Turn_Left has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
vykt has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Left_Turn has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
<heat>
yes, gun-related terminology on kernel core stuff is a genius idea
<netbsduser`>
smh the kernel has gone woke
netbsduser` has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
<fedaykin>
what? when? what are you guys talking about?
Lucretia has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<kof673>
it is /s i am sure sarcasm
<zid>
I mean, that is just a word that means a thing?
<zid>
arabic through italian through french to english meaning storehouse
<kof673>
yes, i recommend grape shot to avoid confusion /s
<zid>
geek is far worse lol
<zid>
it's someone who bites the heads off animals at a circus freakshow
Velonie has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
<the_oz>
let language be changed for your health, wcgw?
<the_oz>
if only there were historical precedent
gog has quit [Quit: byee]
<fedaykin>
rust!
<fedaykin>
fight!
<fedaykin>
fight, fight, fight! MAGA! =)
<fedaykin>
maga rust fight =)
<fedaykin>
been too long without rust fight
gog has joined #osdev
cow321 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
hwpplayer1 has joined #osdev
<zid>
hot
<zid>
That's the sort of stuff I wanted to do with my parser, be able to go through headers and generate the equivalent of doxygen crap, but for feeding into other tools with
<zid>
like how you *need* to use gas to include .h files normally
<zid>
but if I could make it transform them to other things, like printf statements etc that'd be pretty cool
edr has quit [Quit: Leaving]
gog has quit [Quit: byee]
hwpplayer1 has quit [Quit: bye]
cow321 has joined #osdev
surabax has quit [Quit: Leaving]
bauen1 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
Maja_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
sdomi has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
Maja has joined #osdev
sdomi has joined #osdev
<heat>
zid, magazine was tactically chosen by bonwick because he's a gun nut
<heat>
it's not accidental at all
<heat>
one can understand why sidestepping that entire problem is desireable
<zid>
rip
<zid>
das politics
<heat>
and sheaves aren't entirely like magazines anyway
<zid>
I'm surprised the person who replaced it wasn't a furry and replaced it with struct REAM
<zid>
int knot
<heat>
no clue what that means
<heat>
i'll keep my innocence
<zid>
500 sheets of paper + word for sex
<heat>
ah, lovely
Arthuria has joined #osdev
heat has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
Velonie has joined #osdev
Velonie has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
frytaped has joined #osdev
knottyengineer has joined #osdev
<knottyengineer>
why is registering to is dev wiki on website so difficult? How come A reboot doesn't happen when System fault occurs?
Velonie has joined #osdev
bauen1 has joined #osdev
<Mutabah>
knottyengineer: Assuming nothing has changed since I registered - it's to avoid spam. By linking wiki and forum accounts (and requiring opt-in) the wiki protected from drive-by spam
<Mutabah>
As for your actual question... what sort of "system fault"?
Velonie has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
frytaped has quit [Quit: WeeChat 4.4.2]
knottyengineer has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
<kof673>
system fault strikes again :D
<zid>
found an int knot user
Arthuria has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
frytaped has joined #osdev
theruran has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
theruran has joined #osdev
frytaped has quit [Quit: WeeChat 4.4.2]
frytaped has joined #osdev
frytaped has quit [Client Quit]
frytaped has joined #osdev
<the_oz>
is that uhhh
osmten has joined #osdev
Velonie has joined #osdev
<ring0_starr>
the system fault oh man
<ring0_starr>
he hacked thru the back door
frytaped has quit [Quit: WeeChat 4.4.2]
<ring0_starr>
got more firewallz than the devil's bedroom
Velonie has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
<ring0_starr>
unless you have specifically configured qemu, it will reboot on triple fault like a real x86
LainExperiments8 has quit [Write error: Broken pipe]
frytaped has joined #osdev
LainExperiments has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
jjuran has quit [Quit: Killing Colloquy first, before it kills me…]
jjuran has joined #osdev
<Ermine>
so now we have farm-related terminology in mm?
