<kazinsal>
put in my two weeks notice yesterday, getting let go early and paid out for the notice period as of this evening
<kazinsal>
new job starts on february 1, but between unused vacation time being paid out and the two weeks being paid as normal I'm still getting paid all the way through until then
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<heat>
sweet
<heat>
you know what time it is? time to finally write that UNIX
<kazinsal>
aw yeah
<vdamewood>
I'd rather write a multics.
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<vdamewood>
Actually, stupid jokes aside.... This makes me wonder if the source for Multics available?
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<geist>
so it's not that cold down here, but it's like -10C and my heat pump cannot keep up
<geist>
so most of the house is like.... i dunno, 14?
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<kazinsal>
kinda glad I live in a relatively small apartment. I've got the baseboard heater on in the bedroom (which helps keep the bathroom warm as well via the walk-through closet) and the living room is kept at an alright temperature just from how many computers are on in here
<kazinsal>
so it's still averaging around maybe 70F inside
<geist>
yah this heat pump just stops at freezing, and the AUX heat is insufficient
<geist>
so the house just slowly cools off as it runs full tilt
<Mutabah>
You could export some of that cool over here
<Mutabah>
40C and rising
<geist>
!! oh yeah southern hemisphere
<kazinsal>
yeah, friend of mine in brisbane has been saying it's been raining a bunch and combined with the heat it's like walking through soup outside some days
<geist>
a friend of mine from sydney just flew here a couple days ago and got the shittiest seattle weather in years
<kazinsal>
yeah, I can't remember the last time we had "the wind chill physically hurts" weather here
<kof123>
> raining a bunch and combined with the heat <motions/points at bslsk05 like weather person> With fang that struck or coil that crushed or breath / That dealt a putrid blast of poisoned death
<kof123>
the weather channel would be a lot more exciting with the old symbols
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<geist>
°◡°
<mjg>
what' this UwU shit
* kazinsal
UwUs your OwO
<mjg>
i started using weather app on my phone for more than temp readings
<mjg>
i'm getting weather news for the US (i'm in EU)
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<mjg>
the only city i have configured is the one i reside in
<mjg>
so wtf
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<zid>
well it's probably better than being in a sydney summer
<zid>
less chance of spontaneously bursting into flames
<geist>
it's a smily face from another app, but didn't render anywhere else
<geist>
so i decoded it from utf8
<geist>
U+B0 U+E2BE U+25E1 U+B0
<zid>
I get degree, dot multiply, semi-circle underneath, degree
<geist>
the key is the E2BE which is apparently part of the 'private use' part of unicode
<geist>
it givfes a good breakdown of how each byte translates
<zid>
It took me surprisingly long to find out how to decode utf-8, given how shitty google is, when I had to look it up
<zid>
It's a very cool and simple encoding at least
<mjg>
i only make faces with ::
<geist>
yeah was just staring at the decode of that smile face and remembering how it works
<geist>
and the other neat thig is it self aligns, if you miss a byte you can keep skipping continuation bytes until it resyncs
<Mutabah>
UTF-8 is a wonderfully careful design
<Mondenkind>
utf8 has a major bug
<Mondenkind>
it admits redundant representations (for example, you can encode 'a' with one byte or two bytes). The designers thought it would be a good idea to canonicalise, so they said anything but the smallest possible representation is just illegal
<Mondenkind>
which is fine, except that it's really easy to miss--a decoder that doesn't check for and reject overlong encodings appears to work
<Mondenkind>
the proper fix would have been to say that everything encoded with two bytes gets 128 implicitly added to it, etc.
<Mutabah>
Is that really an issue?
