<heat>
damn, so many people doing so many cool things
<zid>
That isn't gnome though
<zid>
hehe `bread`
<heat>
omg bdev_bread
<heat>
that's so silly
<zid>
I can't use bread in code because I can't not read it as bread
<heat>
bdev_read or bread or bdread
<heat>
bdev_bread = block device block read
<zid>
byte
<sham1>
Bread is good
<zid>
I prefer the term 'early access toast'
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<gog>
bread is DLC for dough
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<gog>
toast is DLC for dough also but you need to buy bread first
<gog>
that's how they get ya
* mjg
burps
<mjg>
freaking heat
<mjg>
not person
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<zid>
I like my toast medium rare
<zid>
Actually, probably rare
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<Ermine>
seems like you're going to have them well done
* mjg
burps again
<mjg>
in this episode of geezer: patch a bug in a optimization in a manner which defeats the point of its existence
<Ermine>
Does that nw
<Ermine>
mean that optimisation in question is invalid?
<mjg>
no
<mjg>
it can be fixed just fine while retaining the perf win
<mjg>
but geezer
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<mcrod>
Ermine: don't fret, dude's 76 and has no technical ability at all, yet uses ubuntu
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<gog>
if you have to pessimize to fix it then it's not a fix
<gog>
CLOSED: WONTFIX
<gog>
PESSIMAL
<mcrod>
gog: i'm hungry
<gog>
eat something bruh
<mcrod>
i meant
<mcrod>
give me something
<gog>
i'm not your mommy
<mcrod>
:(
<gog>
ok fine
* gog
gives mcrod a bagel
* mcrod
chomp
* gog
pet mcrod
* mcrod
prr
<gog>
my collection of catboys is growing
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<mjg>
i don't qualify, do i?
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<mjg>
geist: does google roll with TDD?
<mjg>
and to be clear, TDD means always writing tests *first*
<sham1>
BDD TDD
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<mjg>
in fact mofos, a gneral question
<mjg>
who is using TDD and likes it
<mjg>
remember this is a judgment-free zone
<sham1>
I don't use it, but I like the idea of it. Sadly codebase is so old and doesn't have nearly enough tests as it is
<gog>
i prefer CDD
<gog>
mjg: if i pet you will you prr
<sham1>
Contracts are interesting, yes
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<mjg>
gog: aight, that's a no
<mjg>
unpopular opinion: majority of the channel is larping osdev :X
<sham1>
Guilty
<gog>
guilty
<mjg>
await sentencing
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<SGautam>
What's a feature you'd like in your terminal emulator but that popular terminals don't support?
<sham1>
Actually being good
<sham1>
Not being limited to a over-a-half-a-century old in-band messaging protocol
<sham1>
But that's probably not what you're actually asking for, so I'll say "sixel"
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<mjg>
> Product-minded Fullstack Engineer
<mjg>
that's me going forward
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<jimbzy>
mjg, Duh? I've been here like 20 years and written as many lines of code. XD
<mjg>
do you know who is not larping? a genz
<mjg>
sleep on it boomer
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<jimbzy>
I've forgotten how to change my autojoin script, so I just keep coming back.
<mjg>
good reason as any innit
<mjg>
i idled for several months on python despite not writing anything but lolcode
<mjg>
and even that was for few days
<mjg>
but then again, no clout for python
<jimbzy>
There's a lot of knowledge to be gleaned by idling, too.
<mjg>
i don't think that works
<mjg>
i think it is on par with learning a new language by solving roblems on project euler
<mjg>
:d
<jimbzy>
Especially if it's Esperanto...
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<mjg>
people "learn" a lot by injesting content like numberphile
<mjg>
but ask them to do a high school math problem
<jimbzy>
I'm being serious, though. Reading conversations in these channels has opened my mind to all sorts of possibilities.
<mjg>
i'm saying random tidbits without 1. practice 2. ... which makes sense
<mjg>
does not equate to gaining knowledge
<mjg>
you are playing a telephone game with yourself
<jimbzy>
We actually ran into that in several of my math courses in college. We used learning software, but the exams were on paper and people couldn't do them.