vdamewood has quit [Quit: Life beckons]
LainExperiments5 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
Matt|home has quit [Quit: Matt|home]
LainExperiments has joined #osdev
<nikolar>
bushel this, gallon that
Left_Turn has joined #osdev
<gorgonical>
i object to the usage of any terminology related to the consumption of meat. So we have to change the slab allocator because it reminds me of bacon. Also we need to change ports because fishing vessels use those. And finally patches should be renamed because cows graze there before we eat them
frytaped has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
frytaped has joined #osdev
frytaped has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
frytaped has joined #osdev
netbsduser` has joined #osdev
Irvise has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
Irvise has joined #osdev
craigo has joined #osdev
craigo has quit [Client Quit]
craigo has joined #osdev
Velonie has joined #osdev
<Ermine>
i agree
<Ermine>
i'm hungry and i'm being reminded of meat
GeDaMo has joined #osdev
heat has joined #osdev
Turn_Left has joined #osdev
Left_Turn has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
LainExperiments2 has joined #osdev
LainExperiments4 has joined #osdev
LainExperiments has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
LainExperiments2 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
isaneran has joined #osdev
LainExperiments has joined #osdev
LainExperiments4 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
Left_Turn has joined #osdev
Turn_Left has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
LainExperiments3 has joined #osdev
LainExperiments has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
LainExperiments2 has joined #osdev
LainExperiments has joined #osdev
LainExperiments3 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
LainExperiments2 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
Turn_Left has joined #osdev
Left_Turn has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
osmten has quit [Quit: Client closed]
cow321 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
cow321 has joined #osdev
leon has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
leon has joined #osdev
LainExperiments has quit [Quit: Client closed]
LainExperiments has joined #osdev
<gorgonical>
I have had gulasch for the last four meals consecutively. Nobody send help
knops has joined #osdev
<nikolar>
we won't
<gorgonical>
you guys never let me down
LainExperiments has quit [Quit: Client closed]
<nikolar>
you're welcome
<kof673>
too busy with gulag myself, sorry
LainExperiments has joined #osdev
getz- has joined #osdev
getz has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
getz- is now known as getz
<sortie>
So I've been invited to be part of danish eurovision this weekend
<zid>
on stage, or as like, a grip?
<sortie>
Oh on stage
<Lucretia>
runner
<nikolar>
why danish though
* sortie
is in Denmark
<pog>
hvad sager du?
<nikolar>
ah
<nikolar>
my condolences
<sortie>
pog, close
<pog>
i speak less danish than icelandic
* zid
is in the united kingdom of great britain and northern ireland
<sortie>
The osdev life is full of glamour and fame and being backstage with popstars
<sortie>
It's why we do it
<pog>
oh righ tthey're doing sönvgakeppin which is the eurovision competition here
<zid>
songgepoppin
<pog>
söngvakeppnin*
leon has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
* Ermine
gives pog a piece of cheese
* pog
fascinate
knops has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
knops has joined #osdev
leon has joined #osdev
knops has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
knops has joined #osdev
LainExperiments has quit [Quit: Client closed]
LainExperiments has joined #osdev
LainExperiments9 has joined #osdev
LainExperiments has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
LainExperiments9 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
<gorgonical>
sortie are you native danish
[Kalisto] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)]
[Kalisto] has joined #osdev
<gorgonical>
the follow-up being if not how hard was it to learn the accent correctly, e.g. stod and the soft d
LainExperiments has joined #osdev
<sortie>
gorgonical, yep born & raised
anonpreet has joined #osdev
<gorgonical>
ah. I've always wondered how many learners manage to get it right. In principle it's not that much more complex than sounds in many other languages, it's just unusual
anonpreet has quit [Client Quit]
LainExperiments has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
trillion_exabyte has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
trillion_exabyte has joined #osdev
edr has joined #osdev
joe9 has quit [Quit: leaving]
frytaped has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
xenos1984 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
xenos1984 has joined #osdev
knops has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
surabax has joined #osdev
dude12312414 has joined #osdev
gog has joined #osdev
dude12312414 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
cow321 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
joe9 has joined #osdev
Brnocrist has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
Brnocrist has joined #osdev
joe9 has quit [Quit: leaving]
cow321 has joined #osdev
\Test_User has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
\Test_User has joined #osdev
Matt|home has joined #osdev
joe9 has joined #osdev
elderK has quit [Quit: WeeChat 4.5.1]
hwpplayer1 has joined #osdev
chiselfuse has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
hwpplayer1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
chiselfuse has joined #osdev
hwpplayer1 has joined #osdev
<nikolar>
KERNAL
<heat>
KERN
<heat>
AL
<nikolar>
mov al, kern
<zid>
mov [kern], al
<zid>
mov ds:kern, al
<zid>
FIGHT
<nikolar>
mov kern, %al
<nikolar>
I win
<zid>
your al has herpes
<GeDaMo>
I can call you KERN and you can call me AL :P
<heat>
mov kern is just nasty sorry
<heat>
mov (kern)
<GeDaMo>
KERN and BARBIE :|
frkzoid has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
frkazoid333 has joined #osdev
dza has quit [Excess Flood]
dza has joined #osdev
GeDaMo has quit [Quit: 0wt 0f v0w3ls.]
