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<lanefu> phytium comes TODAY
<buZz> the 750 usd box ?
<lanefu> yep
<buZz> too bad its not relevant
<lanefu> well thank you for shitting on my purchase
<lanefu> and my excitement
<buZz> ah hehe, i assume it was for building a armbian target ;)
<buZz> assumed*
<lanefu> UEFI armbian runs on it
<buZz> i like how its funding ptitSeb though
<lanefu> it comes with 16gig ram, but it can be upgraded to 32
<lanefu> really looking forward ot comparing it to my M1 etc
<lanefu> and finally an arm desktop
<buZz> hehe did you see that nvme story of M1?
<lanefu> yeah
<buZz> mindblowingly sad
<lanefu> TLDR don't use a desktop for a server
<buZz> yeah , dont use OSX for anything you want to function
<buZz> indeed
<buZz> thats the takeaway
<lanefu> nah it's fine
<buZz> you're trying to say apple -servers- dont run darwin?
<lanefu> well do we know that their NVME is the same as whats in a laptop?
<buZz> lanefu: did you even read your own link? it also happens on hdd
<buZz> making -all- storage on osx untrustable
<lanefu> well i know the flushing does
<lanefu> the same on hdd
<buZz> yes, if you -fake- to the user and OS that storage is completely flushed
<lanefu> poitn is whether or not its abysumal when you force sync
<buZz> that will lead to lost data, indeed
<[TheBug]> whoa its busy in here
<[TheBug]> did someone get a new toy?
<lanefu> anyway there will be folks like you that will not use apple for things like that
<buZz> lanefu is getting that 750usd 8core machine with pcie
<lanefu> and people like me that will, because it's fine for my use :)
<buZz> lanefu: yeah, most people arent american
<buZz> so fruitmachine is mostly irrelevant
<lanefu> okay
<[TheBug]> btw I had seen in some weird enviroments people use strange algs for disks that are worse than M1 issue, where if you don't sync before shutdown you lose gigs of data cause they purposely leave it cached in ram to not abuse IO on media
<[TheBug]> its just usually it's a choice you make as the end user specifically for your use case
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<[TheBug]> and that Apple seems to have made the decision for you without your input
<lanefu> yeah man write-back cache.. if you're RPO isn't to teh second
<lanefu> rock n roll
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<lanefu> *your
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<lanefu> anyway i understand the technicalities and the implications, but I don't think it's a crime
<[TheBug]> lets put it this way
<[TheBug]> they already have the t2 chip that basically makes your storage useless outside it's current machine
<[TheBug]> and means you basically will never get your data back if something happens to that t2 chip
<[TheBug]> so who really cares if stuff in memory is really being written to disk
<[TheBug]> LOL
<lanefu> yeah i mean that's why I have timemachine, vorta/borgbackup, and git
<lanefu> forreal timemachine is fucking awesome
<lanefu> my previous workmacbook had the shit keyboard
<lanefu> finally failed
<lanefu> went to apple store, guy was like you'll have to leave it for us to ship off
<lanefu> great
<lanefu> but i said fine
<lanefu> went to office, grabbed a older macbook we had used for interns
<[TheBug]> lol or you could have fixed it your self..
<lanefu> booted it for a fresh install over teh air, pointed it at my time machine on my network
<lanefu> and i had my entire owrkstation down the wallpaper from before i left
<[TheBug]> lol I am not a Crapple fanboi lol so your preaching to the wrong choir ;p
<[TheBug]> you're*
<lanefu> i'm an apple centrist lol
<lanefu> but yeah, i don't want to fix my own keyboard on a laptop provided by the company
<[TheBug]> Man if only the company had given you better hardware to begin with... :D
* [TheBug] is chuckling out loud as he trolls lanefu
<lanefu> i'll take mac over windows any day
<lanefu> linux sadly still not a practical choice for biz desktop
<lanefu> in my use case
<lanefu> too many different clients and tools etc
<[TheBug]> it is if your not always trying to be bleeding edge
<[TheBug]> I run a Linux desktop and it does me very well for most of my work stuff
<[TheBug]> I won't say that there are not tasks that I don't do in a Windows VM
<[TheBug]> but
<[TheBug]> for most part its a very viable work space
<[TheBug]> depending on your workflow and what tools / ide you are using
<[TheBug]> some are more memory hungry on Linux unfortunately
<lanefu> yeah nature of my work has my closer to the edge
<[TheBug]> well, just don't fall off or get cut :p
<lanefu> and also needing to be compatible with others so i can coach, train, help etc
<lanefu> haha
<lanefu> i mean i literally got that phytium to my home desktop/workstation
<lanefu> sooo
<lanefu> i'm not affraid to eat my linux dog food
<[TheBug]> well
<[TheBug]> tell you what
<[TheBug]> you play with it for a week
<lanefu> haha
<lanefu> all it has to do is work
<[TheBug]> and lets trade, ill send you Rock 3A 8GB, you send me your phytium
<lanefu> and not randomly shit
<[TheBug]> then in 2 months we switch back
<lanefu> that doesnt seem like the best bargain
<[TheBug]> LOL
<lanefu> i'll give you a shell
<[TheBug]> LOL
<[TheBug]> I want to actually see how it does as a desktop
<lanefu> even better
<lanefu> i'll give you an armbian VM
<lanefu> lol
<[TheBug]> and I figure you will see Rock 3A is quite capable and be motivated to get some mainline action going ;p
<[TheBug]> lol
<[TheBug]> thus why you will want to keep it for 2 months...