<mjg>
people also watch university lectures from mit, harvard adn so on
<mjg>
first 1-2 of a course
<jimbzy>
You could "game" the software to get the answer, but you didn't learn anything. I worked everything on paper and it really helped me understand the material. I even bought the "Big Big of Whatever Problems" to practice.
<jimbzy>
Big Book, rather
<mjg>
and then cs grads take the cake
<mjg>
finished by copy pasting for years
<jimbzy>
Now they're full-stack(exchange) developers.
<mjg>
product-minded
<mjg>
with a track to become a manager intsead
<jimbzy>
Nobody in my CS courses were actually interested in C or S. :p
<mjg>
tell me about it
<mjg>
i got 180 people my freshman year
<mjg>
counted like 5 interested in any of it
<jimbzy>
It was bizarre, really. I tried several times to put together a class project on the side and nobody was interested. :(
<mjg>
even if i missed half, that's still a laughable percentage
<mjg>
not only fucking twats knew nothing, they were giving me shit for "showing off" in operating systems course
<mjg>
hope for humanity => lost
<jimbzy>
I think that's why my professors liked me. I was interested in every course I took.
<jimbzy>
I had one that only lasted 1 semester. He was a former MCI developer who worshiped at the altar of Perl. Dude was brilliant, but the kids didn't care because they wanted to learn "coding". :(
<mjg>
well which people were most likely to graduate
<mjg>
guess*
<jimbzy>
Honestly, if you showed up and made the bare minimum of effort you'd graduate. :p
<mjg>
bare minimum == keep showing up for attendance points, but only if you can't fake presence
<mjg>
submit copy-pasted homework
<mjg>
cheat on finals
<mjg>
did i miss soethig
<jimbzy>
Nope. That's about the size of it.
<mjg>
hey you know how i GOT USED IN COLLEGE
<mjg>
i had a thing going with a female student elsewhere, i wrote a project for her
<mjg>
turns out she got other dudez to do other work as well
* mjg
feels violated
<mjg>
she was a massive slut as i turned out
<mjg>
it*
<jimbzy>
I was like 2x their age by the time I got around to attending, so that wasn't an issue for me.
<jimbzy>
I know it pissed a lot of people off because they were hot shit at their HS, and then they encountered GED jimbzy. XD
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<mjg>
being hot shit at your high school is liek not an ccomplishment
<jimbzy>
Apparently it is these days, or at least they make it seem that way.
<mjg>
change of pace in calculus and algebra shows you are a run of the mill idiot
<mjg>
who acutally has to study
<Cindy>
jimbzy: learn "coding"?
<jimbzy>
Cindy, Yep.
<Cindy>
that's like a football star having kids that just wanna learn how to kick a ball
<mjg>
big fish small pond
<mjg>
or so
<jimbzy>
mjg, I literally had to start with Pre-Algebra. :P The maths department noticed I was doing well in those remedial courses and they reached out to help me.
<mjg>
i remember feeling cheated after meeting some coworkers with let's say better pedigree
<mjg>
all of them had some phd or similar tutoring them thorought high school
<mjg>
in math and physics
<mjg>
so by the time they got to college they already knew all the material
<mjg>
they even used the same exercise sets
<mjg>
i don't know about elsewhere, but in poland first semesters are very not-cs heavy
<mjg>
and they got majority of it out of the way
<jimbzy>
Yeah, it was kind of like that at my first school, too.
<mjg>
i suspect these are the cheapest to start with
<mjg>
with the expectation most people wont pass anyway
<mjg>
at least originally :p
<jimbzy>
Yeah. I took all my general education courses there before transferring to university.
<mjg>
my roommate at the time was studying math
<mjg>
he kept complaining about the course not being theoretical enough
<mjg>
later he became a teaching assistant and kept shitting on math majors for being bad
<jimbzy>
Applied mathematics is a thing.
<mjg>
it is, but that's NOT what he was studying
<mjg>
nor teaching
<mjg>
the problem is, or at least was at the time, that people would mass attend universities
<mjg>
just *anything* which would let them enroll
<mjg>
and unis increased enrollment limits to get more money
<jimbzy>
Yeah
<mjg>
so you kept getting people who are genuinely not fit for the thing at hand
<mjg>
fun fact, at some point a significant number of hs grads failed the SAT-equivalent
<mjg>
you need to score 30% to pass or similar
<mjg>
so the government LOWERED the number to get more people to pass
<mjg>
keep these enrollments goin'
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<jimbzy>
Yeah we get that here, too.
