<midfavila>
the liberals might win the fed again, here
<midfavila>
they went from almost losing official status and the tories sleepwalking into a historical supermajority to almost being able to form government
<sad_plan>
maybe people like the idea that the goverment should just leave people the fuck alone. and fight for their individual rights C: or something of the sorts anyhow
<midfavila>
if you think that that happens under a bourgeois democracy you have another thing coming lmfao
<midfavila>
the government is complicit with capital in forcing labour to accept exploitation by the owning class under threat of bullet or starvation
<midfavila>
that's not freedom
<midfavila>
the only reason the liberals are better than the tories rn is because poillievre is a fucking maniac
<sad_plan>
that doesnt sound like proper liberalism. the goverment should protect against things like that. even a liberal one
<midfavila>
that's literally just capitalism
<midfavila>
liberal democracies are intrinsically linked to such a state of affairs
<midfavila>
that's why they're certifiably fucked
<midfavila>
you're allowed to disagree on social window-dressing but the second you threaten the economic system they throw you in jail or murder you
<midfavila>
even if that threat is as simple as socialised housing and food price caps
<sad_plan>
then again, its not proper liberalism. but what would one expect anyway. things dont really change all that much when theres an election imo
<midfavila>
it's absolutely liberalism
<midfavila>
liberalism is the ideology that promotes free trade and the right to own private property
<sad_plan>
correct
<midfavila>
the natural end game of such a belief system is what we have now
<midfavila>
frankly, it just devolves into private-sector dictatorship.
<sad_plan>
not neccessarly. the goverment can impose reasonable rules, making the game more fair, to avoid some players being thrown in the ditch by bigger players
<midfavila>
i mean most of north america's economy is owned by a handful of companies that literally conspire to poison the populace in order to extract wealth from society's health
<sad_plan>
but sure, either political view can most likely be twisted in a way that the poor or unfortunate loose big time
<midfavila>
and the government just lets that happen because muh free markets
<sad_plan>
then the game is either rigged, or just outright unfair rules. and the goverment should impose restrictions to avoid this. but you know, they dont. because more moneeeeyyy
<midfavila>
idk if the government just guaranteed everyone their human rghts we wouldn't have these issues
<midfavila>
yeah they don't because that would be illiberal
<midfavila>
you're infringing on someone's right to use their private property to make insane amounts of money on the backs of the common people
<midfavila>
which is literally gommunism!!!!!!!
<sad_plan>
lol. the game needs to be fair. while I appreciate moar freedum, we cant just let everyone do w/e they like, disregarding what happens to others
<midfavila>
my point is that the game is inherently unfair
<sad_plan>
for sure
<midfavila>
it will always result in massive wealth inequality
<midfavila>
the game needs to be changed entirely
<midfavila>
no amount of rolling back the clock or tinkering with regulations will fix the fact that the system rewards the blackrocks of the world
<sad_plan>
thats why I said we need to impose rules so that the bigger players cant throw everyone else in the ditch to reap massive rewards
<sad_plan>
while it would seem unfair for the better players to be.. punished, we cant have them shit on everyone else in the process
<midfavila>
my point is that the state under capitalism exists to serve capitalists. that won't happen unless they're faced with violence from within or without
<midfavila>
there's a reason unions and labour activity broadly were so succesful in NA during the existence of the soviet bloc and since their fall we've seen massive slides back on labour rights
<sad_plan>
not gonna argue with that. money talks. and everyone wants a bigger piece of the pie
<midfavila>
yeah but when .1% owns more pie than the rest of half the world that's not exactly democratic
<midfavila>
they can use said pie to make sure they get more and more every year
<sad_plan>
yep
<midfavila>
like prime example
<midfavila>
if you take the median wage in ~1970 in britain it was ~10.3k GBP according to government stats
<midfavila>
using the bank of england's inflation calculator that works out to... let me double check so i'm giving you good numbers
<midfavila>
~140k GBP
<sad_plan>
have you looked at the venus project? as oposed to money, its an idea that we can have a resource based economy instead.
<midfavila>
i don't care about how things are distributed, i care about who owns the shit that makes stuff
<midfavila>
so long as fields, factories, shops, etc are privately owned, no matter how things get sliced up, you'll still get screwed\
<midfavila>
so today the median salary is apparently ~35k GBP
<sad_plan>
so who should own the fields, shops and facories for it to be a fair game?
