havenwood changed the topic of #ruby to: Ruby 3.4.2, 3.3.7 https://www.ruby-lang.org | Log https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/ruby
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<havenwood> The Lounge is a pretty good browser-based bouncer that adam12 I think introduced me to that is a bit simpler than a VNC bouncer paired with a discrete client. https://thelounge.chat
<adam12> I like it.
<havenwood> If anyone catches cahoots_ online, please link them to the logs! :) https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/ruby
<Sampersand> ill try
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<Guest43> Test
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<havenwood> Sampersand: I like it. Fairly often handy to vis whitespace.
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<o0ox1eef> Hopefully one day someone makes thelounge.chat but for matrix -_- A lightweight, performance-aware client is badly needed in that space
<testone> there's the terminal one
<testone> as webapp cinny is good enough, IMHO
<testone> the othe 'lite' webapp is still too buggy
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<testone> [cinny has better error handling too]
<testone> [s/better/& than element webapp/]
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<o0ox1eef> Cinny looks promising!
<testone> I lost my HS, therefore I stopped using it either :-]
<Sampersand47> hs?
<Sampersand47> highschool
<testone> homeserver
<testone> matrix slang
<testone> o0ox1eef: the other lite [but buggy] webapp I was talking about is this --> https://app.quadrix.chat/
<testone> I remember tammy too, but I don't remember why I excluded it
<testone> maybe some huge bug in referring errors
<Sampersand47> no idea what tammy is :-/
<testone> sometimes I use schildichat webapp as well, but most of the time cinny.in
<testone> they are all matrix clients from web browser
<testone> for the haters: yes, they are shit from shit ;P
<Sampersand47> i aint a hater and idek what any of those words are lol
<testone> matrix client = client for matrix chat protocol
<testone> all odd words before (cinny, quadrix, tammy, schildichat) = matrix clients as webapp
<testone> webapp = a web site that act as an app (a chat app, an office app, ...)
<testone> if it's still obscure, ask and I'll reply :)
<Sampersand47> interesting
<Sampersand47> i dont really use matrix at all; i've treated it as social media, and eschewedit
<testone> IRC is a social medium as well
<testone> unless we're all chatting with bots ;PpP
<testone> I'm forced to use matrix for some support channels
<testone> what I hate more is discord :-@
<Sampersand47> lol
<Sampersand47> i own the ruby discord xD
<testone> till there will be an IRC channel for ruby, I'll never join there :-D
<testone> just noticed it's PI date, 3/14 in month/day style
<Sampersand47> you a ruby fanatic?
<Sampersand47> i love rubyists!
<Sampersand47> regardless of ther medium :-p
<testone> I like ruby the most between 'new' languages
<testone> I dislike some libs are abandoned and you have to use old versions of ruby to compile|use them :-\
<testone> but chruby save me from the hassle
<Sampersand47> i use rvm, but my god it ruins my env
<testone> I cannot use rvm: it has broken deps for the ruby versions I need
<testone> I first tried it 'coz it had .deb repo's, but had to switch to something other immediatly
<testone> I had to decide between chruby and uru, and started alphabetically
<havenwood> Sampersand47: chruby ftw
<testone> if uru was aru, maybe I would be using it ;P
<havenwood> Sampersand47: Oh yeah, I went on a zsh yack shave with pp, hah.
<testone> s/was/were/
<Sampersand47> ie my `pp` or the ruby `pp`
<havenwood> Hilariously, RVM ships with mrvm and chruby support for when folk need quick switching.
<havenwood> Sampersand47: `ppp` is my take on `pp` but not as fancy https://gist.github.com/havenwood/95673379097a443fdba6092c164f7714
<havenwood> I do like zsh scripting. Not nearly the footguns of bash.
<havenwood> I like the idea.
<havenwood> `pp` actually seems useful.
<havenwood> Sampersand47: For some reason I went on a common whitespace in filenames tangent. >.> Not the same as `pp` but made me think of odd filenames.
<havenwood> testone: I like the idea of Ruby as still a "new language" but it does have some aging libraries indeed.
<havenwood> I've been glad to seem some gemified and removed from stdlib as they're not maintained but some more are really due for being jettisoned.
<havenwood> It really helps avoid stdlib bloat to remove old stuff as new is added. Has been refreshing to see more each Ruby major release.
<havenwood> I'll throw a little party when ostruct is freed from stdlib. :) https://stdgems.org
<o0ox1eef> testone: if I find the time, I might set up cinny in jail. Also might consider lounge.chat at the same time. Generally weechat works well, but with matrix and its modern features, I'm not sure a console client is really optimal. I think the one feature that Matrix forgot about was simplicity :)
<testone> the real issue with matrix is money: they got too much money and started implementing every absurdity they thought
<o0ox1eef> Makes sense. I'm not sure VC funding existed back when IRC was created (probably a good thing)
<testone> moreover: tbh, I don't buy this 'you make your server and federate with others' wave
<testone> a server like matrix is very resource-hungry and a real work to maintain
<o0ox1eef> Yeah. For the average person it's not going to work. But at least it decentralizes control a bit. Mastodon is a decent example
<testone> I eschew all facebook and twitter FLOSS clones like Sampersand47 eschew matrix ;P
<testone> I dislike the very concept of them
<testone> still prefer MLs and good old newsgroups, if they were still alive
<o0ox1eef> That's fair. At the same time, outside of being "social media", they do solve a problem where a few big companies own most of the internet. Too much capitalism.
