<ih8win8>
I imagine audio would mostly want something like UDP for low latency.
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<Ermine>
If you convert, you use mere routers, not the audio ones
<ih8win8>
Anything with audio, minimizing latency is a major goal.
<[Reinhilde]>
Having latency be consistent is important
<Ermine>
That's why word 'latency' occurs often on #pipewire
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<cloudowind>
function of time
<zid>
shouting latency is almost as good as shouting pessimal
<cloudowind>
does delay = latency
<mcrod>
essentially, yes
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<cloudowind>
between two times
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<cloudowind>
everywhere these ai news these days , yesterday the first ai conference was on tv where journalists were asking questions to ai robots kinda weird it was , times are changing fast hey , i don't know why societies started to praise well coded programs in the name of ai these days
<cloudowind>
one journalists asked to the robot if they are planing to take over the control of the world
<[Reinhilde]>
PESSIMAL LATENCY
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<zid>
996, comeonnn, this is the problem with semantle:p
<GeDaMo>
I have room also at 996 :P
<zid>
The problem is always imo that you'renot sure which part of the venn diagram in of "things of which this is an example" and "things of which are examples of this"
<zid>
aka if you get room you're stuck not knowing if the answer is bedroom or carpet
<Griwes>
praise cmake --graphviz=, and praise xdot, together they make it so easy to track down a spurious dependency
<zid>
I gave up, christ, yea
<zid>
I got semantle jr at least
<zid>
Redid the regex crossword cus fuck it why not
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<gog>
hi
<cloudowind>
hi back
* kazinsal
pets gog
<cloudowind>
you were here few hours ago already where did you go
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* gog
prr
<gog>
i went to bed
<gog>
after months of wearing crooked glasses it still feels weird to have a pair that aren't
<gog>
i keep thinking these are crooked but they're not
<kazinsal>
new glasses day is always fun
<cloudowind>
as long as they help you see better
<gog>
the yhelp me see the same, but they also are more stylish :3
<cloudowind>
well looks like at least they make you see yourself better at least in front of a mirror
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<gog>
true true
<cloudowind>
i see a chimpanzee when i look into the mirror these days
<gog>
i'm sure it's not so bad
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<GeDaMo>
Are you sure that's a mirror and not a picture of a chimpanzee? :|
<cloudowind>
what's wrong with them , they are our closest relatives
<cloudowind>
yours and my grand grand grand grand grand grand grand grand grand grand grand grand grand grand ......... grand mother and father was a chimpanzee
<mjg>
kind of interesting how the big countries with enormous spending can struggle to win a war with a comparatively small country
<mjg>
russia already failed in afghanistan
<mcrod>
even the toughest elephant will be overcome by a swarm of ants
<mjg>
usa kind of held afghanistan... until it fell apart in a split second
<mcrod>
it fell apart because the afghan security forces basically just didn't fight
<mjg>
i know
<mcrod>
it was pretty much a huge waste of tim
<mcrod>
e
<mcrod>
i remember things before 9/11, and of course I remember them after
<mcrod>
it's striking
<sham1>
The Taliban honestly got a raw deal. Now they have to actually be a government and at the start some of the fighters hated that
<mcrod>
i just hope things get better, but I'm not convinced they will
<sham1>
They will
<mjg>
wat
<sham1>
We live in the most prosperous and the most peaceful time in human history. If anything, the fact that this makes us anxious tells just how good things are
<mcrod>
i.. i don't think we're having the most peaceful time in human history
<GeDaMo>
Depends where you are
<sham1>
We are
<sham1>
And globally
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<gog>
nya
<mcrod>
my room is a mess.
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<gog>
clean up your room
* gog
/jbp voice
<gog>
otherwise you'll succumb to CHAOS
* gog
weebs
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* gog
weeps too
<kof123>
i thought that was we're not gonna take it dad voice "this place is a pigsty!" who is this jbp?
<kof123>
monetized debt must go up. define "prosperous". anyways, recommend continue in another channel
<gog>
idk i don't speak rust and i don't know why you're seeking my aproval
<ih8win8>
For some reason, the onboard hub on my pi 3 is returning 0 there as if it's full/low speed only, but I'm pretty sure the hub supports high speed.
<gog>
if you wrote all this you're doing more hobby work than i am lately
<nortti>
heat: I'm pretty sure every single byte sequence does *something* on a 8086
<gog>
and if you wrote all this i'd imagine you're a competent enough coder to fuck around and find out
<heat>
hrmmmmmmm
<titdrop>
i started at april 25 and gave up on may 12, 98 commits total
<gog>
the only other explanation is that this is all somebody else's work and you're cribbing it without attribution
<titdrop>
no, check my github, it all cant be somebody else's work
<gog>
you do have a lot of projects and commits
<gog>
and some of it is in C
<titdrop>
im still stumped by sophia
<ih8win8>
oh, looks like the individual ports have a speed attribute.