<Mondenkind>
as a bonus, you get slightly denser
<Mutabah>
the acwbeing extra permissive
<Mutabah>
*being extra permissive
<geist>
i guess it's an issue if you do some sort of strcmp and you're basically looking at bytewise
<Mondenkind>
it could be, if you have different portions of the stack disagreeing over whether something is valid or not
<geist>
which is possibly why they said anything but the smallest encoding is illegal
<zid>
I expect the utf8 library I am using to handle that, because I should never ever be looking at the encoding for text
<Mondenkind>
but in general kinda not really because _unicode_ doesn't canonicalise :p
<zid>
unless I am that library
<geist>
so that two streams of unicode can only translate to precisely one stream of utf8 and thus bytewise comparisons still work
<geist>
er i mean any given stream of unicode can only translate to precisely one utf8
<geist>
i misstyped it
<Mondenkind>
geist: yeah, but point is that á can be a single unicode codepoint, or two unicode codepoints, so bytewise comparisons would probably not have done what you wanted _anyway_
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* geist
nods
<geist>
though i guess from utf8s point of view that's not their problem
<zid>
I similarly think it isn't my problem that pngs can be optimized
<zid>
and two images might not compare bytewise equal
<Mondenkind>
geist: I mean, not really? The point of design decisions in an encoding is that they should work well with how the encoding is actually used. They thought having canonical encodings would be useful, so they specced it. But if they wanted that, there's a much better way they could have specced it. It turned out not to be that useful but i bet it's still responsible for at least one minor
<Mondenkind>
vulnerability in something
<geist>
yah
<geist>
this is an area that i do not know enough about to have much authority
<geist>
being 'murican and 7 bits being good enough for me, etc
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<zid>
if 6 bits was good enough for DEC RADIX 50
<zid>
it's good enough for me
<zid>
rip, the website running the monster combining tool for dragon quest just went down, now how can I play it
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<Mondenkind>
I LOVE SIXBIT. NO I HAVE NO TROUBLE WRITING C I JUST USE TRIGRAPHS WHY DO YOU ASK ?
<sham1>
I can tell
<zid>
I LOVE STRINGS$
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<Mondenkind>
I ESPECIALLY LOVE TERMINATING THEM WITH NULST$L�L$@H�t$XD�D$8D�T$0H�L$(�
<geist>
hey if you're 9 or 12 or 18 or 36 bit machine, 6bit is pretty noice
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<zid>
yea that was the idea I think
<geist>
well, okay, not 9, but 12+
<zid>
7 doesn't go into much
<zid>
8 goes into a few things
<geist>
yah PDP8 (12 bit) used 6 bit chars, nicely fit 2 per word
<zid>
8 into 36 is pretty nice though, you get one 'bonus' bit for each byte in the world you can use for parity or 'extended' or whatever
<geist>
plus pdp1, 6 and 10 which were 18 and 36 bit and whatnot
<Mondenkind>
7 is a terrible number
<zid>
indeed
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<epony>
technically, word width changed with the years
<epony>
and it settled on 8 as a dual 4bit conjoined pair
<epony>
called a.. nibble or quarted, and the group octet
<epony>
or, byte (word of 8bit)
<epony>
there were different units for information, other than bit, like ban and trit
<epony>
ternary computing was less efficient and less reliable
<epony>
due to mestability problens and delay lines in electronics
<epony>
the multiples of 6bit words disappeared completely, these were incoherent and inefficient designs
<epony>
the binary system says the next one to be octal and hexadecimal, not the "character" bit width
<epony>
so a symbol may be 3-4-5 and 6bits but that does not mandate a 6bit word width on the machine
<epony>
it was a temporary overlap that proved incorrect by design of trial and error and machine performance analysis
<epony>
there is important coding theory in the implementation of the electronics and information theory in the design of the processing algorithms and density of information (channel saturation)
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<epony>
these combined result in the stabilisation around 8bit words
<epony>
the rest is a multiplication of that, in the same way as half and multiples with fraction-halves too in the intermediary register vs data bus widths
<epony>
PDP11 is a 16bit machine, the previous models had varying word sizes in the characted width matching size which proved inefficient and a failed design
<epony>
PDP-11 is where system durable desings get implemented
<epony>
starting from the earlier UNIBUS adoption
<epony>
it's also very strictly dependent on the logic family of intergrated electronics circuits modules (the IC chips)
<epony>