hwpplayer1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
randm has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
randm has joined #osdev
<kof673>
hmm, so that https://codeberg.org/tkchia/build-ia16 builds just fine. i am thinking i will still keep headerless + libc-less targets, they will actually be useful for 1) actual kernel code, some day..... 2) writing a libc
<kof673>
i'm not a good example, just lots of things i write.........get your size_t and malloc() from somewhere, i don't care where. is it bare metal? hosted? you decide lol
<ring0_starr>
movb %%al, (kern)
<kof673>
c doesn't particularly mandate kernel/userland split per se...."freestanding" "hosted"
<m5>
heat: help me understand the C runtime, reading gcc/clang sources is hard T_T
<kof673>
or, c89 has no concept of a "process" per se lol
<ring0_starr>
kof673: this is exactly what i'm talking about. C is a language, for communicating things to the computer to do
<ring0_starr>
rust wants to be the language and the environment
<m5>
ew
<kof673>
i'm just slowly writing userland stuff and someday bare metal...
<kof673>
not a good example.....but postpone as much as possible....
<ring0_starr>
i mean sure, maybe rust abstracts a few parts away so that it could work easily with the paradigms we currently have
<ring0_starr>
but it's not created with agnosticism in mind
hwpplayer1 has joined #osdev
<m5>
rust hides the black magic
<ring0_starr>
one of the main reasons why C and unix are so successful is because of portability and simplicity
<m5>
good luck with rust on embedded
<m5>
lol
<ring0_starr>
so then take those things away because you're making it better and im gonna get my popcorn and enjoy the shitshow
<ring0_starr>
from what i've been told it's "good". idk man
<zid>
you can't even do rust on x86 so that's fine
<zid>
it has no -mgeneral-regsiters-only
<m5>
LMAO
<ring0_starr>
i gave up on rust when i couldn't even get a stupid irc bot to work. did not manage to find a compile-able version of tokio
<heat>
ah yes another insightful rust debate
<m5>
C runtime is part of the compiler right?
<zid>
gcc didn't have naked/interrupt on x86 for forever :(
* Ermine
ticks off rust on today's #osdev bingo card
<m5>
lol
<ring0_starr>
define C runtime
<ring0_starr>
libc?
<m5>
yes
<m5>
plus
<ring0_starr>
library functions defined in the ISO C standard
<m5>
whenever i ask about the C runtime, i get asked that same question "define the C runtime" lol
<m5>
i'm sorry i'm dumb af
<heat>
ehh
<heat>
i have a different definition of "C runtime"
<m5>
which is?
<ring0_starr>
for context are you asking because you want to debate about something, or because you don't know and you want to learn?
<heat>
bare minimum you need to land in main() and exercise various freestanding C functionality
<m5>
ring0_starr: the later is my motivation T_T
<gog>
crt0
<heat>
so libgcc and crt1.o
<ring0_starr>
i agree with heat to be completely honest, that's what springs to mind when i hear that phrase
<ring0_starr>
but it's not how most use it
<m5>
gog: how's is put together is the question, crt0 is the "thing"
<ring0_starr>
like see MSVCRT.DLL
<m5>
heat: yes
<ring0_starr>
there it's synonymous with libc
<m5>
ring0_starr: not on windows
<gog>
m5: crt0, crt1 and libgcc (_s) are statically linked to the executable
<ring0_starr>
what's funny is that rust's runtime depends on C from what i'm told
<m5>
gog: srry you're right my man.
<ring0_starr>
it's not a self-hosting language lol
<heat>
yes it does
<heat>
most other languages do because C is the unofficial ABI
<ring0_starr>
self-hosting becomes more difficult the more ambitious one is
<heat>
it's just one of those things
<m5>
libgcc is the compiler-runtime OF gcc?
<ring0_starr>
it shouldn't be
<heat>
well it is what it is
<gog>
it has symbols that gcc _might_ emit during compilation
<m5>
i see
<ring0_starr>
yeah like default onexits and such
<m5>
tysm guys <3
<heat>
yes, crt1 (or a _start supplied) lands you in main, libgcc+libatomic implement barebones language stuff like atomics and 64-bit ops if need be
<gog>
there's also stuff like .init, .fini
<heat>
none of these require an include to work
<ring0_starr>
so i guess we could define C runtime as the basic functions needed to run a C program that are compiled into said program
<ring0_starr>
and don't exist as something dynamically linked in later
<Ermine>
actually _start doesn't need to be called so, if one is willing to provide a different ld script
<m5>
why change the entry point?
