klange changed the topic of #osdev to: Operating System Development || Don't ask to ask---just ask! || For 3+ LoC, use a pastebin (for example https://gist.github.com/) || Stats + Old logs: http://osdev-logs.qzx.com New Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev || Visit https://wiki.osdev.org and https://forum.osdev.org || Books: https://wiki.osdev.org/Books
<psykose> hm
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<psykose> but you're like so far
<bl4ckb0ne> am I tho
<psykose> yea like a whole atlantic
<bl4ckb0ne> i can do that tho
<bl4ckb0ne> /me pats psykose
<psykose> ohh i understand
<psykose> it's the intel hyperthreading pat attempt
<bl4ckb0ne> better than nothing eh
<psykose> :3
<heat> hi psykose how r u and what brings you here to #osdev
<psykose> i heard there was a 2 for 1 on heat specials
<bl4ckb0ne> be careful its hot
<psykose> more seriously some1 was shilling me on the osdev discord so it reminded me of this place
<psykose> gave me a short story of when geist ragequit the discord
<psykose> good times
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<bl4ckb0ne> zoomers smh
<psykose> i ain't fall for it
<gog> hi
<gog> are you a cat too
<psykose> :3
<psykose> long time no see gog
* gog prr
* psykose gently glances at gog
<heat> fuck the osdev discord
<heat> all my homies hate the osdev discord
<mjg> what happened heat
<mjg> are you ok
<psykose> it's terminal
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<heat> mjg hater
<heat> i bet there's no discord for illumos
<psykose> you would be wrong
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<Mutabah> I'm pretty sure there's a discord server for everything
<mjg> there used to be a discord for an illumos distro
<mjg> omnios i think
<mjg> mm now that i wrote i'm not confident it was discord specifically, but it was something of that sort
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<gog> what
<gog> an illumos discord
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<heat> i meant an illumos discord client
<heat> unless illumos has a linux personality or some shit
<mjg> illumos does have linux binary compat
<mjg> for realzies
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<gog> i have a linux personality too
<gog> i'm insufferable
* gog dabs
* vdamewood sets a fishy on gog's outstretched arm.
<psykose> fishe :o
<mjg> so i tried watching some x-files
<mjg> few selected episodes are ok
<mjg> but f-word me, how cringe it is for the most part
<vdamewood> Watch an X Files with no lights on, we're dans la maison, I hope the Smoking Man is in this one.
<mjg> i like csm
<mjg> episodes are very formulaic for tv of the era
<vdamewood> csm?
<mjg> cigarette smoking f- man
<mjg> only ever show characters which will be of importance to the plot and make sure there is a "twist"
<heat> mjg how the fuck do you people emulate linux?
<heat> like bug-by-bug?
<mjg> ?
<heat> i.e open not being able to return EINVAL on bad flags
<mjg> there is some degree of that shite
* gog chomp fishy
<mjg> also from what i'm hearing they decided to lol up the main storyline
<mjg> in later seasons
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<Ermine> wtf is efi tape protocol
<GeDaMo> Load from paper tape? :P
<bslsk05> ​uefi.org: 13. Protocols – Media Access — UEFI Specification 2.10 documentation
<Ermine> yeah, but I'd like to see it in action
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<Ermine> why would anybody need this in XXI century
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<GeDaMo> Mainframes!
<GeDaMo> Or maybe industrial equipment
<Ermine> but they don't have efi, no?
<GeDaMo> Not yet! :P
<sham1> At some point you'll need to update them into having EFI
<gog> hi
<Ermine> hi gog, may I pet you
<gog> yes
<Ermine> sham1: and update them to have support for more modern data storage? Or do tapes provide some advantages?
* Ermine pets gog
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<sham1> Your petting made gog disappear¡
<sham1> Ermine: magnetic tape has a very long lifespan
<sham1> If you need to store stuff for a long time, it works
<Ermine> Yes, but I don't think boot stuff needs to last that long
<sham1> *shrug* maybe EFI just wants to support all the things
<Affliction> booting straight from backup media? Perhaps into a restore tool?
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<zid> EFI activates your neurons
<zid> because it's so messed up to look at.
