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<zid>
grr, crashed, even with cores disabled, back to the drawing board
<heat>
damn
<heat>
are you sure it's a CPU problem?
<zid>
not anymore
<zid>
ram maybe? but I'd expect ram to give software issues
<zid>
not random cpu MCEs
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<Affliction>
Might be something betwen the cores and memory - bad L3?
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<zid>
could be, but I have no idea what I'd do to either diagnose that or work around it
<zid>
raise the cache voltage maybe
<zid>
I think that's a setting
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<Ermine>
heat: are there any ELF-related tasks in onyx?
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<sham1>
ELF on a SHELF
<gog>
GOG on a POG
<vdamewood>
DWARF on a WARF
<heat>
Ermine, wdym elf related and why?
<Ermine>
I want to learn ELF all of sudden, so maybe there's something to fix/imrove
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<heat>
first thing i can think of: fuzz the ELF loader. the kernel supports KCOV already, so imagining something like afl or llvm-fuzzer isn't too hard to port (i'm not sure if i've ported the llvm-fuzzer yet...), you could effectively fuzz it
<heat>
second thing i can think of: the module loader has all sorts of rot, and there's no support for riscv nor arm64 there
<heat>
the module loader effectively just links a .o against the kernel, so it's a bit gnarly and complex
<Ermine>
thank you!
<heat>
np, feel free to ping me or message me for more info
<heat>
or open an issue or whatever
<heat>
or email me
<heat>
or send me a letter
<zid>
comment on his onlyfans
<heat>
send me a fax even
<heat>
subscribe with your amazon prime free sub
<heat>
on a sidenote: i found out sourcehut supports email-based workflows with send-email (I think?) and i'm curious enough to maybe try it once the outage is over
<zid>
what is sourcehut
<zid>
is it like pizzahut but they only sell like, carbonara, ketchup, etc?
<heat>
it's ddevault's git forge
<zid>
I don't know who ddevault is, and I have never heard the term you just made up of 'git forge'
<GeDaMo>
Like github
<heat>
ddevault aka sircmpwn aka a guy who's been hanging around #osdev for quite some time
<GeDaMo>
And ddevault has been in here talking about their OS
<heat>
yes
<heat>
and yeah git forge is best described as "like github or gitlab"
<zid>
I think maybe you should stop using 'forge'
<zid>
and say 'webhost'
<heat>
webhost doesn't describe it properly
<zid>
except that's what github is?
<heat>
github and gitlab are offer way more than "remote server you push commits to"
<bslsk05>
sourcehut.org: Information regarding the SourceHut outage
<sham1>
But the reason we call them forges is because of SourceForge
<sham1>
Remember that? Yeah, it was a while ago
<zid>
You mean sf.net
<zid>
sourgeforge at least makes sense
<zid>
given it was about *crafting* software packages
<sham1>
And that's the same with GitHub, GitLab, Gogs, SourceHut et al
<zid>
not in the least
<zid>
it's a remote git host with a web interface
<sham1>
And SourceForge was an svn host with a web interface
<sham1>
Maybe even CVS at some point
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<netbsduser>
what do people think of solaris's slab allocator's consolidator? (it provides for objects to be moved out of slabs to reduce the number of partial slabs and increase the number of full slabs)
<netbsduser>
conceptually i like it but in illumos i can only find it used for ZFS dnodes and znodes
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<zid>
heat: mcrod is stalking me, help
<mcrod>
no i’m not
<zid>
yes he is
<mcrod>
i’m just a child of two different worlds
<zid>
zid: member since jun 2023, mcrod: member since oct 2023
<mcrod>
:)
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<Ermine>
I'm still going to call it a forge
<Ermine>
why tf ld doesn't want to put two sections in one PT_LOAD segment
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<zid>
flags don't match?
<zid>
non-contiguous?
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<Ermine>
yes
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<zid>
you're welcome then
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<kof123>
hut is good, it is kind of tropical
<nikolar>
tropical=
<nikolar>
tropical?
<bl4ckb0ne>
tropical < optimal
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<zid>
tropical > optimal
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<kof123>
i was thinking lego witch doctor with red mask churns out code, but feel free to make your own interpretation :D
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<nikolar>
simh apparently supports some ethernet controllers for pdp11
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<geist>
yep
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<heat>
hmm how big is lwip?
<heat>
could you ever fit that into a pdp11?
<geist>
sure. i mean yo ucould fit a much beefier one into a pdp11
<nortti>
that was the contiki one? should fit then yeah
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<heat>
geist, why /netunix then?
