klange changed the topic of #osdev to: Operating System Development || Don't ask to ask---just ask! || For 3+ LoC, use a pastebin (for example https://gist.github.com/) || Stats + Old logs: http://osdev-logs.qzx.com New Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev || Visit https://wiki.osdev.org and https://forum.osdev.org || Books: https://wiki.osdev.org/Books
gmodena has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
j`ey has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
j`ey has joined #osdev
HeTo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
HeTo has joined #osdev
isabella has joined #osdev
Lucretia has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
d1rg has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
Halofreak1990 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
goliath has quit [Quit: SIGSEGV]
Arthuria has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
thinkpol has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
thinkpol has joined #osdev
d1rg has joined #osdev
gog has quit [Quit: byee]
surabax has quit [Quit: Leaving]
d1rg has quit [Quit: Quit]
d1rg has joined #osdev
d1rg has quit [Client Quit]
d1rg has joined #osdev
d1rg has quit [Client Quit]
d1rg has joined #osdev
d1rg has quit [Client Quit]
d1rg has joined #osdev
d1rg has quit [Client Quit]
d1rg has joined #osdev
d1rg has quit [Quit: Quit]
d1rg has joined #osdev
<d1rg> guys i had questions, why do almost all popular kernels are written in C and not C++
<d1rg> question*
<heat> tradition, age and C suits itself a little better to kernel development than C++
<d1rg> thanks :-)
<zid`> Main answer is "Which bits of C++?"
<zid`> getting 4000 developers to agree on that question is an unsolvable problem
<isabella> raii
Halofreak1990 has joined #osdev
<zid`> and imo, if you take away all the features that are problematic re complexity, compile speeds, redundant code, safety (vtables!), etc
<zid`> you're not left with a lot
<kof673> > initially standardized in 1998 that doesn't mean people weren't using it before...but what are these post-1998 oses? beos: 1995
d1rg has quit [Quit: Quit]
chiselfuse has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
chiselfuse has joined #osdev
vdamewood has quit [Quit: Life beckons]
vdamewood has joined #osdev
ryoskzypu has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
ryoskzypu has joined #osdev
fkrauthan has quit [Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in]
fkrauthan has joined #osdev
Halofreak1990 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
heat has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
td123 has quit [Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat]
td123 has joined #osdev
Arthuria has joined #osdev
Arthuria has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
agent314 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
agent314 has joined #osdev
Lucretia has joined #osdev
GeDaMo has joined #osdev
mrpops2ko has quit [Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.]
TkTech has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
craigo has quit [Quit: Leaving]
nortti has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
chiselfuse has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
chiselfuse has joined #osdev
hwpplayer1 has joined #osdev
alifib has joined #osdev
hwpplayer1 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
hwpplayer1 has joined #osdev
thinkpol has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
thinkpol has joined #osdev
mrpops2ko has joined #osdev
hwpplayer1 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
hwpplayer1 has joined #osdev
hwpplayer1 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
hwpplayer1 has joined #osdev
hwpplayer1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
xenos1984 has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
alifib has quit [Quit: .]
xenos1984 has joined #osdev
alifib has joined #osdev
hwpplayer1 has joined #osdev
xenos1984 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
alifib has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Fukurou 45.42.1/20250207190456]]
<cloudowind> gcc is huge takes ages to build
<bslsk05> ​Sawyer-Powell/chatgcc - A bash script to use ChatGPT as your C compiler (2 forks/21 stargazers)
<zid`> hah
<cloudowind> relatively ofc , huge for this little misarable Intel Core M 5Y71 , might be a little bite for modern cpus , like ultra5 ,
<kof673> old gcc and c only is not too bad, talking 2/3/4 .....maybe 6 or so :D
<kof673> you do need a bit of ram for the latter
xenos1984 has joined #osdev
<cloudowind> this is 4.4 , lates here as far as i can see
<cloudowind> GeDaMo: i did write a python script (with the help of chatgpt) withoth using paid apis , i managed to brought chatpgt to my linux terminal and irc by using pythons selenium libs , then improved the script and used is like my bot still in a challen called #rebel anyway
<cloudowind> one day i went to #chatgpt to make a show there , first asked them if theyve got a chatgpt there in their channel they didnt have one
goliath has joined #osdev
<cloudowind> and i showed them mine , and gave them the link of the script that ive uploaded to github , and said bye,.,anwyay a week later openai somehow blocked my method
<cloudowind> some how they were managed to detect if the browser has been opened by using selenium or in debug remote control mode whatever you call
<cloudowind> script started to fail... then after spending few hours i managed to turn that script to chrome instead , managed to bypass that check with chrome in debug mode with selenium and beauty libs , still using it
<cloudowind> brought it here one day but i think poor time got banned :)
<cloudowind> *timer..
hwpplayer1 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<cloudowind> i think ive spoken too much didnt i :) you guys have a gooddays its night time here
<cloudowind> you guys could bring a c compiler here too if you wanted too , i could do it..