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<sham1> Neuron activation, although in this case it's not good
<mcrod> hi
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<bl4ckb0ne> Ermine: LTO tapes maybe
<Ermine> maybe
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* gog prr
<gog> hi barbie
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<kof123> the uefi tape link mentions hp-ux and ignite something or other as the "application": Ignite-UX Installation Booting - HP www.hp.com › ctg › Manual To boot the tape, the EFI loadfile interface is used to load the file called “BOOTLOADER” from the tape
<bslsk05> ​www.hp.com: Laptop-Computer, Desktops, Drucker, Tinte und Toner | HP® Deutschland
<kof123> so there you go, hp-ux
<Ermine> Ah, that explains everythin
<Ermine> everything
<kof123> quote: There is ski but it can't run HP-UX as it doesn't emulate a full
<kof123> it exists so that you can add tape support so ski and then boot into hp-ux itanium
<kof123> *to
<gog> so most vendors probably don't ship that driver then
<gog> so if you try to query for any handles matching that protocol you'll get nothing
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<gog> even if you have a tape drive
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<Cindy> hiii
<gog> hi barbie
<zid> harbarbinger of doom
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<gog> i am become zid, eater of battered sausage
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<zid> I wish
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<jimbzy> battered sosig
<gog> sosig
<sham1> sosiges
<gog> hi ~~barbie~~ jimbzy
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<jimbzy> I kinda want to see that, but not enough to go to the theater.
<gog> i enjoyed it a lot
<heat> barbye
<jimbzy> It seems like the perfect role for Ryan Gosling's acting range. XD
<heat> i saw oppenheimer but i also want to see barbee
<heat> sadly i didn't have the foresight to barbieheimer
<jimbzy> bbiab
<heat> barbie barbie in a barbie
<sham1> Shrimps on a barbie
<sham1> Please clap
* gog clap
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* Ermine clap
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<zid> I shall see oppenheimer once it hits WEBDL
<zid> -EVO 1080p AC3
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<mcrod> i can't... i can't do it
<mcrod> i cannot beat O&S.
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<zid> neither can heat
<zid> Not locking the camera and taking it slow is the easiest method btw
<zid> oh, do you know the shortcut to O&S from the bonfire btw? Fuck that shit otherwise
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<zid> I think if I had to do the real runback I'd never have beaten O&S :P
<mcrod> yes
<mcrod> the staircase jump
<zid> nod
<zid> locking the camera is usually what gets you dead, anyway
<zid> did you visit the giant blacksmith and upgrade your weapon as far as it'll go?
<heat> i find ornstein easier to separate at the beginning
<zid> yea I use one of two methods
<heat> smough is one immobile fucker
<zid> ornstein charge -> just bruteforce ornstein and hope smough gets distracted
<zid> or if I have a bad weapon
<zid> I just jog backwards with the camera pointing at my face
<zid> selfie-stick cam
<zid> and get smough stuck somewhere
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<shane_with> Hello, I am implementing a kernel for AArch64. Now I am implementing paging. I see the Arm Architecture Reference Manual says: "A fault descriptor may be used to represent a page table which is dynamically generated or which has been written to disk and is not currently resident in memory."
<shane_with> So far I only planned to allow PAGES to be written to disk by swap, and not page tables. Is this feature an important for a modern kernel? I don't want to implement unrealistic paging. Not that I am competing with Linux, but I like to do things The Right Way if I can.
<jimbzy> My kid has been listening to the Final Fantasy VI soundtrack since 7am...
<zid> yea don't page page tables to swap
<gog> idk about aarch64 but i wouldn't write page tables to disk on amd64
<gog> ok
<gog> don't page tables to swap
<zid> jimbzy: Soo.. either buy him headphones or introduce him to ocremix
<heat> swapping page tables is sillay
<heat> and/or doesn't work with modern kernels
<zid> I assume that's for "incredibly low power ARM that needs to do horrendous tricks to work with large memory sets"
<heat> linux and windows both store important info for PTEs
<heat> s/for/on/
<zid> like, it's handy, but you won't use it unless you NEED to use it
<heat> you don't need to do like linux and windows but it turns out it's the best design
<heat> from an efficiency PoV
<heat> in theory kernels like freebsd could recreate the page tables from scratch
<jimbzy> It's the remake on the PS4. It's pretty sweet because they redid all the music using a live orchestra.
<gog> i like that idea
<gog> recreating page tables from scratch
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<heat> IMO it's a bad idea despite being logically clean from a design PoV
<jimbzy> I'm not annoyed by it or anything. It's just funny because he rarely listens to music.
