<Ermine>
why would anybody need this in XXI century
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<GeDaMo>
Mainframes!
<GeDaMo>
Or maybe industrial equipment
<Ermine>
but they don't have efi, no?
<GeDaMo>
Not yet! :P
<sham1>
At some point you'll need to update them into having EFI
<gog>
hi
<Ermine>
hi gog, may I pet you
<gog>
yes
<Ermine>
sham1: and update them to have support for more modern data storage? Or do tapes provide some advantages?
* Ermine
pets gog
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<sham1>
Your petting made gog disappear¡
<sham1>
Ermine: magnetic tape has a very long lifespan
<sham1>
If you need to store stuff for a long time, it works
<Ermine>
Yes, but I don't think boot stuff needs to last that long
<sham1>
*shrug* maybe EFI just wants to support all the things
<Affliction>
booting straight from backup media? Perhaps into a restore tool?
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<zid>
EFI activates your neurons
<zid>
because it's so messed up to look at.
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<sham1>
Neuron activation, although in this case it's not good
<mcrod>
hi
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<bl4ckb0ne>
Ermine: LTO tapes maybe
<Ermine>
maybe
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* gog
prr
<gog>
hi barbie
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<kof123>
the uefi tape link mentions hp-ux and ignite something or other as the "application": Ignite-UX Installation Booting - HP www.hp.com › ctg › Manual To boot the tape, the EFI loadfile interface is used to load the file called “BOOTLOADER” from the tape
<bslsk05>
www.hp.com: Laptop-Computer, Desktops, Drucker, Tinte und Toner | HP® Deutschland
<kof123>
so there you go, hp-ux
<Ermine>
Ah, that explains everythin
<Ermine>
everything
<kof123>
quote: There is ski but it can't run HP-UX as it doesn't emulate a full
<kof123>
it exists so that you can add tape support so ski and then boot into hp-ux itanium
<kof123>
*to
<gog>
so most vendors probably don't ship that driver then
<gog>
so if you try to query for any handles matching that protocol you'll get nothing
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<zid>
neither can heat
<zid>
Not locking the camera and taking it slow is the easiest method btw
<zid>
oh, do you know the shortcut to O&S from the bonfire btw? Fuck that shit otherwise
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<zid>
I think if I had to do the real runback I'd never have beaten O&S :P
<mcrod>
yes
<mcrod>
the staircase jump
<zid>
nod
<zid>
locking the camera is usually what gets you dead, anyway
<zid>
did you visit the giant blacksmith and upgrade your weapon as far as it'll go?
<heat>
i find ornstein easier to separate at the beginning
<zid>
yea I use one of two methods
<heat>
smough is one immobile fucker
<zid>
ornstein charge -> just bruteforce ornstein and hope smough gets distracted
<zid>
or if I have a bad weapon
<zid>
I just jog backwards with the camera pointing at my face
<zid>
selfie-stick cam
<zid>
and get smough stuck somewhere
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<shane_with>
Hello, I am implementing a kernel for AArch64. Now I am implementing paging. I see the Arm Architecture Reference Manual says: "A fault descriptor may be used to represent a page table which is dynamically generated or which has been written to disk and is not currently resident in memory."
<shane_with>
So far I only planned to allow PAGES to be written to disk by swap, and not page tables. Is this feature an important for a modern kernel? I don't want to implement unrealistic paging. Not that I am competing with Linux, but I like to do things The Right Way if I can.
<jimbzy>
My kid has been listening to the Final Fantasy VI soundtrack since 7am...
<zid>
yea don't page page tables to swap
<gog>
idk about aarch64 but i wouldn't write page tables to disk on amd64
<gog>
ok
<gog>
don't page tables to swap
<zid>
jimbzy: Soo.. either buy him headphones or introduce him to ocremix
<heat>
swapping page tables is sillay
<heat>
and/or doesn't work with modern kernels
<zid>
I assume that's for "incredibly low power ARM that needs to do horrendous tricks to work with large memory sets"
<heat>
linux and windows both store important info for PTEs
<heat>
s/for/on/
<zid>
like, it's handy, but you won't use it unless you NEED to use it
<heat>
you don't need to do like linux and windows but it turns out it's the best design
<heat>
from an efficiency PoV
<heat>
in theory kernels like freebsd could recreate the page tables from scratch
<jimbzy>
It's the remake on the PS4. It's pretty sweet because they redid all the music using a live orchestra.