<geist>
because it plus the kernel was larger than 64k segment
<heat>
i mean, i guess it fits but it's just awfully hacky
<geist>
seems like that fits to me
<geist>
i mean the whole os is context switching processes and whatnot. it just deals with the fact that the kernel is too big to fit in one segment
<geist>
depends on your point of view i guess
<geist>
i guess you more precisely mean ca you build a kernel + lwip in 64k? sure
<geist>
maybe? i haven't tried running LK on it, since i dont particulary want to add 16 bit compat to it
<geist>
it's my experience that lwip is pretty small. the core bits are basically a single thread that just loops through a queue of things to deal with
<geist>
or not even thread, in an unthreaded environment you just pump it by calling a process routine all the time
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<nikolar>
has anyone tried doing that
<nikolar>
lwip on pp
<nikolar>
pd
<nikolar>
pdp
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<heat>
my network stack definitely doesn't fit into 64KiB
<heat>
why's it so GOD DAMN BLOATED
<sbalmos>
it gave up on its resolution to slim down
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<nikolar>
heh
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<heat>
hrm maybe it's not so bloated
<heat>
something looks broken in bloaty
<nikolar>
can't be that bad
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<heat>
-d compileunits,symbols is routinely mistaking symbols
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<heat>
i.e everything in my amap implementation is getting attributed to kernel/mm/reclaim.cpp
<heat>
my lib/interval_tree/interval_tree_test.cpp has an arc4random implementation
<netbsduser>
my kernel runs on qemu's "virt" machine and on amigas with a 68040 or 060 with MMU
<nikolar>
nice
<Cindy>
nice
<heat>
i'd love to get my thing running on a 32-bit arch
<heat>
but i'm afraid it'll be a PITA
<netbsduser>
fs-uae's gdb support is lacklustre which makes the amiga port harder to work on
<heat>
i could /maybe/ limit 32-bit architectures to the lower ~800MiB memory
<nikolar>
is it reasonable to limit yourself to paging systems
<heat>
yes
<netbsduser>
heat: this is what i did
<nikolar>
ie non 32bit x86 for the most part
<netbsduser>
a direct map is just too useful
<heat>
netbsduser, right, i appreciate the engineery-ness of linux's kmap but i dont want to deal with it in many code paths
<nikolar>
yeah true
<heat>
<nikolar> ie non 32bit x86 for the most part <- wdym
<nikolar>
sorry worded it weird
<nikolar>
basically not caring about x86
<netbsduser>
originally i did make a bit of effort to be able to survive without a direct map, i could transition to having a pseudo direct map where there is *individually* contiguous mappings of all individual contiguous memory regions
<heat>
x86 is a paging system
<nikolar>
am i misremembering
<nikolar>
wasn't it a segmented system
<sbalmos>
it is in older modes
<netbsduser>
and when i implemented the "vmem" allocator from solaris i implemented the facility whereby with a static pool of boundary tags, you can have kmem slab depend on vmem which in turn depends on kmem slab. but i moved my kmem to use direct-mapped pages for 1-page slabs
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<heat>
16-bit only has segments, 32-bit has segments and paging, 64-bit has pseudo-segments and mostly paging
<netbsduser>
nikolar: you can forget about the segmentation for the most part if you build a modern (as in late 70s or beyond) kernel
<nikolar>
netbsduser: nice
<nikolar>
netbsduser: yeah that's what i thought too
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<nikolar>
but x86 is weird so guess i got it confused
<heat>
i'd love to use x86 segments for something but gcc won't play too well with that
<heat>
at least when it comes to separate code and data
<nikolar>
any particular ideas in mind heat
<nikolar>
or just in general
<netbsduser>
one of the remaining uses for the segmentation facilities would be for TLS, as in amd64, but on i386 i think it's %fs that's used for it rather than %gs
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<nikolar>
yeah but that kind of barely counts
<heat>
nikolar, making my other OS (a shitnix) have a literal data segment that grows with brk
<heat>
basically an ode to old shitnixes and old x86 segmentation
<nikolar>
heh sounds good to me
<heat>
i guess having a single process segment and growing it also works, but it's just not the same
<netbsduser>
if i ever targeted the i386 it would not be for my ""serious"" kernel but for some kind of elaborate practical joke
<heat>
yep
<heat>
i implemented the mckusick-karels allocator
<heat>
it's hilarious
<netbsduser>
it would have to make full use of segmentation, the virtual 8086 mode, all of the fun stuff
<nikolar>
lol switching to 8086 to do bios calls and all that
<heat>
i've been writing code as obtusely as possible
<heat>
basically "what would keith bostic do"
<nikolar>
what's wrong with mckusick-karels
<heat>
it can't reclaim pages at all
<nikolar>
oh yeah that's bad
<heat>
once malloc grabs a page, it's pinned to malloc, to that specific object size
<nikolar>
how often did systems run out of ram using it
<heat>
i guess it's a step up from "struct inode inodes[NINODES];"
<heat>
no clue
<nikolar>
"struct inode inodes[NINODES];" is fine when you're running on 16bit
<heat>
fairly sure this was a thing even in 32-bit UNIX. early at least
<nikolar>
well at that point i think you could afford a proper allocator
<heat>
i mean, they also had malloc in 16-bit
<heat>
it just sucked
<nikolar>
it worked i guess ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
<heat>
accurate description of UNIX
<nikolar>
heh
<nikolar>
UNIX(tm)
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<Mondenkind>
int fds[1024]; /* ought to be enough for everybody */
<heat>
sir
<heat>
why is your file descriptor array just ints
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<sortie>
heat, you can store a whole 32 bits of information in such a beast!
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<heat>
oh boohoo look at mr fancy pants here with his 32-bit ints
<sortie>
Hey I worked my way up from the two bit factory!
<heat>
TwoBitFactoryFactory
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<sham1>
UNIX(R)
<nikolar>
that one
<sham1>
Get your trademark symbols correct smh
<nikolar>
you're right, my bad
<heat>
UNIXⓇ
<sham1>
There we go
<nikolar>
heat won
<ThinkT510>
but at what cost?
<nikolar>
kek
<heat>
do NOT let me win
<heat>
that'll inflate my ego
<nikolar>
can it get even bigger
<sortie>
heat, your OS is cute, here watch real OS bootstrap
<heat>
sortie, my OS thinks you're cute too 😳
<sortie>
You wanna be the cc1 to my gcc
<heat>
the cc1plus to your cc1
<nikolar>
get a room you two
<sham1>
Hm, apparently I can type ® with Compose key
<sham1>
Neat
<sham1>
Both with <Compose> O R or <Compose> ( R )