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<lanefu> lol
<lanefu> i need to quit dicking around with armbian and focus on lanecloud frankly
<lanefu> i mean im pretty much just in the background anyway
<lanefu> im doing too many things at once at it's catching up to me
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<[TheBug]> Sounds more like you need to setup a kanban or a task list and work through things to me more than needing to 'quit dicking around'...
<lanefu> LOL
<lanefu> i got plenty of tasks lists
<lanefu> todoist is my friend
<lanefu> also my stenopad
<lanefu> welcome to agile lol
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<[TheBug]> Though I am sure your wife would probably appriciate it if you kept things in your pants..
<[TheBug]> either way..
<[TheBug]> lol
<lanefu> [TheBug]: any quick pro-tips for nvme storage devices...... do i need ot partition and align etc?
<lanefu> or do i not bother with partitons at all
<Armbian-Discord> <B​olverBlitz> Is there a reason why all raspi downlaods are removed?
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<lanefu> @tonymac32 it's here
<lanefu> alas i must wait and stay focused for now
<lanefu> if i was dorky and did a unboxing and plugin livestream later would anyone care?
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Hahahaha I don't know. Mine is on the truck coming to my house I've been told
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> I love that FedEx didn't even attempt weekend delivery despite already being late 🤣
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<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> We account for nearly 5% of these boxes in existence assuming only a small number of sample units were made 🤣
<lanefu> yeah VIP
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<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> It's here
<lanefu> Drumroll
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<Armbian-Discord> <N​icoD> The phytium is just a phantom of your imagination. Nothing like that exists. The RK3399 is the best arm SoC and only the RK3588 is going to change that. All others I don't want to hear about.(already payed for the Rock5)
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<archetech> N2+ is faster runs cooler and has way better gpu Nico
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<Armbian-Discord> <N​icoD> But it's got terrible I/O. All round RK3399 is better. Only for CPU tasks the N2+ is better. And N2+ its GPU performs bad.(with panfrost)
<Armbian-Discord> <N​icoD> I do like my N2+ and VIM3. But they can't do what my M4 does with NVMe hat. I do wonder how the VIM4 will be. Double memory bus width, 2 x cores. And a lane PCIe extra if I remember well.
<vpeter> VIM4 is nice btw :)
<c0rnelius> Amlogic in general has bad IO
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<archetech> I use the n2 usb3 > spinner 2.5" sata for 1.5 yrs not one issue if I used a sat3 ssd it would be smokin fast
<archetech> and panfrost with wayland kde and gnome are great
<c0rnelius> its a sweet board. way good for compiling arm stuff on the cheap.
<archetech> I compile on it all the time so im callin out the bs
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<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> I used a USB3 ssd and a wifi card at the same time and crashed it instantly.
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Stuck HomeAssistant on it and forgot about it
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> It's a good chip, the board power handling is not so great though
<Armbian-Discord> <N​icoD> It could have been worse...
<c0rnelius> which version of mainline and patches are you using? It will fail hard if you don't force nomap.
<Armbian-Discord> <N​icoD> ... if it were a Raspberry Pi
<c0rnelius> if you don't force nomap the CMA memory pool won't be correct and it will crash under stress. Sometimes just at random.
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Mine failed due to power starvation, I had it instrumented
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> So I gave it a job that only needs the ethernet, it does more work than most of my SBC's as a result
<c0rnelius> ah. I have a 3A on mine I thinks? I can't remember exactly. I just know more then what was recommended.