<testone> the problem cannot be solved that way: if ppl buy 'smart' phones with preinstalled those apps, nothing will change
<testone> here in .eu, privacy and antitrust authorities forced microsoft to stop forcing windows in new PCs and forced to remove 'default' programs
<testone> but when it came to phones, they did NOTHING
<o0ox1eef> Agreed. I don't think it is a battle we're winning. Sometimes I think about IRC as a nice snapshot of what could have been. It is much more community-oriented. We're not being sold anything. It's not a business.
<testone> they aren't phones, they are small PCs that make phone calls too
<testone> to worsen the thing: you cannot even control yourown device...
<o0ox1eef> Yep. Phones are mostly a disappointment
<testone> I wanted to buy a librem or <the other brand I don't remember>, but I ended up desisting
<testone> ppl would anyway expect you to use whatsapp and similar shit
<testone> there, will stay with 'dumb' phones
<o0ox1eef> Too expensive no?
<o0ox1eef> As a hobby I have been writing apps for https://kaiostech.com phones.
<testone> the other brand wasn't expensive, and multi-booted between android, linux, etc.
<testone> but why owning a linux phone if you have to use whatsapp in a browser?
<testone> [I forgot to cite faiphone too]
<o0ox1eef> Sometimes there's nothing you can do. Family, etc usually use whatsapp. We live in a world of consumerism.
<testone> s/faiphone/fairphone/
<testone> that is a trend and 'philosophy', but regulators are vacant!!!
<testone> without rules, bigs do whatever they want ad smalls must swallow everything
<o0ox1eef> At least from my perspective I think capitalism ate the internet. Things like IRC are just rare relics from a time when that wasn't the case yet.
<o0ox1eef> Agreed. There should be some kind of balance but usually greed wins.
<testone> the brand I forgot was shiftphone
<testone> [hoping the F isn't 'volatile' ;P]
<testone> and I forgot to cite pinephones/pinetablets as well, but they were usually out of stock and buggy
<testone> I didn't know this HK-based kaios
<o0ox1eef> Maybe I'll give it a try. Some are are too pricy for me (500~ euro) but the 200 euro models would be something I might get
<testone> I'll wait for a 'market' phone easily hackable to be in used things shop ;P
<testone> last android phone I really used was motorola defy+
<testone> these old versions of android were very more 'open' than today's
<testone> a lot of apps could use sensors in fancy ways to really help you and save time
<o0ox1eef> Sounds great no? https://pine64.org/devices/pinephone/
<testone> the real question is: how much buggy is it yet?
<testone> and another is: are there still 'issues' with makers that change chips and schemes?
<testone> pinenote is a thing! I'd like to work for while in a e-paper PC, to see if it really relax eyes
<o0ox1eef> Yeah. The phones I saw are flagged as beta / developer grade but it is still promising and mostly affordable - one high-end option I saw.
<testone> I wanted to by a RLCD of sunvision to see if it's better for eyes' health, but found no one already using it to ask for impressions
<testone> s/by/buy/
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<nakilon> not sure if you an call thelounge lightweight
<nakilon> *can
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<nakilon> and btw about glitching irb -- is it irb's 2.7+ fault of gnome that sometimes lines are missing when I pp?
<nakilon> *or gnome's
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<o0ox1eef> nakilon: Might be a readline issue. I think nowadays rb-readline is used. Back in the 2.7 days I'm not sure that was the case, and might be an old version
<nakilon> yeah, typical "upgrade ruby" to fix one issue and get two more; I don't even remember why I upgraded here from 2.6, probably smth didn't start at all; but there was no issues with plain old irb; maybe there is an option for fallback though
<o0ox1eef> Not judging or anything but 2.7 is already quite old :P
<o0ox1eef> Could try upgrade https://rubygems.org/gems/rb-readline maybe
<o0ox1eef> Shot in the dark
<o0ox1eef> It hasn't seen any updates since 2017 tho
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<nakilon> I was never hired to upgrade companies' rubies
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<nakilon> just two months ago or so (right?) I reported here that "bundle install" takes 30 seconds on all distros with ruby 2.7; so it's now two issues total if I don't miss anything else
<o0ox1eef> Fair enough :)
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<havenwood> nakilon: Not light weight per se. Simpler to configure than two separate tools that aren't already wired together by convention or just working. Self hosted bouncer with minimal configuration or fiddling.
<havenwood> If I was hired to work on Ruby 2.7 I'm afraid I'd consider it hired to upgrade Ruby. ;)
<havenwood> Reline was around by 2.7 too, so might be using that rather than rb-readline if readline wasn't available. https://stdgems.org/reline/
<nakilon> I upgraded it from 2.6
<havenwood> If you do want to use the readline extension, might consider installing readline-ext gem.
<havenwood> nakilon: Nice.
<nakilon> I wonder how to figure out if the driver registered in capybara was started, i.e. whether the `.browser` was invoked, so I won't start it needlessly "to screenshot the error" that has happened without a browser
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<ash_worksi> maybe not the right channel but serverspec-init asks, "Vagrant instance y/n:"... does that mean where serverspec will connect or the machine ruby is running on?
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