<gog>
i like that idea
<gog>
recreating page tables from scratch
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<heat>
IMO it's a bad idea despite being logically clean from a design PoV
<jimbzy>
I'm not annoyed by it or anything. It's just funny because he rarely listens to music.
<gog>
i'm logically clean from a design POV
<heat>
you need to dupe all the data for anonymous memory. lets say you keep a separate radix tree for an anonymous vm region. you're essentially duping all the PTEs (2x the memory cost) plus a bit more of radix tree overhead
<zid>
you mean FFVI:PR?
<jimbzy>
Yea
<zid>
"on PS4" is an odd way to phrase that
<heat>
and you'll take longer to do the same thing as you'd need to go down the page tables anyway to handle a page fault, etc
<zid>
(it's a switch/pc/ps4/iphone game)
* jimbzy
shrugs
<jimbzy>
I own a PS4
<heat>
and at the end of the day it's incredibly hard to find a data structure that can expand "downwards", so you're screwed in that regard too
<zid>
yea but it's like saying He's playing Doom, the pregancy test game.
<zid>
pregnanancy
<heat>
pregers
<jimbzy>
Pregante test?
<zid>
gregnanty test
<heat>
grognant test
<gog>
am i pregonate
<jimbzy>
That reminds me... Can you burn a Luigi board?
<heat>
it is possible you are preganty, have you had your peerod?
<zid>
gog: grats
<shane_with>
Heat: I studied in the 4.4BSD Book that this is what 4.4BSD did. But I decided to do my own way like this:
<zid>
HRT's getting better every day I guess
<gog>
yes
<shane_with>
I keep a tree containing what are called VMSections, and a VMSection includes details like "This is {private,shared} " if it's shared "the AnonymousMemory or File is $something", "This is a Copy-on-Write mapping", and so ons
<heat>
fyi MAP_PRIVATE is CoW implicitly
<heat>
no need for a separate flag
<heat>
the 4.4BSD VM design (coming from the Mach VM stuff) is incredibly flawed
<zid>
Do you even need to page the pagetables if you have your vmsections
<shane_with>
The tree lets me to know useful facts, such as if there is a write fault on a present page in a VMSection which has Copy on Write set, then I must copy the page
<heat>
right
<shane_with>
heat: I say "Private" for "Anonymous Memory Private to a Single Process"
<heat>
that doesnt work
<shane_with>
The MAP_SHARED/MAP_PRIVATE disappears and instead the CoW bit is set on the VMSection, ofcourse it does not copy the page if it is just a read fault
<heat>
well, it does, but it's not really... important to know?
<heat>
why do you care to know if a region is "Anonymous Memory Private to a Single Process" ?
<heat>
because then you fork() and that's no longer true
<shane_with>
heat: It is important for me, because I don't need separate AnonymousMemory object for process private anonymous memory. I only need the VMSection metadata and then the actual page tables is all I need
<heat>
so you don't need separate AnonymousMemory objects at all
<zid>
disregard page tables, remake them on the fly with optimized NEON routines
<zid>
(That's actually probably really easy)
<heat>
well, you'll always need some to do a reverse page -> mapping lookup
<heat>
but you don't need a struct AnonymousMemory { struct page *pages[NR_PAGES];};
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<shane_with>
For forked I allocate AnonymousMemory objects, they keep a tree of AnonymousMemoryPagePointers which either are pointer to a struct PFN or a swapfile address
<gog>
ok my day job as a programmer is over, time to start my evening of playing programmer simulator
<shane_with>
Because the page replacement might unmap a page from a process, and then if all processes a page of shared anonymous memory is in have unmapped it, the page can be swapped to disk
<heat>
that's not useful
<zid>
gog: 3 hours until honzuki
<gog>
hi
<gog>
cool
<zid>
I don't understand what that says
<zid>
if all processes unmap a page.. shouldn't it be free?
<heat>
if you unmap a single shared page once, you saved 0 memory
<heat>
he means when doing page replacement
<heat>
i.e not munmap
<zid>
so a force 'unactive' from memory pressure?
<zid>
that defo doesn't seem like something you'd benefit from doing on "not every reference simultaneously" no, if so
<shane_with>
zid: Unmap every reference simultaneously is impossible without doing an rmap, which is described as "unholy" by one Linux contributor
<zid>
rmap?
<shane_with>
A way to go from a Linux struct page to all the mappings of that page
<zid>
reverse?
<shane_with>
Yes
<heat>
wtf does unholy mean?