<gog>
it's not that complicated. loader.efi loads efi.os loads kernel.os
<gog>
the reason it's all split up like that? because
<gog>
it's not technical, it's part of this experiment
<gog>
which involves ELF DSO's as kernel modules
<titdrop>
im just trying to understand enough to write my own but i just keep getting lost in multitude of specs
<nortti>
heat: what I'm finding suggests 80186 introduced the invalid opcode exception, though I'm not having much luck finding a solid citation. would need to look at the data sheets
<heat>
zid: looking nice
<heat>
oh god
<heat>
what's that cursed prussia color?
<zid>
somehow I have a north to south russia
<heat>
did they recolor prussia?
<zid>
idk maybe
<titdrop>
heat: will you srsly put work into uefi irc client?
<zid>
I'm not sure what I should do next
<heat>
maybe
<titdrop>
can i do the IRC part?
<heat>
no
<titdrop>
:(
<zid>
feed sweden and norway to finland seems obvious, not sure what to do with smolensk
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<heat>
i thought that was our special spot ;_;
<mjg>
i can hold off for few days
<mjg>
but gonna need patchen
<ffname>
Anyone knows what the host_machine system argument should be in meson cross-file for an OS? This doc do me very confuse: https://mesonbuild.com/Reference-manual_builtin_host_machine.html It lists OS names you can put there but doesn't even list 'uefi' which clearly is a valid option that works. What do I tell it to mean "no os"?
<bslsk05>
mesonbuild.com: host_machine
<heat>
system is whatever
<heat>
I do system = 'onyx' and it works everywhere
<bslsk05>
github.com: Onyx/buildpkg/build_sys.py at master · heatd/Onyx · GitHub
<ffname>
dayum, nice os bro
<gog>
heat
<geist>
heat: sup bruh
<gog>
geist:
<heat>
geist: sup bruh
<heat>
gog: buh sruh
<heat>
ffname thanks btw
<clever>
geist: i was thinking about how usb requires only 1 device to be at addr 0 at a time, and realized, does the TT partition things off and kinda allow you to bend the rule?
<geist>
what is TT?
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<clever>
transaction translator
<clever>
for going from HS to LS within a hub
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<clever>
if your buffering a packet in the hub, and the hub is re-timing it to free up the bus for HS traffic, that implies that the addr-0 packets are acting more like its a switch then a hub (using ethernet terms)
<clever>
and from how split-transaction packets need a hub# and port# (i think?), your specifying the full route in the header
<geist>
ah no, i don thtink so
<geist>
i think it's entirely transparent (except maybe at precisely the host controller)
<geist>
what i dunno is precisely how it can deal with tunnelling TT framed LS over HS if the HS is fully occupied
<geist>
ie, how long can it hold onto a frame before finding a slot
<geist>
well, i guess it's always in response to a host packet, so it's probably scheduled up front by the host
<geist>
probably appears to the host as some sort of NYET or whatnot
<heat>
nyet? russia moment
<geist>
haven't read that part of the spec in years, and really didn't care much about it, since at the time i was entirely looking at it from the point of a end device so TT stuff didn't matter
<geist>
yeah there's literally a NYET response on USB
<bslsk05>
stackoverflow.com: peripherals - Purpose of NYET packet in USB 2.0 HS when same purpose is accomplished by NAK - Stack Overflow
<geist>
it was added in usb 2 (along with PING) as a way to avoid chewing up an entire 512 byte frame when polling for data from a device
<gog>
hi
<geist>
really, for mass storage devices. until usb 2 i dont think it was really considered a viable thing to do serious mass storage over it
<heat>
mjg: u mofos aiming for AVX strops?
<geist>
not sure the original designers thought about it that much, was mostly there to replace ps/2, serial, etc
<heat>
or are you going SSE -> AVX -> 512(???)?
<geist>
dealing with a NYET response, switching to PING/etc is also soething a good host controller will do automatically, i presume
<mjg>
heat: there is NDA concerning the entire ordeal i'm afraid
<mjg>
consequently i cannot confirm nor deny
<heat>
ruh roh
<heat>
TOP SECRIT FreeBSD operations
<heat>
gosh darn freebsd sellouts
<mcrod>
you know
<mcrod>
I really wonder how the die hard unix nerds use i3 so well
<mcrod>
and nvim
<ffname>
i do use i3 and nvim
<mcrod>
I really wish I understood
<ffname>
its easy bro, just gotta learn few keys
<heat>
i'm using dwm.exe
<mcrod>
the thing is, with an IDE everything is right there in front of me
<heat>
10/10 my battery isn't getting blown out nor have i gotten an epilepsy attack
<ffname>
with nvim you just need a plugin manager and few plugins
<mcrod>
nvim isn't an IDE, though plugins make it come close
<heat>
mcrod you don't get it do you?
<mcrod>
no
<mcrod>
i don't
<heat>
take nvim, slap 200 plugins on it, boom you're now a cool hacker
<mcrod>
i want to understand how unix people never seem to touch their mouse
<heat>
is it an IDE? yeah, totally. but its in the terminal!!!