<Ermine>
because i can
<m5>
fair
<gog>
there's lots of fun and silly stuff you can do
<gog>
the only limit is your imagination and ability to step debug assembly
<ring0_starr>
but the C runtime in that sense doesn't exist to the language
<ring0_starr>
to the language, _start() is not real.
<gog>
no it's more of a convention
<ring0_starr>
the C runtime in that sense is only a thing for the ABI/compiler/program-OS-interface level
<m5>
ring0_starr: the spec uses very hand-wavy formal descriptions of the abstract machine i guess
<gog>
the runtime is whatever is necessary to establish an environment that a standard C program can run inside
<Ermine>
kek
<gog>
to put it succinctly
<gog>
and constrain it to the minimum set without specifying
<nikolar>
zid: absolutely correct
<ring0_starr>
the glue between execve and "int main()"
* gog
slaps ring0_starr with CreateProcessA()
<Ermine>
A?
<gog>
A because it's not U
<Ermine>
y not W?
<gog>
or W
<ring0_starr>
lol
<gog>
because in my house 127 characters is enough
<m5>
gog: lol
<ring0_starr>
i had to teach this "senior principle" dev what TCHAR is and why it exists
<ring0_starr>
ffs
<m5>
a discord jpeg from zid was not expected, i thought he was an IRC purist
<gog>
zid messages me on discord alll the time
<zid>
gog: My least favourite thing about C is that you can only use 26-way nested loops because you run out of variable names
<nikolar>
gog do you not have Unicode in your house
<heat>
gog uhhhhhhh message me on discord
<Ermine>
win32 docs discourage using those suffixed functions iirc
<ring0_starr>
#define UNICODE
<ring0_starr>
CreateProcess(...)
<gog>
heat: i messaged you on discord
<zid>
The don't even publish new win32 docs, it's all .NET only these days
<heat>
i replied to you on discord
<zid>
native apps are DEAD
<Ermine>
message me too!
<Ermine>
soo
<Ermine>
win11 doesn't have anything new in win32 world?
<gog>
heat i sent you a picture of my cat on discord
<nikolar>
zid who cares about windows, it's the year of the Linux desktop
<ring0_starr>
#define WIN32_LEAN_AND_MEAN
<m5>
gog: do you guys have special private discord servers of absolute top tier hacking tutorials? can i get in? LMAO
<ring0_starr>
we goin turbo
<gog>
nikolar: "mom can we get unicode" "we have unicode at home" unicode at home: UCS-2
<nikolar>
Ewe no
<m5>
discord is just cat pictures
<ring0_starr>
UCS-2 is variable length though
<m5>
nowadays
<heat>
correct.
<gog>
m5: no we just dm
<m5>
ah :D
<heat>
yo gog just slid on my dms frfr
<nikolar>
ring0_starr: ucs-2 is wrong
<nikolar>
We only do utf-8 in this house
<ring0_starr>
yeah well that was the 1990s
<heat>
we latin1 in this bitch
<ring0_starr>
I don't like that at all though
<m5>
lol
<ring0_starr>
65535 code points and we still need it to be maybe variable length just to throw off any guarantees or assumptions you'd otherwise be able to make
<nikolar>
Or potentially utf-32 if you need more advanced text processing internally
<gog>
is it? i thought it was fixed-width
<gog>
TIL
<ring0_starr>
unicode, in my mind, will always be a user mode kind of thing
<nikolar>
gog, nope
<ring0_starr>
there is a difference between utf16 and ucs2
<ring0_starr>
i forget what it is
<heat>
>will always be a user mode kind of thing
<gog>
the BMP?
<ring0_starr>
yeah and that's the reason why I don't think unicode should be part of a language itself
<heat>
this is because to the kernel unicode is mostly not relevant
<ring0_starr>
right
<ring0_starr>
but rust does add unicode shit into itself so now there's complexity forced upon things that don't need it and shouldn't have it
<Ermine>
utf8 could solve world hunger
<heat>
the charset kind of matters (what's the terminator? what's /? what are you expecting the logs to be) but mostly doesn't
<Ermine>
and yet microsoft decided to go with utf16
<Ermine>
MICROSHILL WINCRAP
<ring0_starr>
actually i'm wrong, ucs-2 is fixed
<heat>
utf16 was a not so terrible choice back then
<ring0_starr>
everybody thought W variants were utf-16 back then
<gog>
i lack so much confidence in my knowledge
<Ermine>
but using wide strings everywhere is kinda annoying
<heat>
IIRC microcrapper winblows picked utf-16 when 16 bits was enough for full unicode coverage
<heat>
so basically utf32
<ring0_starr>
this doesn't seem horrible though...?
