sorear changed the topic of #riscv to: RISC-V instruction set architecture | https://riscv.org | Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/riscv
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<bjdooks> palmer: I might try setting crosstool-ng on my new desktop and see if I can work out a combo of gcc/libc/etc that reprodces the problem
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<la_mettrie> i'm looking for a more practical advice than what ISA manuals do offer (like for more concrete programming purposes) about when to use FENCE instruction
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<palmer> la_mettrie: the LKMM implementation is probably your best bet, it's been pretty well tested/reviewed and there's a bunch of comments (and commit/email history) about the tricky bits
<palmer> there's also review for new patches, so if you find something interesting you can send along a fix and see what folks say
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<jrtc27> outside of the Linux kernel (where you should still be using the various barrier abstractions not raw fences) and hand-written assembly you shouldn't really be thinking about FENCE as an instruction, you should be using proper atomics and abstracting
<jrtc27> even in FreeBSD we almost always use an atomics API modelled on C11
<jrtc27> the only places that use fence directly in sys/riscv are the atomics implementation itself, busdma and pmap for sfence/fence.i things
<jrtc27> I assume la_mettrie is asking in the context of writing a FreeBSD driver based on past conversations, to which my response is you're probably asking the wrong question
<jrtc27> and should be stepping back to ask the question at a higher level, and in a freebsd context
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<palmer> ya, if the question was really "how do I write a FreeBSD" driver than looking at LKMM is a pretty terrible suggestion
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<muurkha> heh
<muurkha> it's a good suggestion for the rest of us, though!
<jrtc27> context matters, who knew :)
<muurkha> I mean, unless reading the Linux stuff will lead us into bad practices that reading the FreeBSD atomics API would lead us to avoid
<la_mettrie> jrtc27: just tried to understand some mhorne's wip-code. maybe i should have asked him directly
<muurkha> what's he working on?
<jrtc27> the linux docs are perfectly fine for when you want to understand the problems that exist in parallel worlds and how the hardware primitives help
<jrtc27> and are quite well written in that regard
<jrtc27> you just don't want to take on board the specific APIs for how to avoid them
<jrtc27> he has a beaglev branch on his fork
<muurkha> ah, thanks
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<dh`> apart from the specific issue that the linux world doesn't believe in condition variables and keeps trying to make up broken alternatives
<muurkha> haha
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