<archetech> I use archdroid's tobetter sourced kerenl been solid
<archetech> kernel
<c0rnelius> I use his patch set.
<c0rnelius> tobetter's
<archetech> and his mesa-dele-git 22.1.0
<archetech> and his mesa-devel-git 22.1.0
<archetech> you guys use armbia stuff and some odd mesa source
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<archetech> obiaf pfft
<archetech> lucky that would run lxda well ;p
<archetech> lxde
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<Armbian-Discord> <k​.s.bedford.jr> lxde is it still around
<c0rnelius> I don't get why anyone is using an sbc as a desktop. To be honest.
<Armbian-Discord> <k​.s.bedford.jr> well for 1 less power
<Armbian-Discord> <k​.s.bedford.jr> and if all your doing is applications and your not doing gaming why not
<archetech> cuz wayland on the G52 is unbeatable nothing comes close
<c0rnelius> I've been playing around with the radxa zero and pushing videos to it. But its mostly just to see what it would do. I don't believe its gonna be up to snuff anytimr soon.
<Armbian-Discord> <k​.s.bedford.jr> I thin the Nanopc-t4 is a great desktop unit
<archetech> thats g31 its not bad but about half a g52
<Armbian-Discord> <k​.s.bedford.jr> it runds all the major apps and have a nvme slot on board
<c0rnelius> From my testing none of them can play x265 vids stable. Unless using something very niche like LE or CE.
<Armbian-Discord> <k​.s.bedford.jr> if your going to do video editing then you need octocore and more ram
<Armbian-Discord> <k​.s.bedford.jr> thats because mesa drivers are still being worked on
<Armbian-Discord> <k​.s.bedford.jr> arm is still a child compaired to a AMD/INTEl
<Armbian-Discord> <k​.s.bedford.jr> lets get real about this arm has a ways to go
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> The NanoPC-T4 is a Mali T8xx, not a G31
<archetech> refed the rad zero g31
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Ah, that little guy
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> Nice little board, I can't wait to get things set back up
<archetech> its a good low end sbc
<c0rnelius> yeah its pretty good. But the hardware revs don't match.
<c0rnelius> like aren't consistent through out.
<archetech> rock5 vs phytium will be a good fight rock being 75% less $$ too
<c0rnelius> one works perfect and the other drops the ball on wifi and the led doesn't work on the soft end. Speaking with some one else it was suggested that the 1.4 revs had led support where the 1.5s dropped the ball.
<Armbian-Discord> <N​icoD> I like the RadxaZero. It is pretty crazy for such a small size. Great that the USB-C is USB3. Performs great compared to anything comparable(RPiZero2-BPiM2Zero)
<Armbian-Discord> <N​icoD> For watching video it ain't the right board. But for gaming it's good. Even for light desktop tasks. eMMC performs well enough.
<c0rnelius> The RZERO2 is pretty much gonna be a small N2 if I was reading it right.
<c0rnelius> I've been watching 1080p x264 vids on mine just fine. Mostly just testing on the 2GB. But I also have a 4GB laying around.
<c0rnelius> It shines on CE for sure.
<Armbian-Discord> <N​icoD> The RadxaZero2 is a small VIM3. The most powerful SBC I've got. That they'll put in such a small form factor. Pretty crazy 🙂
<c0rnelius> can't wait to fuck with it
<Armbian-Discord> <N​icoD> Then you must have a tiny weener :p
<Armbian-Discord> <N​icoD> Just joking 😉
<c0rnelius> Either that or ur use to taking really LARGE ones.
<c0rnelius> I don't know?
<buZz> [TheBug]: haaha yeah , T2 is another fun thing
<buZz> basically 'buy apple if you hate computers'
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<Armbian-Discord> <k​.s.bedford.jr> no you buy a apple when you tired of Windows Screwing you with out Vaselineand a sandpaper condom
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<Armbian-Discord> <k​.s.bedford.jr> we have mac/windows/linux machines
<lanefu> yall gross
<Armbian-Discord> <k​.s.bedford.jr> ?
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> The Phytium vs Rock 5 can only be a real fight if a Rock that can have 32 or 64 GB of upgrade RAM installed, otherwise it just isn't fair. Compute could be a contest, but "being a computer" is not winnable for a static SBC.
<stipa> what a bout the heat with that new rockchip?
<Armbian-Discord> <k​.s.bedford.jr> ?