<heat>
its the only option here
<heat>
yes, its not particularly trivial. no, you have no better option
<zid>
I assume they were just saying the rmap code was expensive/gross
<zid>
which can be both true, and necessary
<shane_with>
heat: Instead of it I do a calculation of the working set size of a process (the calculation is updated for increase/decrease regularly) and when a process page faults and has mapped as many pages as the calculated working set size, one of its pages is unmapped according to the FIFO order
<shane_with>
When a page is not mapped anymore (but still referenced with either an invalid PTE for process private anonymous memory, or by the tree of a File or AnonymousMemory object which is part of some processes tree of VMSections) in any process, the page goes onto the Cache list
<shane_with>
And when I am low on physical PFNs, pages from the Cache list are freed (but first, they are written to disk, if they are dirty)
<sham1>
Time for a great password changing bananza
<zid>
did you type your old one onto irc again
<sham1>
No. My old one is just expiring
<gog>
hi
<zid>
passwords don't do that
<zid>
turns out they're non-organic and don't go off
<sham1>
You'd think so
<zid>
like, I sorta guess it, you just re-verify that you're you by doing it, and that you haven't been replaced by a person who found your password, and locked you in a basement prison
<zid>
but how likely is that REALLY
<zid>
s/guess/get
* gog
expires
<sham1>
AD systems can sometimes get quite annoying about this stuff\
<zid>
active dickery
<sham1>
yes
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<zid>
I've never actually had to deal with AD
<zid>
corporate windows envs sound funny
<sham1>
It's even more funny when the AD environment is used to inform a Linux environment
<zid>
inform it of what, stay away?
<zid>
I bet you can do all sorts of cool shit with WSL2 as an admin console now thinking about it
<zid>
like, just make the login start a WSL2 VM off a remote
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<zid>
heat: He hates you
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<sham1>
Accounts for linux boxes backed by AD accounts
<gog>
doesn't AD implement some form of LDAP
<zid>
pam_ad.so
<zid>
probably exists
<sham1>
gog: yes
<gog>
so then you jus tuse openldap or smth
<Ermine>
or samba
<gog>
idk i've only ever set up yp for remote auth
<bslsk05>
'Red Dwarf - Cat Fish' by Rob Gaffyduck Gaffney (00:00:29)
<zid>
I saw a picture of danny john-jules yesterday, wearing a caterpiller branded beanie
<zid>
(the people who make bulldozers and diggers and stuff)
<gog>
neat
<gog>
CAT
<zid>
My friend works on the fuel injectors the engines use, there's a fun fact for you
<gog>
neat
<nikolar>
that is fun
<zid>
better than my other story
<zid>
You know that weird icelandic store page? My friend animated the little rollover when you put your mouse on the + button.
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<mcrod>
ok beat S&O
<zid>
huzzah
<zid>
Who are S&O
<mcrod>
yes, taking it slow was the better approach
<mcrod>
ok, o&s
<mcrod>
is that better
<zid>
pikachu and snorlax
<gog>
what weird icelandic store page
<zid>
idk, whatever it is you do for job
<gog>
you have more than one weird icelandic web developer?
<zid>
you're furtive
<psykose>
misread that as fertile
<zid>
GOG IS SUBMISSIVE AND BREEDABLE --psykose
<psykose>
fertile and plantable
<zid>
You're thinking of moss
<gog>
like the moss on the rolling icelandic lava fields
<zid>
A rolling tom scott collects no lava
<gog>
he better get here soon, the volcano is predicted to wind down within a month
<zid>
He wants you to keep it
<zid>
The icelandic government have issued him a ban, stating that his entry into the country must be regulated as to not impact the growth of the island
<psykose>
where's old zid
<zid>
england, new zid is in the colonies
<Ermine>
Here's proposal
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<Ermine>
s/new // in colonies
<Ermine>
and add 'old' where needed in England
<zid>
what
<zid>
engloldand, / in colonies is in the colonies
<psykose>
bot comment
<mcrod>
gog: i want pizza
<gog>
so have pizza
<mcrod>
no i mean
<mcrod>
i wanted you to make the pizza
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<zid>
Is that a women kitchen joke
<mcrod>
...no
<zid>
well maybe it could have been, if you put more effort into the delivery
<zid>
2/10
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<gog>
i'm le tired
<zid>
The missiles are still under development sorry