<gog> i'm logically clean from a design POV
<heat> you need to dupe all the data for anonymous memory. lets say you keep a separate radix tree for an anonymous vm region. you're essentially duping all the PTEs (2x the memory cost) plus a bit more of radix tree overhead
<zid> you mean FFVI:PR?
<jimbzy> Yea
<zid> "on PS4" is an odd way to phrase that
<heat> and you'll take longer to do the same thing as you'd need to go down the page tables anyway to handle a page fault, etc
<zid> (it's a switch/pc/ps4/iphone game)
* jimbzy shrugs
<jimbzy> I own a PS4
<heat> and at the end of the day it's incredibly hard to find a data structure that can expand "downwards", so you're screwed in that regard too
<zid> yea but it's like saying He's playing Doom, the pregancy test game.
<zid> pregnanancy
<heat> pregers
<jimbzy> Pregante test?
<zid> gregnanty test
<heat> grognant test
<gog> am i pregonate
<jimbzy> That reminds me... Can you burn a Luigi board?
<heat> it is possible you are preganty, have you had your peerod?
<zid> gog: grats
<shane_with> Heat: I studied in the 4.4BSD Book that this is what 4.4BSD did. But I decided to do my own way like this:
<zid> HRT's getting better every day I guess
<gog> yes
<shane_with> I keep a tree containing what are called VMSections, and a VMSection includes details like "This is {private,shared} " if it's shared "the AnonymousMemory or File is $something", "This is a Copy-on-Write mapping", and so ons
<heat> fyi MAP_PRIVATE is CoW implicitly
<heat> no need for a separate flag
<heat> the 4.4BSD VM design (coming from the Mach VM stuff) is incredibly flawed
<zid> Do you even need to page the pagetables if you have your vmsections
<shane_with> The tree lets me to know useful facts, such as if there is a write fault on a present page in a VMSection which has Copy on Write set, then I must copy the page
<heat> right
<shane_with> heat: I say "Private" for "Anonymous Memory Private to a Single Process"
<heat> that doesnt work
<shane_with> The MAP_SHARED/MAP_PRIVATE disappears and instead the CoW bit is set on the VMSection, ofcourse it does not copy the page if it is just a read fault
<heat> well, it does, but it's not really... important to know?
<heat> why do you care to know if a region is "Anonymous Memory Private to a Single Process" ?
<heat> because then you fork() and that's no longer true
<shane_with> heat: It is important for me, because I don't need separate AnonymousMemory object for process private anonymous memory. I only need the VMSection metadata and then the actual page tables is all I need
<heat> so you don't need separate AnonymousMemory objects at all
<zid> disregard page tables, remake them on the fly with optimized NEON routines
<zid> (That's actually probably really easy)
<heat> well, you'll always need some to do a reverse page -> mapping lookup
<heat> but you don't need a struct AnonymousMemory { struct page *pages[NR_PAGES];};
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<shane_with> For forked I allocate AnonymousMemory objects, they keep a tree of AnonymousMemoryPagePointers which either are pointer to a struct PFN or a swapfile address
<gog> ok my day job as a programmer is over, time to start my evening of playing programmer simulator
<shane_with> Because the page replacement might unmap a page from a process, and then if all processes a page of shared anonymous memory is in have unmapped it, the page can be swapped to disk
<heat> that's not useful
<zid> gog: 3 hours until honzuki
<gog> hi
<gog> cool
<zid> I don't understand what that says
<zid> if all processes unmap a page.. shouldn't it be free?
<heat> if you unmap a single shared page once, you saved 0 memory
<heat> he means when doing page replacement
<heat> i.e not munmap
<zid> so a force 'unactive' from memory pressure?
<zid> that defo doesn't seem like something you'd benefit from doing on "not every reference simultaneously" no, if so
<shane_with> zid: Unmap every reference simultaneously is impossible without doing an rmap, which is described as "unholy" by one Linux contributor
<zid> rmap?
<shane_with> A way to go from a Linux struct page to all the mappings of that page
<zid> reverse?
<shane_with> Yes
<heat> wtf does unholy mean?