* cloudowind gone
Halofreak1990 has joined #osdev
hwpplayer1 has joined #osdev
gog has joined #osdev
sham1 has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.9.1 - https://znc.in]
sham1 has joined #osdev
agent314 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
agent314 has joined #osdev
agent314 has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
Left_Turn has joined #osdev
agent314 has joined #osdev
Turn_Left has joined #osdev
hanemile has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
Left_Turn has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
hanemile has joined #osdev
pie_ has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
pie_ has joined #osdev
m5zs7k has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
alifib has joined #osdev
<FreeFull> I remember building gcc when I was doing LFS, it really did take ages
FreeFull has quit []
FreeFull has joined #osdev
m5zs7k has joined #osdev
<alifib> 13 hours building gcc14 on this ibook g4 (ppc)
<alifib> *33, my bad
<zid`> It went from slow because cpus sucked, to fast cus cpus were good, to slow again because C++ port :p
<kof673> ^^^^ report timings for 3.x or 4.x i think too :D
<alifib> firefox gets built in 13 hours, so there's that
hwpplayer1 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
heat has joined #osdev
alifib has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
alifib has joined #osdev
agent314 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
Halofreak1990 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
Halofreak1990 has joined #osdev
agent314 has joined #osdev
Halofreak1990 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
alifib has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
nortti has joined #osdev
Starfoxxes has joined #osdev
Halofreak1990 has joined #osdev
Halofreak1990 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
Shaddox404 has joined #osdev
f_ is now known as funderscore
funderscore is now known as f_
Halofreak1990 has joined #osdev
Halofreak1990 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
Shaddox404 has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
heat_ has joined #osdev
heat has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
hwpplayer1 has joined #osdev
surabax has joined #osdev
hwpplayer1 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
hwpplayer1 has joined #osdev
craigo has joined #osdev
netbsduser` has joined #osdev
Halofreak1990 has joined #osdev
agent314 has quit [Quit: WeeChat 4.3.1]
netbsduser` has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
xenos1984 has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
xenos1984 has joined #osdev
xenos1984 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
xenos1984 has joined #osdev
m3a has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
Arthuria has joined #osdev
Halofreak1990 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
flom84 has joined #osdev
flom84 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
woky_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
woky_ has joined #osdev
<zid`> heat_: how's rabbitland?
m3a has joined #osdev
Halofreak1990 has joined #osdev
atrapado has joined #osdev
<heat_> how's what now
<Lucretia> ickle bunnies?
<zid`> ickles bunnies are iberian
<zid`> hispania = rabbitland
<heat_> fuck it here's an unprompted fun fact: did yall know linux setuid syscalls only affect the current thread? the libc uses signals to basically IPI that syscall across all threads
<zid`> weird.. but I guess it makes sense?
<zid`> else you couldn't have an elevated 'secure' thread
<zid`> and drop perms on the rest
<heat_> i mean, you can't really do that anyway with pthreads
<heat_> and clone() CLONE_THREAD is basically unusable because of TLS
<heat_> (unusable to !libc consumers)
<zid`> who are you talking to
<heat_> you
<zid`> wtf
<Ermine> i don't think such thing as "secure thread" exists
<Ermine> there's too little isolation between threads for such scheme to make sense
<zid`> "hardening doesn't help"
<Ermine> to harden you'd need a separate process
<heat_> yeah usually you just see a secure process and use IPC between them
<zid`> that'd be secure, not "secure" :P
cloudowind has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<heat_> i don't think is part of some grand design by the linux people, rather it's just convenient for them (they don't have to lock the creds data nor move it from the task_struct) and the libc people have to cover their asses (as usual)
<zid`> shrug, works as a hardening too though, so it's better this way around
<zid`> the work needs doing either way, but if kernel does it all automatically, you can't do that hardening ever
<zid`> plus less work for them
<heat_> yeah
<heat_> though i do enjoy the signal-based IPI scheme and i do wonder, if disabling signals wasn't so expensive, if you could easily use it for RCU
<heat_> userspace RCU that is
cloudowind has joined #osdev
<heat_> like maybe you could devise a userspace shared memory protocol between userspace and the kernel for signals, and that would be super great
<cloudowind> kof673: sorry my bad , that was make 4.2 , gcc ive been compiling is 14.2 and its been going on since last night , 8 hours. single core didnt wanna get cpu too hot as this machine doesnt have a cpu cooler fan , wow gcc is huge , goodays osdev i am going work
hwpplayer1 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
atrapado has quit [Quit: leaving]
Starfoxxes has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<geist> huh random thing i just bumped into https://formats.kaitai.io/ext2/
<bslsk05> ​formats.kaitai.io: ext2 filesystem format spec for Kaitai Struct
<geist> but more interestingly, the kaitai thing lets you define structs with json and whatnot and it generates code for you (though sadly not the languages i generally want)
<geist> but it also has a ton of formats in their library https://formats.kaitai.io/zip/
<bslsk05> ​formats.kaitai.io: ZIP archive file format spec for Kaitai Struct
<geist> if nothing else can look at the json as documentation
GeDaMo has quit [Quit: 0wt 0f v0w3ls.]
<nikolar> geist: if only it generated c
<heat_> yeah i've heard of it
Halofreak1990 has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
<heat_> did yall know POSIX explicitly requires CLOCK_REALTIME absolute timeouts to be affected by clock_settime
<heat_> terrible.
<heat_> it basically means my time subsystem needs to be like 5x more complex than it already is, yay
Halofreak1990 has joined #osdev
<Ermine> how about ignoring this requirement?
<heat_> tis what i've been doing
<heat_> but it's probably not a good idea
Gooberpatrol66 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
goliath has quit [Quit: SIGSEGV]
TkTech has joined #osdev
Turn_Left has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<bslsk05> ​formats.kaitai.io: Executable and Linkable Format format spec for Kaitai Struct