from, not the error itself
<jackdaniel>
that note is annoying when comes from a macroexpansion, i.e `(if ,test ,something ,other) when the test provided by the user is constant
<Bike>
Because I don't think that's a message SBCL uses
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<Bike>
And I see that elsewhere in pgloader, in the main function, there's a handler bind on (and condition (not (or monitor-error ...)))
<Bike>
which doesn't have that message, but that would pick up a compiler note, since it's a condition and not one of those pgloader errors
<Bike>
I do not think that that handler bind is a good idea, becvause it will treat harmless stuff as a fatal error
<beach>
I tend to agree.
<dim>
yeah I think when I wrote that code I was still discovering handler-bind etc, and to be honest, I'm still a beginner in that area
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<Bike>
an sbcl compiler note is a condition but not an error. the program can proceed after the note no problem. so you probably don't want to kill pgloader just over a note
<dim>
contributions welcome, as always (either advice here, I appreciate your time and discussion, or even pull requests etc)
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<Bike>
(and error ...) or (and serious-condition ...) might be better, since those are things that require manual intervention
<Bike>
conditions in general are harmless
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<dim>
I also see now that compile name &optional definition => function, warnings-p, failure-p ; so maybe I should keep silent when failure-p is nil?
<Bike>
But I don't know if this is what the problem is, because it looks like the definition is different
<Bike>
er
<Bike>
The message is different, I mean
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<dim>
I'm trying to get my head around ignoring the notes but... well... I wonder if you'll find my current approach as horrid as I do:
<dim>
(let (c) (multiple-value-bind (function warnings-p failure-p) (handler-case (compile nil source) (condition (setf c condition))) (if (and failure-p c) (signal c) function)))
<beach>
dim: Why would you want to ignore a note that indicates a defect in the code provided?
<dim>
the user doesn't provide lisp code, I do, the user provides a higher level “command language” that I parse into lisp code
<dim>
also the unit tests work fine with SBCL 2.2.3 and fail with this problem with SBCL 2.2.6
<beach>
Still, that means that the command-language code contains a defect. Unless your translation is buggy of course.
<dim>
it used to work fine, and I want to get back to the thing just working fine, if that makes sense
<dim>
my bet is that my translation produced code that can safely be removed by the compiler... why would I prevent that from happening?
<beach>
Not really. It could be "working fine" just because that particular case was never exercised.
<dim>
yeah it was, it's the same test that works in 2.2.3 and fails in 2.2.6, and this has been fine with SBCL versions 1.x before that
<Bike>
could be sbcl deletes more code now
<Bike>
that it could have deleted before, but didn't, because it wasn't smart enough
<beach>
I guess I am not expressing myself very well. I am probably too tired.
<Bike>
a code deletion note can indicate problems. for a stupid example, if you have (progn (+ (the symbol a) b) (print c)), sbcl will note that it's deleting the print, because the + will always error
<Bike>
it can also be harmless, which is why it's just a note and not a warning
<dim>
beach: my understanding here is that there exists an approach allowing me to avoid the situation altogether by being smarter about the lisp code I produce ; now, that's some amount of efforts that would merely duplicate what the SBCL compiler is doing for me, right? so I guess you're saying I can't be sure that it's doing that on-purpose, and I'm saying I'm lazy enough to be okay with that, thanks to having a test suite
<Bike>
i think if you want to ignore notes that's probably okay in general, but your ignoring should not be dying with a fatal error as soon as you get one
<beach>
dim: My bet is that your code produces snippets that can never be executed only if the command-language source code contains such code. But I am just guessing of course.
<White_Flame>
from process-command-file, you're passing a pathname as the SOURCE parameter of run-commands, where it'll try (compile nil source). That doesn't seem to make much sense to me, and stuff like that might be the cause of some of your notes
<dim>
yeah and I don't have a memory model of condition handling in pgloader anymore, so instead of building it, I'm looking into how to “swallow” the harmless condition signalled in the call to compile
<White_Flame>
unless it's a function that just literally returns a pathname?