these are binary and go in pairs of 4 and multiple logic blocks in an IC, that is the nibble defining element
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<epony>
it's also a transition between BCD and Binary and Octal
<epony>
for simplicity, remember that the electronics set the premises of the software, that is the relation of implementation towards making good use of it
<epony>
it's NEVER the reversed relation
<epony>
so inventing rationale as character coding for logic family organisation does not exist
<epony>
the machines in the PDP epoch are called mini-computers and include discrete ICs that have many of them on a large board, which is vertically inserted into a rail slot and many such boards form a row
<epony>
a functional block in the microprocessor takes several boards (the better part of a row) to a couple of rows
<epony>
that is an part of the computing central processor and you have several such at minimum, and then you have to have registers, and memory
<epony>
without it it's not a computer, then you have to have bus and input output interfaces, and also a disk and tape controller series, and floppy controllers too
<epony>
that is why the machines were several (more than 4, typically 8 or more) vertical full height racks with the bottom parts taking power supply units and cooling ventilation and regrigeration systems with coolant like the fridges
<epony>
around 1965 machines stabilised on 8bit characters and that matches the 8bit words since 1970
<epony>
the previous generations of machines were obsoleted with this transit
<epony>
that also sets the UNIX epoch, and the end of domain specific languages and the epoch of the generally programmable machines and languages for systems programming in the 1968-1970 period in the BCPL (PL) Algol 60 to Algol 68 family
<epony>
that also sets the end of the mainframe
<epony>
and provides the premises for machines used to design the next generation of machines with CAD work with the graphical displays of CRT monitors (with raster, prioto to that vector graphics)
<epony>
in the 1970 to 1975 terminals appear to replace the teletypes and the micro-computers to replace the terminals immediately with zero wait time so the terminals are immediately obsoleted
<epony>
teletypes and terminals continue to be used in the early 80ies on the mini-computers interchangeably with the 8bit PCs taking that role
<epony>
1976-1978 sets the end of the 8bit PC computing epoch
<epony>
and the end of 8bit mini-computers too
<epony>
1978 sees the 32bit mini-computers in compact rack format
<epony>
that is the end of the mini-computers too
<epony>
1980-1990 is an 16bit micro-computers and 32bit mini-computer epoch replaced with RISC workstations as an attempt to profit from the reduced strength micro-computers and separate the machine form factors on features rather than geometric and electrical parameters
<epony>
that is the beginning of the server category of computers which are however not using RISC designs but CISC exclusively as compatibility from the mini-computers and micro-computers
<epony>
RISC is terminated after 10 years of head start as a failure of miniaturisation and integration never to appear on generally programable micro-computers again
<kof123>
> remember that the electronics set the premises of the software yes, but people were computers once :D so...why do humans choose decimal, or whatever else? (rhetorical, but welcome to answers if people wish)
<epony>
the CISC micro-computers gain 32bits and obsolete RISC with the migration from single user to multi-tasking regime of programming with virtual memory and protected mode, and memory management units, and overnight terminates RISC workstations with 10-25x cost reduction for higher performance with the super-scalar out-of-order pipelined prefetch processors in the Pentium (SIMD) generation
<epony>
kof123, "decimal" is antropomorphic for the numbers of digits on human hands
<epony>
binary is information theory and is unavoidable in digital electronics
<epony>
that is for the organisation of the logic in switch mode
<epony>
people are people, computers are machines
<epony>
linguistic and verbal confusion is easy to fix
<kof123>
yes, but other people chose non-decimal. and: Often attributed to Edsger Dijkstra (e.g. Haines 1993, Cohen & Haberman 2007, Denning 2010), but this might be folklore. This quote was published early 1990, in full: o Computer science is not about machines, in the same way that astronomy is not about telescopes. There is an essential unity of mathematics and computer science
<epony>
RISC is a proposal by Tanenbaum ot the UCB / Stanford groups on the West coast computer league universities near the production facilities
<epony>
it resulted in Berkeley RISC by David Patterson et all (collective work) and was used as a cheaper machine with higher profit margins for extremely high return of investment for the financial groups involved in computer management, but not really production.