<ring0_starr>
maybe it's just me but 65535 code points seems very sufficient
<ring0_starr>
127 isn't enough
<heat>
it's just you
<gog>
sure add thousands of woke characters
<Ermine>
reasonable, but they failed to predict the future on those
<ring0_starr>
> 0xffff seems to just get abused for emoticons that nobody likes
<heat>
ugh gog don't you hate it when the DIRTY FOREIGNERS add their own WOKE CODEPOINTS
<ring0_starr>
devolved into heiroglyphics and pictograms
<gog>
i was just mememing heat yikes
<kof673>
*evolved but yes, they probably do not compare
<heat>
gog im also horsing around
<zid>
I sneded gog a picture
<zid>
she did not respond
<gog>
oh
<ring0_starr>
hm
<nikolar>
heat winblows picked ucs-16 when there was no other option
<gog>
heh
<nikolar>
Utf-8 came out like a year or 2 layer
<nikolar>
*later
<ring0_starr>
so you know what, I think C did strings right, rust is dumb
<heat>
you're wrong
<ring0_starr>
or rather nu-age languages in general simply aren't built with the same amount of foresight and experience
<nikolar>
No, you're wrong
<heat>
no, you're wrong
<gog>
everybody is wrong
<nikolar>
gog: is right
<nikolar>
Wait no
<gog>
we must grow to accept wrongness and just go with it
<Ermine>
re utf8: there was some store when russian authorities presented the fact that cyrillic characters are 2 bytes and latin characters are 1 byte as discrimination
<nikolar>
Lol
<nikolar>
Wait until cjk hear about it then
<heat>
unicode is the greatest thing of all time
<nikolar>
Absolutely
<nikolar>
Until it isn't
<gog>
it does highlight the hegemony of the basic latin alphabet
<heat>
i appreciate boundaryless communication between various cultures
<heat>
øøøøøøøøøo
hwpplayer1 has quit [Quit: sleep]
<m5>
lol
<gog>
þe hegemony *
<ring0_starr>
in the future you think we're gonna have robots typing on keyboards like in ghost in the shell
<zid>
Fine, I'll take my cool pictures and give them to nikolar instead
<nikolar>
heat: уес и агрее
<ring0_starr>
5000 buttons on 10 different pannels
<heat>
i agree, yec n arpee indeed
<zid>
yec n arpee
<ring0_starr>
each finger sprouts 10 mini-fingers
<gog>
why would tachikoma need a keyboard
<gog>
why does it need a desk?!
<zid>
I'm reporting you to ʜʁ
<ring0_starr>
cause it looks cool
<ring0_starr>
but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense on closer examination
<nikolar>
zid, oh no, not the ња
<ring0_starr>
just trying to think, now that we have all these characters, we need a way to type em, right??
<zid>
sir ur letters are conjoined
<zid>
they need urgent surgery
<ring0_starr>
there was some kind of 8 bit encoding for text on japanese computers
<gog>
æ
<kof673>
pc98 stuff ?
<gog>
JIS
<ring0_starr>
FAT marks filenames with 0xe5 to specify it's a special string in this encoding
<nikolar>
ring0_starr: maybe? They have like 120 kana
<nikolar>
So I guess you can fit that and ASCII into 8 bits
<ring0_starr>
yeah maybe iudnno
<zid>
you turn into super ultimate galaxy brain nene if you do that though
isaneran has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
<ring0_starr>
the 0xe5 wasn't part of the long filename feature
<nikolar>
If you do what zid
<heat>
Bøß
<ring0_starr>
so it'd have to fit into 8 bits
<zid>
use kana
<nikolar>
こんにちは
<Ermine>
kanji kanji kanji kanji
<Ermine>
there lots of those
<Ermine>
there are*
<nikolar>
Yeah a lot a lot
<nikolar>
Between the cjk
<zid>
That's a terrible set of colours to use for printing
<nikolar>
Indeed zid
<zid>
cyan jaune black
<zid>
should add the mongol alphabet in
<nikolar>
Isn't that just Cyrillic :P
<zid>
calling russians mongs is going a bit far nik
<nikolar>
Not what I was saying but sure
<Ermine>
there are people who would agree
<heat>
russians yearn for the steppe
craigo has quit [Quit: Leaving]
gimli has joined #osdev
netbsduser` has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
pounce has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
pounce has joined #osdev
Lucretia has quit [Remote host closed the connection]