<zid>
fucking icelandic devs never turn this shit around in time
<gog>
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
<gog>
everybody's on their month holiday what can i say'
<zid>
gog can you export me to some illegal moss
<gog>
yeh i gotchu
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<zid>
I bet it would grow better here anyway
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<zid>
Man, I hate stop signs, they take forever to turn green
<heat>
ah had a great nap
<heat>
i watched shrek 2 today
<heat>
today was a good day
<zid>
honzuki my dudes
<heat>
shrek 2 > honjunki
<gog>
heat: somebody once told me the world is gonna roll me
<heat>
wrong song
<psykose>
heat has such mom song choices
<gog>
heat: o right
<gog>
it's that one counting crows song
<heat>
shrek 2 has i need a hero
<heat>
oh yeah that counting crows thing is the opening soundtrack
<heat>
my bad
<heat>
but it ended in i need a hero
<gog>
solid
<gog>
i haven't watched any shrek in years
<heat>
shrek is fucking goated
<heat>
shrek is my favourite disney princess by far
<mcrod>
hi
<mcrod>
what the fuck is going on
<heat>
we're discussing shrek
<heat>
i laughed my ass off when i was 5, i laughed my ass off when i was 20, i'll laugh my ass off when i'll be 70
<heat>
it's that funny and that well made
<mcrod>
i'll do the same thing when I think of you
* mcrod
point and laugh
<heat>
show me your O&S fights and i'll laugh my ass off right now
<heat>
THE IDIOT DOESNT EVEN HAVE POWER WITHIN LMAO WHAT A LOSER
<gog>
a quirked up swamp boy
<gog>
goated with the sauce
<psykose>
is gog 19 again
<gog>
no
<gog>
i'm old
<gog>
my bones are brittle and my mind is going
<psykose>
so 20 then
<gog>
yes
<mcrod>
heat: i do have power within
<mcrod>
and I beat O&S
<mcrod>
now I have the lordvessel
<mcrod>
but I'm pretty sure I gave it to the wrong person
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<mcrod>
gog: may I pet you
<gog>
yes
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* mcrod
pets gog
* gog
prr
<Ermine>
gog: may I pet you too
<gog>
yes
* Ermine
pets gog
<heat>
mcrod, huh?
<heat>
who did you give it to?
<Ermine>
heat: is it possible for onyx kernal to reside on ESP
<heat>
Ermine, yep
<zid>
mcrod: GREAT CHEST AHEAD
<Ermine>
That's nice
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<mcrod>
heat: the dude in firelink shrine
<mcrod>
not kaathe
<heat>
both of those are solid choices
<heat>
kaathe is less solid
<heat>
fraampt is poggers
<zid>
frampt is the normal choice yea
<zid>
it's actually hard to even give it to kaathe
<zid>
you need to sort of know it's an option in advance and work for it
<sham1>
You should try backwards long jumping. I've heard that it makes things easier
<zid>
I think I've done it.. once?
<psykose>
why does that sound like a meme
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<zid>
mcrod: What's your next area plan?
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<zid>
A bunch of gold walls came down when you placed the tupperware of teleportation
<mcrod>
i'm at the catacombs now
<zid>
Enjoy!
<mcrod>
i'm not
<zid>
I never learned the layout ever
<zid>
I *always* did the speedrun skip
<zid>
it wasn't until very recently I explored any of the catacombs
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<mcrod>
"be wary of tough enemy"
<mcrod>
"weakness: anywhere"
<mcrod>
oh it's fucking pinwheel
<zid>
oh nice, gj
<zid>
PROGRESSA DE RAPIDO
<psykose>
vamonos
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<heat>
mcrod, estas viendo un tutorial?
<heat>
sacudindo mi cabeza
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<mcrod>
ok pinwheel is dead
<mcrod>
I didn't die to him, but I was low on HP
<mcrod>
and the drop caused death after the cutscene ended
<mcrod>
classic
<zid>
which mask
<mcrod>
what
<zid>
pinwhell always drops one of three masks
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<heat>
hello its me from windoze
<heat>
broken udpate broke my system again
<heat>
cheers
<heat>
otoh i feel instantly happier from not using linux
<gog>
bu tyou'll feel sad for using windows before long
<gog>
it's a neverending cycle
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<psykose>
just do more shrooms heat
<mjg>
no, do fentanyl
<psykose>
don't do fentanyl heat
<mjg>
shrooms are for soy boys
<mcrod>
oh
<mcrod>
mask of the fatehr
<mcrod>
father
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<heat>
giant dad!!!
<heat>
get the giant armor and the zweihander
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