<epony>
kof123, that quote is incorrect
<epony>
it's from SICP
<kof123>
feynman interesting: * Computer science... differs from physics in that it is not actually a science. It does not study natural objects. Neither is it, as you might think, mathematics; although it does use mathematical reasoning pretty extensively. Rather, computer science is like engineering; it is all about getting something to do something, rather than just dealing with abstractions, as in the pre-Smith geology. + Rich
<kof123>
Feynman, Feynman Lectures on Computation, 1970
<epony>
and is a group of academics in the LISP / MIT / Harvard Eastern coast convention and is often recited without thought
<kof123>
well you didn't say computer science...so i am not trying to raise a strawman
<kof123>
just showing other views
<epony>
the computing is not all there is, there is also communication, and they are both called information processing
<epony>
the fundamental fields are coding theory and information theory
<epony>
that is what information processing is about, and computing and communication are applied engineering for imformation processing with the premises of coding theory and information theory
<epony>
the field is called IT or information theory
<epony>
computing and communication are its applications
<epony>
they are realisation of mathematical modelling and simulation tools for work on physics and physical machines for calculus and symbolics
<epony>
electrical engineering and electronics are implementations of information processing
<epony>
computing and communication are applied uses of this, but the science is called coding theory and information theory in electrical and electronics engineering
<epony>
computation and communication is exactly about the machines
<epony>
that quote is for "hiding the coding and information theory" as electrical and electronics engineering which are physics of information processing
<epony>
the mathematics of information processing is computational methods
<kof123>
sure, but where would lets say...games fit into that? surely for that, computing is merely the means, not the ends. i am more like feynman perhaps, although something for its own sake does not bother me either
<epony>
computers are not the only machines about information processing
<epony>
there are also calculators and other machines
<epony>
games are a mathematical branch
<kof123>
not an entertainment branch ?
<epony>
it's game and set theory
<epony>
that is commercial use of some mathematical game theory applied use and is not necessarily computing
<kof123>
ok, fair
<epony>
games are a serious branch of mathematics and military deeds
<epony>
computer games and communications games are applied engineering with computer machinery for the realisation of the mathematical game and set theory
<epony>
they can be also not involving computing but communications merely and electnics without computation
<epony>
entertainment likes to use efficient and cheap methods to provide engaging games with the interest of profits and commerce
<epony>
these can be board and table and other game systems of mechanical and magneto-electrical or optical design
<epony>
the computer miniaturisation and integration with the advances of computational efficiency proveded an extemely valuable resource for runnign mathematical game and set theory systems as models and simulations
<epony>
prior to that these are electromechanical and electrical systems and non-electric systems
<epony>
people in the theoretical computer science are serious people with electronics and electrical and physics education
<epony>
people in the applied computer sciense are often people from non-physics and purely mathematical or linguistic disciplines and lack fundamental understanding of the underlying machinery and its organisational principles
<epony>
therefore create modelling methodology from the mathematical domain of computaional symbolic operators and their linguistic application
<epony>
that is a failure of computation, as it results in failure to implement machines
<epony>
so the premise is then into theoretical machines, or machine modelling but inability to perform the realisation and simulation of its operation
<epony>
the domain of that discipline is mathematical modelling and is a declarative field with serious and fundamental deficits in that the premise expected to realise is taking the mathematical modelling tooling as an implementation which is not physical but virtual machine modelling technique
<kof123>
yes, that makes sense, "applied" versus not. well...that's conway's law :D
<epony>
the real physical systems strip the "modelling" extra premises and distil the machine to a hardware implementation that realises the "information and coding" elementas of it, not the mathematical model
<epony>
it has its use, but is not in constructing computers, it is in mathematical modelling about computational mathematics
<epony>
that is why that quote is given from the SICP (structure and interpretation of computer programming) disciplines in the LISP family which is a mathematical symbolic computational modelling branch
<epony>
the real deep joke about it, is: Sersiously Incapable of Computer Programming (or the SICP people)
<epony>
because they program the mathematical model, not a real physical system
<epony>
the implementation separates the mathematical model as "declaration" and the physical model as "implementation" and uses and efficient energetic electro-mechanical optical and/or electronic systems to implement the machinery