<heat> its the only option here
<heat> yes, its not particularly trivial. no, you have no better option
<zid> I assume they were just saying the rmap code was expensive/gross
<zid> which can be both true, and necessary
<shane_with> heat: Instead of it I do a calculation of the working set size of a process (the calculation is updated for increase/decrease regularly) and when a process page faults and has mapped as many pages as the calculated working set size, one of its pages is unmapped according to the FIFO order
<shane_with> When a page is not mapped anymore (but still referenced with either an invalid PTE for process private anonymous memory, or by the tree of a File or AnonymousMemory object which is part of some processes tree of VMSections) in any process, the page goes onto the Cache list
<shane_with> And when I am low on physical PFNs, pages from the Cache list are freed (but first, they are written to disk, if they are dirty)
<sham1> Time for a great password changing bananza
<zid> did you type your old one onto irc again
<sham1> No. My old one is just expiring
<gog> hi
<zid> passwords don't do that
<zid> turns out they're non-organic and don't go off
<sham1> You'd think so
<zid> like, I sorta guess it, you just re-verify that you're you by doing it, and that you haven't been replaced by a person who found your password, and locked you in a basement prison
<zid> but how likely is that REALLY
<zid> s/guess/get
* gog expires
<sham1> AD systems can sometimes get quite annoying about this stuff\
<zid> active dickery
<sham1> yes
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<zid> I've never actually had to deal with AD
<zid> corporate windows envs sound funny
<sham1> It's even more funny when the AD environment is used to inform a Linux environment
<zid> inform it of what, stay away?
<zid> I bet you can do all sorts of cool shit with WSL2 as an admin console now thinking about it
<zid> like, just make the login start a WSL2 VM off a remote
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<zid> heat: He hates you
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<sham1> Accounts for linux boxes backed by AD accounts
<gog> doesn't AD implement some form of LDAP
<zid> pam_ad.so
<zid> probably exists
<sham1> gog: yes
<gog> so then you jus tuse openldap or smth
<Ermine> or samba
<gog> idk i've only ever set up yp for remote auth
<Ermine> Idk which one is better
<zid> cp sekrit_hosts /mnt/c/windows/system32/drivers/etc/hosts
<zid> make the windows account not allowed to access the VM, now it can HACK YOU
<zid> omg
<sham1> zomg
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<gog> xzomg
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<gog> y'all
<gog> i'm bustin
<gog> fish for dinner
* gog dances
<bslsk05> ​'Red Dwarf - Cat Fish' by Rob Gaffyduck Gaffney (00:00:29)
<zid> I saw a picture of danny john-jules yesterday, wearing a caterpiller branded beanie
<zid> (the people who make bulldozers and diggers and stuff)
<gog> neat
<gog> CAT
<zid> My friend works on the fuel injectors the engines use, there's a fun fact for you
<gog> neat
<nikolar> that is fun
<zid> better than my other story
<zid> You know that weird icelandic store page? My friend animated the little rollover when you put your mouse on the + button.
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<mcrod> ok beat S&O
<zid> huzzah
<zid> Who are S&O
<mcrod> yes, taking it slow was the better approach
<mcrod> ok, o&s
<mcrod> is that better
<zid> pikachu and snorlax
<gog> what weird icelandic store page
<zid> idk, whatever it is you do for job
<gog> you have more than one weird icelandic web developer?