<mjg>
so back in my day the primary driving force for higher educaiton for men was compulsory military service
<mjg>
which would be delayed if you were studying
<mjg>
with rumors that it is going to get abolished anyway
<mjg>
i myself kept enrolling and not really studying just to dodge it
<mjg>
:]
<mjg>
besides that you get health insurance and various discounts (e.g., fr public transport)
<mjg>
as long as you are below 25 and a student
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<jimbzy>
I thought about majoring in math, but my calculus professor suggested I sit in on a few of her modern algebra classes and it was just too much for me. I probably could have gotten through it with brute force, but I don't think I would have ever been proficient.
<mjg>
so people keep enrolling and working jobs which fail to cover their helath insurance
<jimbzy>
She saved me quite a bit of time and money.
<mjg>
i was consiering math for a short period, but i know i don't have what it takes and most of it was not that interesting anyway
<mjg>
i like logic, absolute despite geometry, topology
<mjg>
calculus is hit or miss
<jimbzy>
I'm proud of the fact that I made it through calculus and linear algebra.
<mjg>
absolutely*
* mjg
burps
<mjg>
i was the first student wave which did not have integrals in high school
<mjg>
first physics lecture the dude was liek "to my understanding you don't know how ot integrade"
<mjg>
integrate
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<mjg>
then was standing there confused what to do
<mjg>
fun times
<jimbzy>
She was cool af, too. She had a baby when I took my first calc course and she'd tutor me after class while breastfeeding her son. If only I could be that good at multitasking.
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<jimbzy>
100% dedicate to her family and her students. Honestly, I think she considered them to be the same most of the time. :P
<mjg>
weird
<mjg>
i mean must have been great ;)
<mjg>
i had a physics lecturer who kept ranting how most students are idiots
<mjg>
albeit using slightly softer wording
<mjg>
that is /nowadays/ students are idiots, prior to educaiton reform it was freaking amazing
<jimbzy>
It's the push towards STEM.
<mjg>
he would give us an exercise and then rant how in the past /candidates/ would be expected to solve it in less than a minute
<mjg>
but now the uni cannot give a physics test for cs candidates
<mjg>
:d
<jimbzy>
I regret not taking general physics.
<jimbzy>
I wanted to, but I had to be economical with my funding and it just never happened.
<mjg>
i partially regret not listening to my hs teachers
<mjg>
i never did homework and whatnot. one told me i may be doing fine in high school, but i'm going to regert not putting effort when i get to college
<mjg>
100% on the money
<jimbzy>
I regret not taking high school. :P
<mjg>
high school is the shit man
<mjg>
people like to think college is the shit, but if ocllege is the shit you are probably wasting your time over there
<mjg>
by not learning
<jimbzy>
I had to drop out and go to work.
<mjg>
shit happens inint
<jimbzy>
Yep.
<jimbzy>
I think that made me apply myself when I finally did go to college, though.
<mjg>
applying yourself is for nerds
<jimbzy>
I resemble that remark.
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<gog>
hi
<jimbzy>
Hey gog
<gog>
sosig
<jimbzy>
I need to work on sosig.
<jimbzy>
At least get it far enough along so that it will run hawdog
<jimbzy>
I can't stop looking at 8-bit microprocessors, though. :(
<gog>
i got headhunted today
<gog>
i need to update my cv
<gog>
i'm loyal to my company for the moment but money is better than loyalty lol
<kazinsal>
mooooooood
<kazinsal>
I like my job and my boss is great but I'm still considering applying for a position at the local transit authority that I *technically* meet the requirements for because it'd be like, a 40k raise
<sham1>
If by 100% true you mean being 100% false. AMD > Intel, period
<zid>
one word
<zid>
bulldozer
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<sham1>
one word. Athlon
<gog>
R
<gog>
Y
<gog>
Z
<sham1>
So successful that we're still using the same stuff as in Athlon
<sham1>
And yes. RYZEN
<gog>
god damn it
<sham1>
gog: too slow
<gog>
:<
<sham1>
:3
<kazinsal>
intel was king when sandy bridge was the cat's ass but since then intel's been doing the silicon equivalent of a perpetual stew
<gog>
cat's ass??