<ffname>
i never touch my mouse
<ffname>
i dont have one in fact
<mcrod>
now I think you're just lying to me
<ffname>
im not lying
<ffname>
i even use vimium on browser
<ffname>
so no mouse either
<mcrod>
there's a special place in hell for you
<mcrod>
(just kidding, do what makes you happy)
<mcrod>
I just can't wrap my head around that
<sham1>
What's wrong with not wanting to touch a mouse
<ffname>
try it for a week, youll never go back
<mcrod>
sham1 nothing
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<heat>
what's right with not wanting to touch a mouse?
<ffname>
mouse = distraction + strain injury
<mcrod>
STRAIN INJURY?
<mcrod>
oh come on
<heat>
bro if you get a strain injury from using a mouse i dont even
<ffname>
gotta stay on the home row brah
<sham1>
I've tried Vimium and qutebrowser and the like. 0/10, not enough Emacs
<heat>
you're either a hardcore cs pro that pracs 25h a day
<heat>
or a weak ass nerd
<mcrod>
to be clear I don't want to get into an editor war thing
<ffname>
latter
<mcrod>
I'm just mesmerized that (n)vim people seem to have 400 key bindings memorized
<heat>
mcrod: EMACS!
<sham1>
Well I do
<mcrod>
and that's JUST nvim
<ffname>
mcrod: what editor do you use then?
<heat>
honestly, fuck editor wars
<mcrod>
we're not even talking i3
<mcrod>
ffname I use CLion
<heat>
MICROKERNELS VS MONOLITHIC????
<gog>
hi
<ffname>
i dont have shit memorized, its all muscle memory really
<heat>
MACH VS MINIX VS LINUX
<gog>
mach
<mcrod>
but CLion has two problems which make it incredibly annoying to use
<gog>
microkernol
<mcrod>
otherwise it'd be _perfect_
<heat>
BSD VS SYSTEM V
<ffname>
mcrod: why dont you use vscode which is superior to clion
<sham1>
Unix
<mcrod>
because i hate vscode
<mcrod>
and for me to prefer a java written product over an electron based one, my hatred is strong
<heat>
life is all about conflict folks, embrace conflict
<gog>
heat: fuck you
<heat>
you need strong opinions on everything
<heat>
FUCK YOU GOG
<mcrod>
i'm an opinionated man
<heat>
YOU AND YOUR STUPID ASS
<ffname>
heres my noob advice, use nvim + i3wm + no mouse + vimium + home row only for a week and youll never go back
<gog>
hhhhhhhhhhh
<sham1>
Life is all about conflict between you and the environment, which wants you dead
<mcrod>
i like i3, i really do
<gog>
life is PvE
<mcrod>
but there's also one *deeply* annoying part about it
<mcrod>
if you have two monitors, and switch to a second workspace, it'll jump to your 2nd monitor
<ffname>
mcrod: thats not true
<mcrod>
instead of a 2nd workspace on your CURRENT monitor where your mouse pointer is
<mcrod>
absolutely it is
<ffname>
you can move workspace to another monitor
<sham1>
It's not bspwm, tgha
<heat>
have you noticed that when you say "i like <thing>, i really do" you never like those things
<sham1>
That's what's annoying
<mcrod>
heat: i don't like the entirety of anything
<mcrod>
I have a problem with almost everything I use
<heat>
do you dislike the entirety of anything?
<mcrod>
yes
<mcrod>
you got me.
<mcrod>
CLion would be fine for me if they'd fix two big issues and didn't let them stagnate for thousands (a few) of years
<ffname>
mcrod: there's no "2nd workspace on current monitor" concept in i3, you have 10 workspaces, some of them at monitor 1 and some at monitor 2 depending on what you did prior
<gog>
i don't like anything or anybody and life is a ceaseless chore
<heat>
i3 is great, here's 100 tiny different details on how to use i3
<heat>
i3 is pretty great, just read the 100 page manual
<ffname>
gog: heat what do you use?
<mcrod>
i use GNOME and I'm fine with it
<gog>
i'm a scrub i use plasma
<heat>
i use plasma but now im using dwm.exe
<heat>
dwm.exe is class, i wish i could have this in windows
<heat>
sorry, in linux
<mcrod>
the thing that really bothers me more than anything is the "leet" unix hacker way is hundreds of hours of configuration
<ffname>
not really
<mcrod>
i'm almost 30. i don't have time for that anymore.
<ffname>
i configured once in 2018
<ffname>
never touched it again
<gog>
what if you could install windows and use it instead of linux
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<mcrod>
i have windows installed
<mcrod>
but I don't use it for development really
<gog>
right but i mean what if you could use it
<mcrod>
oh, well then... i'd use it
<gog>
as if it was that easy
<ffname>
i dont understand you reading 10k pages for uefi or whatever the hell for your OS then lazy out when it comes to 1k lines of config max for your setup
<mcrod>
i don't really do os dev
<mcrod>
not yet anyway
<gog>
i didn't read the whole spec
<gog>
only the parts that were relevant
<heat>
oh, that's easy
<mcrod>
when I download something
<heat>
lots of people dont give a shit about configuring every detail of their life
<heat>
like linus
<heat>
linus has a regular-ass setup
<mcrod>
I want a nice simple GUI configuration instead of having to dick around with 1, 2, or 15,000 possible different configuration files
<bslsk05>
jafarlihi/dotfiles - Personal system configuration files, scripts, etc. (0 forks/3 stargazers/MIT)
<mcrod>
really, why would anyone want to willingly play with 8000 files, possibly make a shit ton of mistakes when in the year of our lord 2023 you can have a GUI and say "I want this, this, and this"
<heat>
because unix
<heat>
KISS!