<epony>
in its physical premises
<epony>
then the machine is complete, and it can carry the entire apparatus of the mathematical "language" for physics as it is a physics natural science that mathematics is derived from, not vice versa (ever)
<epony>
and thus, the computational mathematical modelling of various methods of computation, including symbolic and declarative modelling can happen on the physical machine, including the simulation, and that being efficient and much more reliable than the synthetic (theoretical mathematical non-"machine" but "symbolics")
<epony>
hence the strong nuance in rejecting the SICP opening lecture
<epony>
that is followed by the demise of the Lisp machine, Symbolics machines and the AI winters
<epony>
you know what follows next too ;-)
<epony>
for the current hype-cycle
<epony>
it's a linguistic but not computational system
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<epony>
I can also provide information on the physics and electronic including electrovacuum electromagnetic and magnetoptical systems
<epony>
in shor: the state of matter is energy carrying particles, and there is ONLY two states of that, GAIN or LOSE power and reflective orbital dynamics of it and energy release or accumulation and transit, you can also consult Feynman's work on this too, it's largely about this precisely
<epony>
there is no middle state, or intermediary states of the electron-orbital systems
<epony>
that is the electrical and orther energy carrying particle, regardless of its applied nominalia as the physical phenomena that are being studied at macroscopic and antropometric and larger intrastellar systems
<epony>
at our "plane" of existence, that is the machinery of physics
<epony>
you can also kiss quantum theory goodbye too ;-)
<epony>
there is no third polarity in neither of the forces, they are directional vectors of forward and reverse direction, and can be bent but electricity and energy flows in or out, no middle state
<epony>
the energy system of the universe and series of universes whatever you can imagine, is an isotropic inward and outwards directional energetic exchange and that is formative of matter and its electro-mechanical systems
<epony>
there are no other systems except these funfamental interactions, which are electroenergetic to mattermass systems
<epony>
that's all there is to it
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<epony>
corrections: quartet, metastability, etc
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<AmyMalik>
Mondenkind, I heard that message as turning to noise in my head.
* geist
yawns
<AmyMalik>
sup geist ?
<geist>
not much, just woke up. so cold here
<AmyMalik>
ah
<geist>
just like the fireplace, sitting next to it to warm up
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<AmyMalik>
got some fuel?
<geist>
yah, propane
<AmyMalik>
rip
<geist>
hey i should just be able to throw this bott....
<AmyMalik>
i should plant up a woodlot
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<geist>
well, i do have a lot of trees on my lot but thye're really big
<geist>
most of them are like 100ft tall
<geist>
so it's a bit of a chore to cut them down
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<Bitweasil>
Can you drop them safely, or do they have to come down limb by limb?
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<Bitweasil>
In either case, at 100', eh... that's getting into "Pay someone who knows what they're doing" range.
<Bitweasil>
That's a lot of tree to go wrong on the way down.
<Bitweasil>
I've got some kerosene heaters I use for in-home radiant heat, though the bulk of the house heating is on a heat pump.
<Bitweasil>
Propane is for my office. I don't like the stuff, but it does work...
<geist>
oh totally
<geist>
i think it's something like $1k or so to drop one
<Bitweasil>
That's actually not too bad.
<geist>
same. i have an old fireplace that was years ago converted to propane. i rararely use it but it's about 30k btus (which is i think like 8kW)
<Bitweasil>
I'm assuming they can just drop it down, they don't have to take it apart and lower the pieces with a crane or something?
<geist>
but i only have a 100 gal tank, which isn't terribly large
<Bitweasil>
About 10, I think.
<Bitweasil>
10k is about 3kW.
<Bitweasil>
You lose a good bit of that up the chimney, though.
<Bitweasil>
(10K BTU ~= 3kW is my handwave)
<geist>
yah this is pretty good about getting it into the room via a blower
<Bitweasil>
... and a gallon of propane is 90k BTU, so you're burning about a gallon every 3 hours there.
<geist>
yep, that's about right
<Bitweasil>
Ah, okay. Not just a "log burner insert," but an actually proper propane burner thing.
<geist>
yep. it has a fake log burner, but they replaced the entire unit with an in unit metal thing
<geist>
(was previous owner dont know the details)
<Bitweasil>
That's the way to do it, for sure.
<Bitweasil>
I've got ventless heaters - they "crap where they eat," in terms of exhaust, so I have to be careful with windows.
<Bitweasil>
The house is mostly fine, I can burn 10k BTU/hr of kerosene in there for a while without trouble, my office... I have to be a lot more careful, I've got 10k BTU/hr of propane going in here to heat the place up, a window open with a fan venting some, and I'm still 4000 PPM CO2. :/
<Bitweasil>
(which I can *definitely* feel)
<Bitweasil>
We have the whole cold snap thing too, so I'm getting some heat in here, the combustion way. I don't like it dropping below freezing inside and it was pretty close this morning.