<Armbian-Discord> <k​.s.bedford.jr> which one
<stipa> the one with 16GB of ram
<Armbian-Discord> <k​.s.bedford.jr> the rk3399 needs a hetsync
<stipa> in rock 5
<Armbian-Discord> <k​.s.bedford.jr> power management not installe d
<Armbian-Discord> <k​.s.bedford.jr> might need more devicetree work for power settings and cpu settigns
<Armbian-Discord> <k​.s.bedford.jr> dont have one dont know
<stipa> i hope it can run without a fan
<stipa> but i doubt
<Armbian-Discord> <k​.s.bedford.jr> I would say heatsync with pad and fan best
<stipa> intel and amd are just fine at fan cooling territory
<buZz> my intel 8core server is fanless
<buZz> 8 x Intel(R) Atom(TM) CPU C3758 @ 2.20GHz (1 Socket)
<stipa> buZz: how much C at full load?
<buZz> ~90 before it clocks down
<buZz> its around 60 at idle
<buZz> :)
<buZz> painfull, but fine
<buZz> i mean, fine for the chip
<stipa> yea
<buZz> oh, where idle is a load of 0.7
<buZz> :)
<buZz> its running 15-20 lxcs, no vms, no lxc-playing-nas either :P
<stipa> as long as components around don't stink it's fine
<buZz> hehe nah, its totally fine, heatsink isnt at 90-60 , the die is
<buZz> heatsink does get painful to touch near the cpu under load , so >60C
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<stipa> when someone owns you money use your heatsink
<buZz> ^_^
<buZz> 'passive heatsink aggression'
<stipa> with an ARM logo on it
<buZz> on there ARM
<buZz> :D
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<Armbian-Discord> <p​anmearbig> Hi, sorry if this is a known issue but. I bricked my Orange Pi Zero 2 today by doing apt update then apt upgrade. It looks like u-boot is complaining about booti not being a valid command.
<Armbian-Discord> <p​anmearbig> I reproduced the issue with a fresh flash then issuing the above commands and nothing else
<Armbian-Discord> <k​.s.bedford.jr> ok flash again and try apt udate && apt dist-upgrade
<Armbian-Discord> <k​.s.bedford.jr> you might need to do a apt autoclean before hand also
<Armbian-Discord> <p​anmearbig> I've already issued the apt update command, is it took late to do the apt autoclean?
<Armbian-Discord> <k​.s.bedford.jr> if its not booting yes
<Armbian-Discord> <k​.s.bedford.jr> but if your on a new run then no
<Armbian-Discord> <p​anmearbig> well it only bricks it during apt upgrade not update
<Armbian-Discord> <k​.s.bedford.jr> you can run it now
<Armbian-Discord> <k​.s.bedford.jr> apt autoclean && apt update && apt dist-upgrade
<stipa> there's maybe regression in upgrade
<Armbian-Discord> <k​.s.bedford.jr> should not be
<Armbian-Discord> <k​.s.bedford.jr> are you using edge or current
<Armbian-Discord> <k​.s.bedford.jr> debian or ubuntu
<Armbian-Discord> <p​anmearbig> I'm using Armbian_21.08.2_Orangepizero2_buster_legacy_4.9.255.img. Bullseye and Focal do not boot for me
<Armbian-Discord> <k​.s.bedford.jr> wow old img ok
<Armbian-Discord> <p​anmearbig> Yeah, I flashed the newer two 4 or 5 times before giving up and going back to buster
<Armbian-Discord> <k​.s.bedford.jr> https://imola.armbian.com/dl/orangepizero2/rc/
<Armbian-Discord> <k​.s.bedford.jr> you have tried the rc ?
<Armbian-Discord> <p​anmearbig> nope, I only tried the two on the ambian orange pi zero 2 main page
<Armbian-Discord> <k​.s.bedford.jr> try this one
<Armbian-Discord> <k​.s.bedford.jr> debian builds from what I see have had some issues
<Armbian-Discord> <p​anmearbig> It's running the command you recommended, so I'll try that image next
<Armbian-Discord> <k​.s.bedford.jr> and it looks like ubuntu is where they focus on builds
<Armbian-Discord> <k​.s.bedford.jr> might try this one also
<Armbian-Discord> <p​anmearbig> ok, it finished updating but I'm pretty sure it'll be borked. there is no zImage
<Armbian-Discord> <p​anmearbig> also I still see the booti command in boot.cmd
<Armbian-Discord> <k​.s.bedford.jr> well if it did not error out on updating pkgs reboot
<Armbian-Discord> <k​.s.bedford.jr> see if it forked it