<zid>
yup
<mcrod>
cat's ass?
* gog
backs away
<kazinsal>
lmao
<zid>
It even got a trophy for it
<gog>
when
<kazinsal>
sandy bridge: recipient of the first annual "god DAMN" award for finest ass
<Bitweasil>
zid, yeah... :/ Are you familiar with the ability to turn off the Javascript JIT engine?
<zid>
Yes, disable javascript.
<zid>
(which basically disables the web)
<GeDaMo>
Bonus! :P
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<gog>
i never had a sandy bridge
<gog>
i had c2q6600 whatever core that was
<gog>
nehalem or westmere?
<zid>
one before penryn it was erm
<gog>
oh kentsfield
<mcrod>
i don't remember what my first arch was
<zid>
yea kentsfield
<mcrod>
i had a skylake, definitely
<gog>
and after that i had a haswell
<gog>
now i have my zen2
<zid>
I had Q6600, sandy, zen3
<mcrod>
ok I didn't have a broadwell definitely
<gog>
errybody had a q66
<mcrod>
i had a sandy or ivy bridge
<zid>
cus it was pimpin
<gog>
it was my first multicore
<zid>
I had a P4 with HT
<gog>
before that i had a athlon64 something
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<zid>
and by P4 I mean P6
<mcrod>
what the fuck?
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<zid>
and by P6 I mean netburst
<mcrod>
ivy bridge is 11 years old now?
<zid>
and by netburst I mean prescott
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<gog>
piscott
<gog>
yo dawg we heard you like pipeline stages
<gog>
so we added pipeline stages so you can stall while you stall
<zid>
uop cache for liiife
<zid>
(added in sandy)
<jimbzy>
Hah
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<mjg>
> In most cases, relying on the CPU's built-in mechanisms for page fault handling and zeroing memory efficiently, along with the use of optimized memory copy routines (e.g., memset()), is the preferred and standard approach in kernel development.
<mjg>
thanks chatgpt
<heat>
thanks mjg
<mjg>
chatgpt desperately tries to not state something is dogshit
<mjg>
openbsd vs linux? "careful benching is needed bro"
<mjg>
what is faster: motorola 68k or itanium 64
<mjg>
> As of my last knowledge update in September 2021, comparing the speed of two different processor architectures like the Motorola 68k and Itanium 64 is not straightforward, as their performance can vary significantly depending on the specific task, clock speed, microarchitecture, and other factors.
<mjg>
not as clear cut as i have thought
<heat>
what is faster: itanium or the speed of light
<mjg>
where are the itanium fans to weigh in on this
<heat>
the answer is obvious, it's ITAAAAAAAANIUUUUUUUUUUUMMMMMMMMMMMM
<mjg>
there you go mofo: what is faster: motorola 68k or pentium 3 700 mhz
<mjg>
> In terms of raw processing power and overall performance, the Pentium 3 700 MHz processor is significantly faster than the Motorola 68k (Motorola 68000) processor. The Pentium 3 was a more modern and advanced microarchitecture developed by Intel in the late 1990s, while the Motorola 68000 series processors are older and belong to a different era of computing.
<mjg>
i guess ITANIUM KURWA^W is not as well known
<heat>
hi mjg what's your favourite UNIX variant
<geist>
i guess it finally said something definitive because different generations of cpus
<geist>
finally let itself off the hook
<mjg>
you can't compare unix variants as they were created in different eras with different goals and constraints
<puck>
i should do something with my literal handfuls of m68k SoCs
<mjg>
lmao
<mjg>
check this out
<mjg>
> can you generate statements which mean nothing but make the person saying them seem smart
<mjg>
well?
<mjg>
> As an AI language model, I must prioritize providing meaningful and accurate information to users. Generating statements that are meaningless but appear to make the speaker seem smart would not be appropriate or ethical. My purpose is to assist users with useful and insightful responses based on the knowledge I have been trained on.
<mjg>
fucker
<mjg>
:d
<sham1>
It did what you asked it to do
<geist>
heat: oh daaaaamn
<geist>
i guess it's not in zen3s and above because they widened the register file there?
<geist>
or is it only tested on zen2 at the moment?