<geist>
yeah it's extraordinarily cold here in seattle (forget wher eyou are). was like 15F (-10C) all yesterday and wont get above freezing until monday
<geist>
which in the grand scheme of things isn't that cold, but places like my house are not set up for it
<geist>
flip side is my house handles heat spikes fantastically
<Bitweasil>
Yeah, it's what you're built for. I'm southwest Idaho, we have the same problem with snow.
<Bitweasil>
We're set up for "a few inches and mostly melted by afternoon." Get a foot and change, which is what we're in the middle of, followed by cold snaps, and... well, that's a problem.
<geist>
huh i thought boise area got really cold a lot?
<geist>
or at least i thought i got cold the same way a lot of eastern washington does, spokane, etc. which i think can get pretty darn cold for a long time
<geist>
but i guess it's all relative
<Bitweasil>
They're up a good bit further north.
<Bitweasil>
We're going to be down in single digit lows (positive, but barely), which is "cold but not that uncommon." A few times a winter, most years.
<Bitweasil>
It's still cold enough that the snow doesn't melt, though.
<Bitweasil>
Even in pretty good sun.
<gog>
hi
<Bitweasil>
How goes it in your corner of the world?
<gog>
it's not cold cold yet but i think that moves in tonight
<gog>
we're gonna have highs of -10°C all week
<Bitweasil>
Oof. Chilly!
<gog>
yeh
<gog>
baldur's gate time
<Bitweasil>
Alright, office heated up enough, I'm out. Later!
<geist>
i bet everyone is going to start making something with that panel, whoever is making it
<geist>
samsung maybe?
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<heat_>
i sell propane and propane accessories
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<mcrod>
hi
<mcrod>
hey a 4K 32" like mine
<geist>
yah, key is this one is OLED and 240hz
<geist>
basically OLED panels are just starting to get slightly afforable
<geist>
though this is still $1200
<mcrod>
hm I'd like to have this
<mcrod>
but, yes, I don't know if I'd want to spend $1200
* Mondenkind
wishes somebody other than apple would give a damn about pixel density
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<epony>
OLED is a failure as it ages poorly and delaminates and the colours change and oxidise
<epony>
forget it
<epony>
it's IPS and micro-region backlit dot LEDs
<epony>
OLED is for tape rollers that produce transparent film for car panels and window decoration
<epony>
it's a small form factor technology for linear tape printing
<epony>
AU Optronics and LG make TN/IPS panels, Samsung makes OLED and is a massive failure on larger resolutions commercially it's not used
<nortti>
Bitweasil: you anywhere near snake river, out of interest?
<epony>
you can fall on your face 2 times a day and never get an OLED in the reliabiltiy and durability of the LCD panels
<epony>
IPS is 4K-5K in 21"-24" already
<clever>
my dad left an xbox game paused too long, and now there is very noticable color problems on half the screen
<epony>
OLED is.. way behind
<epony>
it's fucked up
<clever>
was playing tears of the kingdom on it, and the colors are just wrong
<epony>
also OLED is slow and delaminates
<epony>
which is the "plasma" EV (electrovacuum) problems in an organic film emulsion
<epony>
read more research publications on its long term reliability problems before shelling out the cash
<epony>
even if you have disposable income, it's just stupid
<epony>
5 years is the planned lifespan
<epony>
TN and IPS LCD matrices last 15 years
<epony>
for a franction of the cost
<epony>
and with 15-20 years head start
<epony>
organic panels are a foil printing method for the signage and receptionist industry for dashboards and HUDs
<epony>
of the low durability type
<epony>
it's like drawing with coloid-electret solutions
<heat>
clever, lol what, how long?
<heat>
4 years?
<clever>
heat: unknown, likely under a day
<epony>
1-2 days and it's set in
<epony>
yes
<epony>
it's a fuckup fail mode
<clever>
the switch will automatically dim when idle, and eventually turn off
<epony>
IPS needs 5-10 years for that effect to set in
<clever>
i'm not sure why the xbox was fine with staying on for hours at a pause screen
<epony>
because Microsoft don't give a shit about Samsung
<epony>
they hate each other like the magnet poles
<kof123>
secretly in love?