<midfavila>
in an ideal system, nobody
<midfavila>
they should be available for everyone to use as needed
<midfavila>
in a better system than what we have, the state
<midfavila>
but yeah you can see that's about a 75% pay cut
<midfavila>
in purchasing power
<sad_plan>
I have a feeling that nobody would be using it instead, and the entire thing would collapse imidiatly
<midfavila>
lmao
<midfavila>
people who have access to small scale production use it as a hobby
<sad_plan>
people are inherently lazy, and dont wanna do things without any sort of benefit what so ever
<sad_plan>
perhaps
<midfavila>
you are literally in a channel dedicated to tinkering with obscure software for little real benefit
<midfavila>
there are tons of people who work "for free" for lack of a better term because money isn't the main thing people care about, it's like, getting the thing
<sad_plan>
the benefit is simple; its fun. I find it enteretaining. I also learn new things
<midfavila>
yes that's my point
<midfavila>
people have hobbies that interest them
<midfavila>
cooking, programming, woodworking, smithing, working on cars, etc
<sad_plan>
sure some people work for free, but the majority wont be doing that
<midfavila>
that they would love to pursue but can't because of this shit system
<midfavila>
but you aren't "working for free"
<midfavila>
you're receiving things directly instead of payment because production is pegged to demand
<sad_plan>
so, make 5 tshirts for the community, now you have bread this week? :p
<sad_plan>
as an example
<midfavila>
i would think something a little more sophisticated would work better but yes
<midfavila>
something like cybersyn would be really cool
<midfavila>
place demands for a given item, those items get produced and delivered to where they need to be. no need for money to send market signals if you can just place an order directly.
<midfavila>
like i guess what i'm getting at is that money is made up
<midfavila>
it's not real
<midfavila>
we can just not use it
<midfavila>
and things would be fine
<midfavila>
as it is we should probably friggin scale production back considering how much we waste on a global scale
<midfavila>
but if we ever stop then we'll have a market crash
<midfavila>
again
<midfavila>
for like the third or fourth time in the past what, fifteen, twenty year
<midfavila>
years*
<midfavila>
and then millions will lose their houses and jobs and probably die.
<midfavila>
but capitalism works guys
<midfavila>
smdh
<sad_plan>
money is only worth something because we say it is. but it has no real value. before it was backed by gold, but thats no longer the case. money was also invented because trading, like we used to do before we had money, were such an ineffective way to handle transactions between people
<midfavila>
im not doing this again
<midfavila>
gold had no intrinsic value up until very recently
<midfavila>
it was just a commodity like any other
<sad_plan>
it gets really complicated quickly. how many eggs is a cow worth?
<midfavila>
the US dollar is itself a commodity
<midfavila>
it's valuable because people want it. gold was valuable because people wanted it.
<sad_plan>
how recenlty? gold has been traded for atleast couple hundred years, if not 500 or even more. I dont really remember
<midfavila>
when people no longer cared about gold, it faded from relevance as a backing for currency.
<midfavila>
and what the hell is a fucking pharoah going to need gold for? it has no practical use for most humans throughout history
<midfavila>
you know what, no
<midfavila>
i'm not doing this shit
<sad_plan>
well, sure. if you look at things thigs way, nothing except what we NEED, is utterly worthless
<midfavila>
the gold standard is a historical relic and i'm not going to argue that
<midfavila>
go hoard your bullion if you want
<sad_plan>
pharaoes want gold because its fancy. it looks pretty
<sad_plan>
we like pretty things
<sad_plan>
thats why people want gold. but outside of that, its as you said, it has no practical value on our survival and comfort. noone would choose a bar of gold over a warm jacket if it means comfort and survival
worf1338 has joined #kisslinux
worf1337 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
<sad_plan>
midfavila: I stand corrected, it seems the reform doesnt come with the regular cm4 by default, but the name is similar. both has rcm4, but the rpi is a72, whereas the a311d, is a73. which from the name, is bananpi, as you said.
stilbruch has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
stilbruch has joined #kisslinux
fultilt has quit [Quit: Leaving]
floorcrawler has joined #kisslinux
phinxy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
worf1338 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]