<mcrod>
it's not simple though
<mcrod>
it's "I have to bury my head in thousands of man pages instead of solving real problems"
<mcrod>
some people might argue that implies that I don't want to read, but those arguments are from weak minds
<ffname>
mcrod: as i said, i did this only once, and barely ever touch it
<heat>
the only problem i have with i3 is that it isn't 20 different utilities all piped together using the Lord's IPC, pipe()
<mcrod>
yeah, and how long did it take you? how much research did you have to do?
<CompanionCube>
obviously i3 is bloat, embrace rio
<ffname>
mcrod: probably 24 man hours
<heat>
knowing them he just copied the whole thing lmao
<mcrod>
if it was anything more than 10 seconds, that's why windows and macos are dominant
<mcrod>
not many people on this earth want to spend a literal 24 man hours doing that.
<gog>
what about 24 woman hours
<gog>
my time is inherently less valuable after all
<heat>
now that's more like it
<mcrod>
gog what
<mcrod>
i value you
<ffname>
this wasnt 24 continious hours, im summing up all the effort i made on my config for years
<mcrod>
<3
<gog>
<3
<heat>
if i had 24 woman hours i would not be messing with dot files
<gog>
how's your rizz
<bl4ckb0ne>
bug ricing is importanf
<heat>
you don't need rizz, you're a woman
<gog>
that's not true
<bl4ckb0ne>
internet points are more important
<gog>
women need rizz too
<heat>
go somewhere, get hit on involuntarily by dudes (some/most of them creepy)
<bslsk05>
github.com: dotfiles/scripts/bin/patinit at master · jafarlihi/dotfiles · GitHub
<gog>
i'm not talking about dudes
<heat>
oh if you mean woman romancing womans
<gog>
bingo
<heat>
then yeah someone eventually needs to have the rizz
<gog>
yes
<sham1>
I dislike the way workspaces work in every god damn WM or desktop
<sham1>
All of them suck
<mcrod>
i dislike everything.
<gog>
if neither has rizz then nobody ever makes a move
<gog>
i use a single workspace
<mcrod>
actually, CLion has 3 problems
<gog>
with a taskbar
<gog>
like god intended
<ffname>
i feel like my productivity skyrocketed once i embraced no mouse + i3
<mcrod>
my GNOME desktop is gorgeous
<mcrod>
can't believe I'm saying that
<sham1>
You should have infinite per-monitor workspaces. Anything else is pessimal AF
<ffname>
10 is good enough for me
<sham1>
GNOME gives you infinite desktops, but only for the primary monitor, while other WMs constrain your workspace amount and some don't even give you per-monitor
<mcrod>
say cheese people
<heat>
gog: you can definitely lack rizz but still hit on people
<gog>
meow
<heat>
cheese people
<sham1>
Like at work, I have a second monitor. It usually has slack running, but sometimes I want other stuff there
<gog>
heat: sometimes it's impossible to know if a woman is flirting with you or just being friendly and in the case of mutual confusion there needs to be at least one person with enough of a rizz threshold to detect the romantic potential energy
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<mcrod>
it's minimal, and it has everything I want, no more or less
<mcrod>
and it's actual environment
<mcrod>
*an actual environment
<gog>
you use arch btw
<heat>
gog that's true but you can do without rizz
<sham1>
It's also pessimal
<mcrod>
however, 3GB of RAM in use is insane
<heat>
it's not optimal for sure
<gog>
it's pessimal without rizz
<heat>
but it works
<ffname>
i cant believe y'all use gnome and plasma and shit, i thought i was with pros here
<mcrod>
linus uses plasma
<sham1>
I use openbox and bspwm
<sham1>
Depends on my mood
<gog>
lel
<mcrod>
a good portion of BSD people use macs
<sham1>
Sometimes WindowMaker
<gog>
i do my professional work on windows with visual studio
<heat>
FreeBSD devs don't use FreeBSD
<heat>
it's just a fact
<gog>
pro gamer tip
<sham1>
I'm glad I get to linux
<mcrod>
we are pure windows at work
<heat>
im sad i get to linux
<mcrod>
it kills me
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<gog>
my coworker has been deivisng a way to run everything in vscode
<mcrod>
it also doesn't help that we're in full windtunnel mode every time we start up our laptops
<ffname>
in my company everyone uses mac except for me
<heat>
if linux wasnt a thing my life would 100% be better
<gog>
if he succeeds i might be able to work on linux
<sham1>
heat: for work it'd be either Linux or windows and I'd rather not the latter
<mcrod>
what i'm trying to do at work is switch us over to CMake at some point, and then we use CMakePresets.json
<mcrod>
and then in theory, everything should just work
<heat>
gog: but do you want to though?
<mcrod>
except it never
<mcrod>
ever
<mcrod>
fucking
<mcrod>
does
<gog>
yes
<heat>
what?