<epony>
nope
<kof123>
:)
<epony>
hate to the death of the software
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<epony>
after all Samsung is the largest memory and display panel producer
<epony>
and controlls the multimedia sector on mobiles where Microsoft ate shit
<epony>
USA hates Samsung and Korea / Japan / China
<epony>
includes JVC Akai Aiwa Sony Sanyo Casio Seiko Nicon Canon..
<epony>
everything, mortal enemies
<epony>
only subservient abused and disowned weaker companies are used by the USA
<epony>
conglomerates of financial speculation with military enforced dependencies and suffratude
<epony>
independents and cometitors are.. abused and scheduled for cancellation and termination
<epony>
and if they make ships and engines.. the problem is.. USA hates that and that is going to result in economic failure and death of an empire before hugs kisses and buttplugs gifts
<epony>
so the chance of USA "liking" and "accepting" Samsung and Huawei is negative zero in frozen hell
<epony>
like never
<epony>
regardless Job Widen ot Trolland Dump
<epony>
USA foreign policy does not change ever, it's a 250 year old capitalist imperial dictat
<epony>
and it fucks up everything in its path for the ultimate destruction if it does not comply
<epony>
the South Korean chaebol is a fake peace, it can errupt any second, and with Taiwan pressure is unpredictable
<epony>
same with Japan previously, so the Capitalist Imperialism is shifting to fuck up Hindustani Bharat now (Eastern India as you know it)
<epony>
it's going to be a 25 year period
<epony>
elections are this year for 4 billion people including Eastern and Western India, you just watch and enjoy the shit show
<epony>
Taiwanese imperial fascists are already in cartel with Samsung warlords over South-West USA factories and up in the abandon midlands
<epony>
but they both are getting screwed (TW and KR)
<ThinkT510>
you sound very embittered when talking politics. maybe stick to just tech
<epony>
and they know it and can't prevent it
<epony>
ThinkT510, maybe you can buy a better nickname for a computer model, this one is CIA/NSA toyland of naive brainless people useds.
<epony>
I slapped you once before
<ThinkT510>
are you ok?
<epony>
ThinkT510, look in the mirror, do you think anyone cares about your opinion..
<epony>
the events outlined above are real and massive outlines of computing and electronics
<epony>
ThinkT510, you're a brain fart
<epony>
no, are U ok?
<ThinkT510>
not sure why you are personally attacking me. I've seen more of your conversations in #linux and you seem quite knowledgable
<epony>
obviously not, it annoys you, deal with it
<epony>
ThinkT510, and you seem quite a mote point
<epony>
I'll tell you a quick story
<epony>
ThinkPad's are a failed marketing attempt for IBM to remain relevant in the sub-computer (portable) form factor and they failed it, but in the mean time complied and overly participated in all the surveillance and tamper procurements in the US govermentment and its secretly funded under and subverted implant programmes
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<epony>
from Prism to Tailored Access Operations to semiconductor firmware implants
<ThinkT510>
just to put your mind at rest this is a nickname I've used for a while. I'm not actually running a thinkpad t510
<epony>
you're are wearing the brand name of a failed technology business vendor reseller of Chinese ODM companies, and are full of nuance and tone, as a mildly psichotic bipolar person of no gender identity, for being branded and sold naive crapware that is udnermined and vulnerable in 25-50 implants in a single product unit
<nortti>
what do you use nowadays?
<ThinkT510>
this machine I've nicknamed silentpc because it has no fan
<epony>
so.. consider that before asking others are they "alright"
<ThinkT510>
it is a generic no branded model
<ThinkT510>
bought it off ebay several years ago
<epony>
your "starting" premise is NOT alright as in it's sickeningly infected and implantated
<epony>
throw it out the window if you like, it's a failed marketing campaign for resellers second and third hand tamper refurbish shop
<epony>
does not work
<ThinkT510>
epony: maybe we can start over again. I'm seriously not trying to antagonise you.