<zid> you're furtive
<psykose> misread that as fertile
<zid> GOG IS SUBMISSIVE AND BREEDABLE --psykose
<psykose> fertile and plantable
<zid> You're thinking of moss
<gog> like the moss on the rolling icelandic lava fields
<zid> A rolling tom scott collects no lava
<gog> he better get here soon, the volcano is predicted to wind down within a month
<zid> He wants you to keep it
<zid> The icelandic government have issued him a ban, stating that his entry into the country must be regulated as to not impact the growth of the island
<psykose> where's old zid
<zid> england, new zid is in the colonies
<Ermine> Here's proposal
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<Ermine> s/new // in colonies
<Ermine> and add 'old' where needed in England
<zid> what
<zid> engloldand, / in colonies is in the colonies
<psykose> bot comment
<mcrod> gog: i want pizza
<gog> so have pizza
<mcrod> no i mean
<mcrod> i wanted you to make the pizza
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<zid> Is that a women kitchen joke
<mcrod> ...no
<zid> well maybe it could have been, if you put more effort into the delivery
<zid> 2/10
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<gog> i'm le tired
<zid> The missiles are still under development sorry
<zid> fucking icelandic devs never turn this shit around in time
<gog> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
<gog> everybody's on their month holiday what can i say'
<zid> gog can you export me to some illegal moss
<gog> yeh i gotchu
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<zid> I bet it would grow better here anyway
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<zid> Man, I hate stop signs, they take forever to turn green
<heat> ah had a great nap
<heat> i watched shrek 2 today
<heat> today was a good day
<zid> honzuki my dudes
<heat> shrek 2 > honjunki
<gog> heat: somebody once told me the world is gonna roll me
<heat> wrong song
<psykose> heat has such mom song choices
<gog> heat: o right
<gog> it's that one counting crows song
<heat> shrek 2 has i need a hero
<heat> oh yeah that counting crows thing is the opening soundtrack
<heat> my bad
<heat> but it ended in i need a hero
<gog> solid
<gog> i haven't watched any shrek in years
<heat> shrek is fucking goated
<heat> shrek is my favourite disney princess by far
<mcrod> hi
<mcrod> what the fuck is going on
<heat> we're discussing shrek
<heat> i laughed my ass off when i was 5, i laughed my ass off when i was 20, i'll laugh my ass off when i'll be 70
<heat> it's that funny and that well made
<mcrod> i'll do the same thing when I think of you
* mcrod point and laugh
<heat> show me your O&S fights and i'll laugh my ass off right now
<heat> THE IDIOT DOESNT EVEN HAVE POWER WITHIN LMAO WHAT A LOSER
<gog> a quirked up swamp boy
<gog> goated with the sauce
<psykose> is gog 19 again
<gog> no
<gog> i'm old
<gog> my bones are brittle and my mind is going
<psykose> so 20 then
<gog> yes
<mcrod> heat: i do have power within
<mcrod> and I beat O&S
<mcrod> now I have the lordvessel
<mcrod> but I'm pretty sure I gave it to the wrong person
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<mcrod> gog: may I pet you
<gog> yes
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* mcrod pets gog
* gog prr
<Ermine> gog: may I pet you too
<gog> yes
* Ermine pets gog
<heat> mcrod, huh?
<heat> who did you give it to?
<Ermine> heat: is it possible for onyx kernal to reside on ESP
<heat> Ermine, yep
<zid> mcrod: GREAT CHEST AHEAD
<Ermine> That's nice
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<mcrod> heat: the dude in firelink shrine
<mcrod> not kaathe
<heat> both of those are solid choices
<heat> kaathe is less solid
<heat> fraampt is poggers
<zid> frampt is the normal choice yea
<zid> it's actually hard to even give it to kaathe
<zid> you need to sort of know it's an option in advance and work for it
<sham1> You should try backwards long jumping. I've heard that it makes things easier
<zid> I think I've done it.. once?
<psykose> why does that sound like a meme
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<zid> mcrod: What's your next area plan?
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<zid> A bunch of gold walls came down when you placed the tupperware of teleportation
<mcrod> i'm at the catacombs now
<zid> Enjoy!
<mcrod> i'm not
<zid> I never learned the layout ever
<zid> I *always* did the speedrun skip
<zid> it wasn't until very recently I explored any of the catacombs
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<mcrod> "be wary of tough enemy"
<mcrod> "weakness: anywhere"
<mcrod> oh it's fucking pinwheel
<zid> oh nice, gj
<zid> PROGRESSA DE RAPIDO
<psykose> vamonos
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<heat> mcrod, estas viendo un tutorial?
<heat> sacudindo mi cabeza
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<mcrod> ok pinwheel is dead
<mcrod> I didn't die to him, but I was low on HP
<mcrod> and the drop caused death after the cutscene ended
<mcrod> classic
<zid> which mask
<mcrod> what
<zid> pinwhell always drops one of three masks
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<heat> hello its me from windoze
<heat> broken udpate broke my system again
<heat> cheers
<heat> otoh i feel instantly happier from not using linux
<gog> bu tyou'll feel sad for using windows before long
<gog> it's a neverending cycle
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<psykose> just do more shrooms heat
<mjg> no, do fentanyl
<psykose> don't do fentanyl heat
<mjg> shrooms are for soy boys
<mcrod> oh
<mcrod> mask of the fatehr
<mcrod> father
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<heat> giant dad!!!
<heat> get the giant armor and the zweihander
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<mcrod> i have the zweihandler
<mcrod> giant armor don't haev
<mcrod> have