<heat>
why?
<gog>
because i hate windows more than linux
<heat>
windows desktop is clear of linux desktop
<sham1>
Windows is a painful development platform
<heat>
things just work
<mcrod>
also GNOME still has its problems
<sham1>
Even with nuget. Even with all the things
<heat>
yeah sure development sucks, boohoo not the problem here
<mcrod>
right now, I have an annoying "1 notification" thing on Quassel
<heat>
you could even use WSL if you'd like
<mcrod>
there are no fucking notifications asshole
<ffname>
windows folks will do anything to emulate linux environment instead of just using the damn linux\
<sham1>
WSL is annoying in its own special ways
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<sham1>
Have you ever tried to use IntelliJ IDEA with WSL
<heat>
i like being on windows and having things work
<sham1>
It's not fun
<heat>
just like macos, but windows is more familiar
<gog>
i'm thinking about installing plasma for windows
<mcrod>
sham1: so you too also use IntelliJ products
<heat>
bud your first mistake is using IDEA
<mcrod>
i mean, i don't personally
<mcrod>
but sometimes at work, rarely I have to fire it up
<mcrod>
nutty
<sham1>
mcrod: for a Java developer, not doing it would be malpractice IMK
<heat>
lets work on that first, then we work with the WSL integration bit
<Griwes>
over the past few years I've had windows break fundamental stuff on me more than I had linux do the same, and I basically only use windows for gaming (:
<Lian>
heya, is this the right channel for desktop environment development too, or "only" for full OSs? if not, does anyone know a fitting channel?
<gog>
i use linux for gaming
<ffname>
sham1: I used to be a Java developer and only thing I used was nvim
<Lian>
sorry for barging in on the conversation
<mcrod>
in this channel, really anything goes
<mcrod>
but your topic is fine
<sham1>
ffname: the language server is terrible
<gog>
funny because we were talking about deskop envs
<heat>
gog linux for fucking gaming?????
<Lian>
oh thats cool x)
<heat>
cmon gog i thought better of you
<mcrod>
i will never use linux for gaming
<gog>
yes
<sham1>
I do Linux gaming
<gog>
cowards
<sham1>
I even have a steam deck
<mcrod>
elden ring would probably cause this PC to have a stroke on linux
<ffname>
i dont do any gaming at all because im a grown up
<Lian>
i pretty much exclusively use linux for gaming, but i do keep a windows SSD handy for valorant and like one or two other games that ban linux users
<mcrod>
ffname: you must be fun at parties
<gog>
i went to a party on wednesday night
<mcrod>
without heat and I?
<heat>
mcrod linux motherfuckers dont care about spending WAY TOO MUCH TIME making games actually work
<sham1>
Part of being a grown-up means that you know when you can be juvenile
<gog>
yes
<ffname>
real reason i dont game is I dont have a GPU
<gog>
all of the games i care aybout work
<sham1>
Put that on a t-shirt
<mcrod>
the only games I've played lately are ds2 and elden ring
<gog>
fallout new vegas
<gog>
factorio
<gog>
cities sky
<mcrod>
the latter just pissed me off something terrible about 30 minutes ago
<mcrod>
so here I a m
<mcrod>
*am
<heat>
bro
<heat>
ds1
<mcrod>
thanks i hate it.
<heat>
stop playing shit games, play ds1
<mcrod>
i hate ds1.
<ffname>
nothing will top playing HL2 in 2004
<mcrod>
i get to the demon boss then I just have no desire
<Lian>
damn, they made a sequel to deep space nine
<Lian>
s/sequel/prequel
<sham1>
If it was released in 2020 or later, I'm probably not even playing it. Well, some exceptions like Cities Skylines 2 once it releases and some other stuff
<mcrod>
the birth of odo
<sham1>
Old games FTW
<Lian>
the laboratory years
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<Lian>
its a feature film just called ODO.
<gog>
Lian: WHAT
<gog>
link now
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<Lian>
Noo i am kidding, because they were talking about DS1 earlier
<gog>
o
<Lian>
as in, a deep space nine prequel
<gog>
:<
<Lian>
im sorry for getting your hopes up :(
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<mcrod>
i am laughing here
<gog>
i'm a huge niner
<mcrod>
well done
<sham1>
Yeah what happened to Deep space 1 through 8
<gog>
i wanty more ds9
<mcrod>
yeah I think the dominion war was the best part of DS9
<Lian>
i mean, i literally am listening to some vic fontaine in the background, even before we talked
<mcrod>
this is what happened when I had the wrong orientation when connecting the CD-ROM drive to the sound card
<heat>
suck it
<Lian>
consider, when the latest GTA title, GTA 5, came out, I was 12 years old and had to beg my mom to buy it for me
<mcrod>
the system will fail to boot and give out this horrific sound
<Lian>
i was a minecraft kid, when i was ~10 years old i listened to minecraft song parodies and all
<mcrod>
i'm old.