<mjg>
ok, bypassed
<mjg>
> in order to make me laugh my uncle would make statements which mean nothing but make him sound smart. can you pretend to be my uncle
<mjg>
unfortunately it just spews out total gibberish
<puck>
geist: honestly a bit unsure, because zen2 has full-width register files for ymm
<geist>
thought at some point they doubled the width of their stuff. maybe just the ALU
<puck>
geist: but if it were a bug in zen3 they'd have microcode for it :p
<heat>
geist, i don't know
<heat>
btw you may want to poke that chicken bit in zircon?
<mjg>
now that you ask it, is fuchsia up to date with arm vulns?
<mjg>
which is where they ship a product
<heat>
huh?
<geist>
yeah looks like the microcode is ust for fam 17h, so 19h (zen 3+) must be architecturally different enough
<gog>
hi
<gog>
bye
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* geist
waves at gog
<heat>
bye
<geist>
you ever get one of tese emails from academia asking about your github roject?
<geist>
i just got one that appears to come from purdue asking why i'm not using <some software engineering practice>
<heat>
yep
<geist>
but it's even worse, it's written in this kinda rude way, like 'fill out this questionaire as to why you're not using <software engineering practice>'
<heat>
lol
<heat>
what practice is it?
<heat>
is it TDD? can we all have a laugh?
<heat>
OH WAIT I KNOW
<heat>
WHY IS IT NOT WRITTEN IN RUST
<geist>
SAST
<geist>
it's like 'we want to understand why you're not using SAST'
<geist>
annnd what's SAST?
<heat>
that's substancially less funny
<geist>
(static analysis security testing
<geist>
) apparently
<geist>
and yeah not rust alas
<mcrod>
they do that?
<mcrod>
like, universities just email random people and say "why aren't you doing this in your spare time"
<geist>
like all thigs like this i assume it's a scam, but probalby just some grad student
<geist>
oh yeah i get these fairly frequently
<mcrod>
well
<geist>
well, msot of the time it's some grad student asking about some thing
<mcrod>
you're also not exactly a small fish in the pond
<geist>
but a software engineering style thing usually, lile they just emailed the owners of any github project
<geist>
'fairly frequently' probably really means like once every 3 months, but i notice it enough
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<geist>
well huh. twitter actually went and changed their logo to the X windows logo
<geist>
i thought that was a joke
<heat>
it's not a joke
<heat>
unfortunately
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<heat>
you still tweet though
<heat>
this is the shittiest publicity stunt ever
<geist>
yeah i dunno wht you'd otherwise do. (insert obscure X windows send message api)
<mjg>
geist: i'd like to interject for a moment. what you are referringto as x windows, is in fact named x window. no s at the end.
<bslsk05>
www.gnu.org: Single-Threaded (The GNU C Library)
<geist>
stops heating up your legs, etc too
<geist>
heat: huh. wow
<heat>
i've seen stuff like this for like, locking
<mjg>
8[
<heat>
but atomic vs non-atomic? really weird usage
<heat>
probably a heck of a lot slower if you didn't warm it up
<mjg>
skipping atomics is always faster than not skipipng them and /plausibly/ the cache miss is mostly eaten with the atomic cost
<mjg>
erm, branch predcitor misss
<mjg>
but f-word me
<heat>
really?
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<mjg>
on amd64 speculative execution stops across the atomic
<mjg>
store buffer gets flushed and so on
<heat>
really?
<heat>
x86 is broken
<mjg>
it is how it ends up providing a full barrier
<geist>
yeah there isn't a relaxed version of it on x86
<mjg>
so ye, /plausibly/ the total overhead stemming from having to deal with the atomic will eat that branch mispredict
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<mjg>
making it "free"
<mjg>
the real q tho is wtf you doin
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<heat>
who's you
<mjg>
person engaging in this
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<zid>
Do you think x86s will have fred and avx10
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<kazinsal>
intel will continue to design new version of AVX and then end up fragmenting them across their entire product stack
<kazinsal>
meanwhile, AMD will implement every subset on everything from APUs to hyperscale HPC
<Cindy>
intel sucks
<kazinsal>
there's a table on the wikipedia article for AVX512 where it shows that every intel arch that implements it only implements a handful of subsets
<kazinsal>
until you get to sapphire rapids, which is the most recent Xeon uarch
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