<dim>
White_Flame: there is an option that allows users to provide their own lisp code too, directly, it sounds related
<White_Flame>
oh ok, the comment does mention it can be a pathname, was reading the wrong thing
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<dim>
yeah no that's not what's happening, having another look
<White_Flame>
did you ever paste the actual error you're getting?
<White_Flame>
wow, so it just eats everything from the underlying condition
<White_Flame>
the assumption is that the parameter to COMPILE has the unreachable code?
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<dim>
yeah that's my assumption
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<NotThatRPG>
dim: Question -- shouldn't you be checking the return values of compile?
<NotThatRPG>
oh, I see you just made that change
<dim>
yeah I had another read of the CLHS and decided to process those return values
<NotThatRPG>
Reading the spec, though, I don't see any explanation of what COMPILE returns if it returns FAILURE-P as true. Is there any chance the function it returns will be NIL or some other bad value?
<Bike>
sometimes it can return failure-p but still return a function
<Bike>
since it returns failure-p even if there's just a warning during compilation
<Bike>
i would expect compile to always return a function (or name)
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<NotThatRPG>
Bike: What if the argument simply isn't a well-formed program?
<NotThatRPG>
s/program/function/
<Bike>
not closely defined by the standard, but in practice probably an error.
<Bike>
(as in a signaled error, not just failure-p return value)
<White_Flame>
sbcl returns a function,which blows up when called, as well as printing the compilation warning and error-p T
<Bike>
oh yeah it'll depend on how malformed we're talking
<Bike>
like (compile nil 4) technically has undefined consequences but will hopefully be an error
<White_Flame>
I passed in a not-lambda list
<White_Flame>
right, that blows up immediately as non consp
<Bike>
(compile nil '(lambda 4 4)) actually returns a function, on sbcl
<White_Flame>
(compile nil '(buh))
<White_Flame>
right
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<NotThatRPG>
Not sure if COMPILE is guaranteed to raise conditions or just return failure-p of T
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<Bike>
i don't think it is guaranteed to raise conditions.
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<rendar>
White_Flame, i just find it quite ambiguous
<White_Flame>
do you consider (let ((list '(1 2 3))) ...) ambiguous?
<rendar>
no, because i don't know what let is
<White_Flame>
do you find (defun my-append (value list) ...) ambiguous?
<Bike>
you don't know what let is?
<Bike>
you should worry about that before worrying about + meaning more than one thing
<rendar>
i find ambiguous referring to some parameter/symbol with + which is used for aritmethic add operator, maybe the most common operator used in human history
<White_Flame>
or even better, (defun my-append (values list) ...)
<rendar>
Bike, i worry, this is why i'm studying Lisp like crazy
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<Shinmera>
Please use #clschool for newbie questions like this.
<rendar>
ok
<Shinmera>
Thanks
<AadVersteden[m]>
aeth: it has a thumbs up! I did not know. cool
<White_Flame>
were those cursor keys?
<AadVersteden[m]>
good luck rendar. First some strange words to learn, then come the cool concepts!
<aeth>
it also has a 🯁🯂🯃 key
<aeth>
this is what modern Lisp systems are missing
<phantomics>
Was there ever any form of APL available on the systems using space cadet keyboards? They had all the requisite symbols (though not in the usual layout). That newer keyboard doesn't have them all marked but this original SC does: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cd/Space-cadet-closeup.jpg
<fitzsim>
White_Flame: is that keyboard real? do you have a link to the project page?
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<White_Flame>
it's called the Hyper 7, and it's a group custom order from some hardcore keyboarders
<fitzsim>
neat, thanks
<fitzsim>
(I'd like that, except slightly crazier, with the numpad and function blocks in the middle, so that the main keys were split, like a Freestyle)
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<ldb>
their custom keyboard is bloody expensive
<White_Flame>
anything custom is expensive
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<NotThatRPG>
Don't love the tiny spacebar, but otherwise I love the Hyper 7
<NotThatRPG>
Sadly, Hyper 7 is out of stock rn
<fitzsim>
did they sell it complete with the keycaps?
<fitzsim>
I saw some PCBs available, but finding the keycaps outside of a group buy is probably impossible
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<NotThatRPG>
Keymacs keyboard looks gorgeous, but is North of 1,000 Euros
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