<sham1>
Nostalgia
<mcrod>
god you people are just babies
<sham1>
I remember doing that as well. '98
<Lian>
:P
<Lian>
i do tutor younger people though in uni occasionally and it is kind of upsetting how the generational differences in computer knowledge and skills are
<Lian>
like, i grew up in forums and chatrooms and tinkering with mods and all, computers are second nature to me
<gog>
i tutored when i was in uni and i almost tore my hair out
<mcrod>
i have someone who i am mentoring
<mcrod>
and thank god, thank god my boss bought the books i recommended
<Lian>
but people who are just a bit younger than me grew up around tablets and phones, and they have no idea what a file system is, how a folder works or anything
<mcrod>
he's turning out quite wel
<mcrod>
l
<sham1>
I work for the uni I attend and I've had similar discussions with faculty. It really is depressing to see just how inept some people are
<mcrod>
i wouldn't say they're inept
<gog>
not eveverybody is good at the same things
<mcrod>
they just don't have to care
<mcrod>
i'm sure we'd all be incompetent at gardening
<Lian>
its simply because they grow up on phones and tablets where file structures and window management are not really a thing for the user
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<Lian>
ill have you know i care for several houseplants
<Lian>
:P
<mcrod>
heh
<Lian>
they need repotting
<Lian>
but my tools are still in amazon parcels around the place
<ffname>
heat: how are you 21 and already have that fuck of an OS developed
<gog>
my wife cares for our houseplants i am not a plant person
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<Lian>
all of my partners would kill my plants if i let them near, i am the only one with a green thumb in this house
<Lian>
lol
<gog>
lol
<gog>
nice
<mcrod>
i like ds9 too for what it's worth
<Lian>
i have an Aglaonema Cutlass and an Aglaonema Crete
<Lian>
i was recently thinking about the time in ds9 where... uhh how to avoid spoilers now
<sham1>
Well okay, ineptitude might be a tad harsh. It also means that when I began my studies, the cohort of CS students where I was, was forced to go through like this inane "computer basics" course. Oh well, it was free ECTS so should I complain? Yes!
<mcrod>
i dropped out of college, twice
<Lian>
where kira, miles and keiko had their little time together, it felt very poly.
<mcrod>
i made it out the other side but I wish I hadn't done that.
<killdashnine>
i wish i went to a sensible college
<gog>
i want a space polycule
<Lian>
the He Is Without Sin episode on Risa also had a lot of healthy relationship things in it
<Lian>
the bajoran breakup ritual for example
<gog>
yes
<mcrod>
sham1: i think CS education is a joke entirely
<Lian>
really got to go now for a bit, roommate wants to play ffxiv
<Lian>
see ya in a bit
<killdashnine>
the university i went to the teacher told us whatsapp's IP addresses are secret cuz if it was public everyone could sniff the messages, i quit the next day
<mcrod>
the professors in my experience don't care, in part probably because the students don't care, the professors perhaps have tried to get people to care and have failed to do so, i dunno if they're paid well at all
<mcrod>
and i wasn't about to sit through pure bullshit to begin with
<mcrod>
(again, in retrospect, i should've stayed, for reasons I've stated too many times)
<mcrod>
and frankly, there's nothing that they can teach you that you can't learn from a book
<mcrod>
all you need in this life is K&R 2nd edition, a copy of algorithms 4th by sedgewick, and C: a modern approach 2nd edition
<mcrod>
by K.N. king, along with being in a community where you ask questions
<mcrod>
do some projects, and you're set
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<killdashnine>
ive looked at course schedule of top US universities and I think that'd be a very valuable experience
<killdashnine>
to have that structure and urgency to do the damn exercises
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<mcrod>
if you're doing it with urgency, then you're doing it to pass an exam
<mcrod>
people in top universities are under _enormous_ pressure and strain
<killdashnine>
thats the thing
<killdashnine>
i could use that pressure and strain
<mcrod>
and that's not good for anyone's development
<killdashnine>
otherwise i just slack around whole day
<mcrod>
if you slack around the whole day when you're not under pressure, then that's a you problem
<mcrod>
that's not an insult either, I'm guilty of that too
<killdashnine>
but thats true for majority of people
<killdashnine>
id kill for first world bachelor's degree
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<killdashnine>
damn americans have it good
<mcrod>
no we don't
<killdashnine>
yes you even have student loans
<mcrod>
that's not something to be happy about
<mcrod>
it is the #1 reason I didn't go to college
<mcrod>
or didn't even bother finishing
<killdashnine>
firsties will always say they dont have it good
<mcrod>
we... we kind of don't.
<killdashnine>
then move to third world
<killdashnine>
its all relative
<mcrod>
the EU in many respects has more to offer than what you define as the "first world"
<mcrod>
the risk of being shot in the EU is quite low compared to the US, for example
<mcrod>
we could also talk about medical debt if you want
<killdashnine>
id take those any day for a chance at american university
<gog>
my student debt is ridiculous i'm never going to pay it off lmao
<killdashnine>
gog: how much is it
<gog>
50k
<gog>
give or take
<mcrod>
don't you live in iceland
<killdashnine>
that sounds really reasonable
<gog>
i still have to worry about my loans
<mcrod>
that's not reasonable
<gog>
it's not, i'm barely keeping up with interest
<mcrod>
reasonable is not paying a penny
<mcrod>
gog: no i mean, i thought iceland had pretty good deals
<mcrod>
not $50k
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<gog>
i went to school in the US
<mcrod>
but you live in iceland
<gog>
i'm american
<mcrod>
you are an icelandian (?) citizen
<gog>
no
<mcrod>
oh.