<epony>
and does not get the business contracts since Lenovo is now Chinese and only uses the brand thinkpad as it.. agreed to keep the implants in firmware
<ThinkT510>
you do seem very knowledgable
<epony>
alright then
<epony>
I don't have anything against an individual person either
<epony>
so.. I know we're not arguing
<epony>
the politics and economics relation is well known and understood model
<epony>
it's a long way to say OLED is not very meaningful on the desktop monitors
<epony>
and Samsung is not accepted in the USA due to political conflicting interests
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<epony>
mostly out of fear and competitive premises of economic dependence
<epony>
but also Samsung is not an electronics only industry and is being feared as economic potential with energy and transportation sectors
<epony>
Korea has risen considerably and that worries the USA political and military forces a lot, it's their number 1 priority after Japan.. Taiwan is third or fourth layer after Hindustan
<epony>
after all these island systems are weak without military and capital of their own as industrial development
<epony>
it's China and Russia that are the super powers in economic and production, and energy and military sectors respectively and these serve the region which concerns and worries USA as critical and extremely volatile priority
<epony>
it's in nuclear energy, fuels and energy resources and military and technological control and dependencies
<epony>
and USA has been losing due to its past wars and getting extremely volatile and aggressively offensive about it
<epony>
so, don't wait with baited breath for the massive OLED adoption unless its an USA owned process in USA production facilities cheaply and with foreign workers doing the work as forced low wage-labour
<shikhin>
Oh is that how the OLEDs in phones are made?
<epony>
that's about as much kisses and hugs you're going to see between "big tech" from the USA and its companion production facilities in Sino-Asian and Hindustano-Arabic regions
<epony>
it's a roll of plastic foil printed with organic stencil goo series of rolls
<epony>
that's it
<epony>
cheap and low end technology
<epony>
"printed" electronics
<epony>
what did you think about it, a 15K value into the production of 1 panel?
<epony>
it's about $10-15.= USD in the phone panel assembly sector for end pricing and $1.= USD to 1.5⁰ USD in the high yield volume batches
<epony>
if you think your phone is more than $50.= USD as combined price of elements and manufacturing.. you're gravely mistaken
<epony>
of these 45 (90%) are for the capitalist imperial system (USA) and 5 (10%) for the socialist manufacturing system (ASEAN)
<epony>
you just pay 10-20x more because you have money to return to your employers and parent vending businesses
<epony>
these are rough and crude estimates, but the reality is unforgiving, it's the same with raw fuels and energy gases and resource minerals and metal ores
<epony>
you live in a fairy land of "inflation" and "comfort", the rest of the world does not live in that bubble of baby colours chewing gum
<epony>
if you think USA is getting some Island owned or some superpower pressured for long term gains and stability, there is no such thing, it's about captive control until the megafirehose sucking vacuum hovercraft ot the imperial capitalism sucknozzle moves over gradually from the Sino-Asian region to the Hindustano-Arabic regions
<epony>
it's happening but very slow, at 5% rate at the moment and China is closing the window in 2 years
<epony>
so chip scarcity.. from the pandemic years.. will look slightly funny in the 2028-2030 period
<epony>
remember that when you aim for the RISC small embedded computers that rely on legacy older processes and feature nodes on small batches in the legacy Chinese factories (which follow the so far Taiwan leading export facilities)
<epony>
2027 is the year that USA loses Taiwan completely
<epony>
the scramble for semiconductors has begun in 2018-2020
<epony>
OLED, meh, who cares ;-)
<epony>
IPS works fine on phones too
<epony>
10-20% larger battery and it exceeds the OLED models by 5-10 years
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<epony>
be more concerned about the µCUs and CPUs and APUs and GPUs
<epony>
and most of all, about memory chips and NAND flash ICs
<epony>
it's the real stagnation, Dutch ASML already blocked exports for China AND Taiwan last year
<epony>
only a failed capitalist system can set itself up for a crisis like that
<epony>
it's going to be the shitstorm meltdown of the economy in 2028-2030
<epony>
exactly like the one in 1998-2000 and 2008-2010 and the 2018-2000 (and before that the 1988-1990 and 1978-1980)
<epony>
I fell asleep while writing this ;-)
<epony>
catch you later
<epony>
it's very boring
<bl4ckb0ne>
hi joss
<epony>
HNY2020.4!
<Ermine>
bl4ckb0ne: hey, how r u
<bl4ckb0ne>
tired
<bl4ckb0ne>
how about you
<Ermine>
I'm tired too
<Ermine>
This week I've learned some uncanny stuff
<bl4ckb0ne>
sometimes, the cup of knowledge overflows
<bl4ckb0ne>
what did you learn
<Ermine>
transponsers used to collect fees on paid roads use DES
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