<mcrod>
well that complicates things
<gog>
yeah
<mcrod>
if you were an icelandian citizen i'd just tell you to fucking forget about it
<gog>
my wife is a citizen
<killdashnine>
gog: whats the interest rate like?
<gog>
idek
<mcrod>
they're usually horrific
<mcrod>
student debt generally never goes away
<gog>
i'm still on covid relief from it
<mcrod>
if you can pay off your student loan debt, more power to you
<gog>
but i'm gonna get that phone call eventually saying i have to start giving them money again and idk how
<mcrod>
well honestly
<mcrod>
what's the worst that can happen
<killdashnine>
i wish someone gave me a loan to go to a good university but we dont do that here
<gog>
this is the first month we're living on my income alone and it's... not going well
<mcrod>
it's not like the us navy is going to show up and capture you in iceland for failure to pay student debt
<killdashnine>
gog: i thought software engineer salary is pretty good everywhere
<mcrod>
no
<gog>
my salary is fine
<mcrod>
i get paid $75k/yr
<gog>
it's everything else
<mcrod>
sounds nice, right?
<mcrod>
it's not.
<gog>
i get about $60k and that's a junior dev salary
<mcrod>
with inflation that's basically piss and vinegar
<gog>
after taxes it's like $40k
<killdashnine>
i get 60k too but all i do is dumb webdev
<gog>
all i do is dumb webdev too
<gog>
it's fine
<mcrod>
i want to one day make sweet, sweet 6 figures
<killdashnine>
gog: why dont you upgrade your career, you seem pretty skilled than doing dumb webdev
<mcrod>
but the best way to increase your pay is to get another job
<gog>
this is my first dev job
<gog>
i got lucky
<mcrod>
gog: no seriously though, if you don't pay your student loan debt, what's the worst that's going to happen to you?
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<mcrod>
i'm not telling you not to pay it
<gog>
i could get sued
<mcrod>
I'm telling you to be realistic about what might happen
<gog>
and default judgement
<mcrod>
yeah, but will that lawsuit be respected under international law?
<gog>
which means garnished wages
<gog>
yes
<mcrod>
a-are you sure?
<mcrod>
i honestly don't know
<gog>
because if i was sued and didn't comply with the terms of the settlement i could then be in contempt of court which would be an extradictable warrant
<killdashnine>
gog: i dont understand what you mean by "got lucky", im not half skilled as you and i live in the third world yet i can find 60k+ remote jobs by just sending like 30 applications
<gog>
iceland police would haul me to district court
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<mcrod>
yeah, I see
<mcrod>
killdashnine: that's called luck
<killdashnine>
what luck? she is pretty skilled and has a US degree from sounds of it
<gog>
i'm a dropout
<mcrod>
fully remote jobs are getting rarer, in part because everyone wants one and companies are drinking the koolaid on full remote being bad for business
<mcrod>
we call those companies "too stupid to live"
<gog>
my education got disrupted by a total collapse of my mental health and social safety net
<killdashnine>
gog: you do react too?
<gog>
i've done a little react
<gog>
i'm still learning about it
<killdashnine>
my job is all react, typescript, express and its the easiest thing in the world
<killdashnine>
its cake walk next to osdev shit you do
<gog>
everything is a skill you have to learn
<gog>
i've been learnihng c/c++ for half of my life
<gog>
and i'm still not great
<killdashnine>
you dont have to read fucking 10 different specs for webdev, just 2 books at most
<gog>
i'm a mediocre programmer imo
<heat>
>you dont have to read fucking 10 different specs for webdev
<heat>
just 200
<gog>
there are so many specs for webdev
<killdashnine>
you never need to read them for regular webdev work
<heat>
200 is a conservative estimate
<killdashnine>
its not like osdev
<gog>
i'm full-stack, so i do c#, database, jquery, react, html
<gog>
everything
<gog>
that's a hard job
<mcrod>
where I live in the US, there are 3 job sects you can choose from: defense, webdev, or the random embedded stuff
<gog>
especially when your applications are very rickety
<killdashnine>
ah, c#, that sucks
<mcrod>
that's what I do
<heat>
linox kern
<gog>
i actually like c#
<mcrod>
i refuse to work for a defense contractor, so that's out
<gog>
i can wrap my head around that no problem
<mcrod>
webdev I hate
<gog>
mcrod: WORD
<mcrod>
random embedded stuff is fine
<gog>
the only reasonable internship available to me was lockheed martin
<killdashnine>
DAMN
<gog>
i didn't take it
<killdashnine>
id kill to work at lockheed martin
<gog>
fuck that
<mcrod>
that's a little ironic
<gog>
i will not work for lockheed martin
<heat>
you'd kill? they'd also kill
<heat>
badumtss
<gog>
yep
<mcrod>
killdashnine: most likely what you'd be working on would be directly responsible for deaths of people you've never met, known, or seen
<gog>
nah
<gog>
most likely they'd be doing random shit
<killdashnine>
mcrod: someone's gotta do it
<gog>
nothing that ever gets into avionics
<mcrod>
gog: even random shit
<gog>
even so
<mcrod>
i just wouldn't want to say "i worked for lockheed martin"
<heat>
personally i'd be fine working there
<heat>
morally
<mcrod>
they wouldn't hire me anyway
<gog>
i took a moral stance my gf thought i was a lunatic
<mcrod>
i don't have a degree
<killdashnine>
if only i was US citizen I'd get US education, then top secret clearence, then work at NSA tailored access and memorize all the damn zero days
<mcrod>
getting TS/SCI isn't a walk in the park
<gog>
i think that's when she decided to dump me.
<mcrod>
the forms can be upwards of 600 pages depending on how old you are
<gog>
but waited two years
<gog>
heh
<mcrod>
and depending on how many people you've ever met
<mcrod>
and federal authorities will go to the people that they can find and ask them about you
<gog>
for most people that ever met me "i don't know anybody by that name"
<mcrod>
if I had a choice to work on anything
<mcrod>
it would be medical stuff
<mcrod>
because people have to care
<mcrod>
they HAVE to
<killdashnine>
i worked at medical startup
<mcrod>
there's no margin for error
<killdashnine>
no, i didnt cause THERAC
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<gog>
hhhh
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<killdashnine>
i worked on medical startup app where I had to do lots of Django Python
<mcrod>
yeah that crap doesn't interest me
<gog>
oh right i was osdevving
<mcrod>
it's the pacemakers and the MRI machines
<mcrod>
etc
<gog>
mcrod: move to minneapolis apply at medtronics :P
<killdashnine>
i would never want to work on fucking pacemakers and MRI machines
<mcrod>
and that's fine
<heat>
i wan to work on f35 brrrrrrrrr
<heat>
boom
<heat>
actually dont defence companies pay really poorly?
<mcrod>
no
<mcrod>
not really
<heat>
oh ok
<mcrod>
LM doesn't
<mcrod>
LM pays pretty well
<mcrod>
they're about 30 minutes down the street from where I work
<mcrod>
there's usually a military vehicle around there
<killdashnine>
i was like 4 interview stages into a swiss company paying 130k+ making developer tools before they ghosted me
<gog>
do you live in upstate ny
<mcrod>
me?
<gog>
yeh
<heat>
no mcrod is in pensylvania
<mcrod>
no
<gog>
o
<heat>
gog send me your address
<gog>
oh that's right you're in allentown?
<mcrod>
gog: yes
<gog>
420 west 69th st new york new york
<heat>
what's your daily routine?
<heat>
please describe it extensively
<gog>
wake up and grind
<mcrod>
the day is coming where heat will show up at gog's doorstep
<killdashnine>
smoke weed all day
<gog>
yes
<gog>
i actually did do that today tho
<killdashnine>
you smoked weed all day?
<gog>
all day
<heat>
:(
<killdashnine>
dont overdo it, it can lead to psychosis
<gog>
i'm already psychotic bruh
<heat>
i thought you woke up and grinded
<gog>
i did
<gog>
i grinded the weeds
<heat>
not like that
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<kazinsal>
smokema grindset
* gog
pets kazinsal
<gog>
catboy has entered the chat
<kazinsal>
nyan~
<killdashnine>
whats all this petting bizniz going on here, its some secret code?
<heat>
tomorrow morning i go gym, then test out my knee later on
<heat>
if knee fucked knee fucked
<gog>
gym tuesday morning for me
<gog>
and thursday
<heat>
im trying to go every day except weekends
<heat>
rise and grind
<gog>
i can't afford every day
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<gog>
i'm allegedly supposed to be able to claim 80% of my gym fees from my labor union tho
<gog>
but idk how
<killdashnine>
all the best exercises you can do are for free
<gog>
gym has a pool
<gog>
and all my friends go there
<heat>
i really like seeing the gainz so its definitely worth it
<mcrod>
there's... a labor union for programmers in iceland?
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<gog>
it's an office workers union
<gog>
big tent
<heat>
you dont want to mess with big office
<gog>
that's right
<mcrod>
is it august 18th yet
<gog>
what's august 18th
<mcrod>
the day I move out for the first time in my life
<gog>
oh nice
<mcrod>
you're planning the party right
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<killdashnine>
where are you moving to
<mcrod>
an apartment
<mcrod>
still in my area
<killdashnine>
its funny i might move out around 18th august too
<killdashnine>
if i get the visa
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<killdashnine>
average softeng salary in iceland is 1 million ISK
<killdashnine>
thats insane
<gog>
that's only $7500USD
<gog>
approx
<killdashnine>
thats amazing
<killdashnine>
in my country average is like $700 USD
<gog>
everything costs here
<heat>
things cost
<heat>
money
<heat>
use magic green bill to trade magic green bill for things
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<heat>
magic green bill have numbers on it that represent that same bill's magic level
<killdashnine>
thank god for magic green bills, we'd be living in caves otherwise