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<bike>
char: sure, why not? what is it, just a list of even length? or can you specify key and value types for it
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<char>
bike: yeah. I was thinking of being able to specify the keys and the type of the value for each key. I was thinking of the keys being keywords, but I guess they can be anything that is compared with eq.
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<alcor>
Didn't get any answer on this yesterday, so I'll give it another try: Does standard CL have any facility to "name a funcallable"? I'm familiar with (setf (symbol-function 'curried-func) (curry #'myfunc 42)) but wonder if there is a shorter alternative.
<alcor>
Emacs Lisp has `defalias' which would fit the bill here. I'm looking for a CL equivalent I guess.
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<_death>
not in the standard
<_death>
although (< (length "FDEFINITION") (length "SYMBOL-FUNCTION")) => T
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<alcor>
_death: Unfortunately, both seem to cause a "undefined function" STYLE-WARNING on SBCL, which is annoying. So I ended up doing (let ((f (curry #'myfunc 42))) (defun curried-func () f)) while just passing (curried-func) around instead of #'curried-func.
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<alcor>
I think this might be the first time I'm getting (mildly) irritated by CL's Lisp-2ness. Been smooth sailing until you encounter something like "I want to alias this lambda". It's a very minor issue though, as far as annoyances go.
<_death>
one way to avoid this warning is to separate the setf-fdefinition from the code calling the function and put them in different files
<alcor>
_death: Interesting. Is that a portable solution, or just SBCL-specific?
<_death>
of course you can easily define a defcurry macro (defcurry curried-func (myfunc 42)) that will expand to something like (defun curried-func (&rest args) (apply #'myfunc 42 args))
<lieven>
sbcl is interpreting the phrase "setf may be used to replace..." as indicating that the symbol should already be defined as a function and it issues a warning when that's not the case
<lieven>
it's a valid point of view IMHO
<_death>
alcor: it should work with any implementation
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<_death>
alcor: the model you can have in mind is that each file gets compiled then loaded in its turn.. the setf form gets evaluated during load time.. if the call is in the same file, then the warning appears at compile time because it's not yet fboundp
<alcor>
_death: That makes sense, thanks.
<_death>
alcor: the same goes for macros (with more force), separate definition from use
<_death>
alcor: some people try to work around the issue using eval-when, but it's better to just separate
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<_death>
(I mean macros calling functions while expanding.. if the functions are defined in the same file, then at compile time when a macro form gets expanded the functions may not yet be defined)
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<lieven>
no mainstream CL implementation compiles source to C
<lieven>
wrong channel sorry
<beach>
Not even ECL?
<lieven>
fair enough
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<jackdaniel>
chatgpt: spin a funny story around "- X - said the brave warriod; - Not X - answered the sage; - Fair enough - backed down the warrier"
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<beach>
Well, there is a catch here. You could define "mainstream" to exclude those that compile to C.
<jackdaniel>
yeah, I was just hung on inadequacy of using the "fair enough" phrase after being debunked
<beach>
I see, yes.
<beach>
I was kind of mildly interested in what channel it was meant for, and what prompted the statement.
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* lieven
dresses in sack and ashes
<beach>
But not enough to ask more.
<jackdaniel>
but, since you brought it, the sentence could be finished after "implementation", i.e "no mainstream CL implementation"
<lieven>
it was a statement by Guest43 in #lisp that those implementations that do support "a" single binary compile source to C
<beach>
I see, sort of.
<dbotton>
You have to define compile
* beach
doesn't know what it means to support a single binary.
<dbotton>
Every lisp can produce a single executable that I use
<jackdaniel>
ecl usually links produced executables against libecl.so (it can do monoliths too)
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<dbotton>
Is there a way to retrieve every instance of a class?
<beach>
Nope. Luckily.
<beach>
Luckily, because otherwise, no memory would ever be reclaimed.
<jackdaniel>
something could be thought of if weak pointers are used
<jackdaniel>
(without straining the memory)
<jackdaniel>
some metaclasses that store instances in a database present an operator like find-instances
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<beach>
Even with weak pointers, things would be too slow. Imagine every time you perform a fixnum addition, you would have to enter the new number into some weak hash table.
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<jackdaniel>
I believe that it is fair to assume that the question was concerning standard classes (and standard objects)
<beach>
But then the result would be highly specific to the implementation.
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<jackdaniel>
to clarify -- I'm not saying that 'you could work out something with weak pointers period', I'm saying that 'the problem of no possibility to reclaim memory could be mitigated by using weak pointers had such mechanism existed'
<_death>
gbbopen has the concept of unit classes, whose instances are automatically put on the blackboard.. you can then query for these instances
<jackdaniel>
in other words I was answering the message above mine
<dbotton>
thanks
<bike>
it would be kind of funny if you could query for every live fixnum, though
<dbotton>
I was thinking maybe there was a way to "flip on" for a package and all defclasses for example would be interesting
<dbotton>
For that can certainly just create something
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<dlowe>
You can get all the symbols of a package and see if they name any classes
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<dlowe>
and then hook into the gc scanner :)
<dlowe>
wouldn't be fast, but it's possible
<dlowe>
wouldn't be portable either but *shrug*
<beach>
That won't work unless the class is accessible through FIND-CLASS.
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<dlowe>
then it won't be "in" a package
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<beach>
I suppose you could say that.
<jackdaniel>
classes, unlike instances, may be easily iterated over with op
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<dbotton>
jackdaniel was looking at the last night and thinking if could find all the instantiations
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<dbotton>
I am working on a graphical object inspector but so far you have to add my "probe" to the code to get an object. Was thinking would be nice to have ways to find the objects based on class etc also, similar to smalltalk
<jackdaniel>
(if you want standard classes, then you can use typep)
<dbotton>
I imagine I could figure a way to tool things to capture but I want to do as little modifications for debug as possible to the image
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<dlowe>
Shinmera: writing a little extension to FOR to collect things into vectors and strings
<Shinmera>
ooh
<Shinmera>
please PR :)
<Shinmera>
Would be cool to have it as (foo collecting bar :as :vector) or something
<Shinmera>
... *'vector
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<dbotton>
Does any one know if Phoe is still working on a book covering CLOS with a focus on Generic Functions I think I saw him write? And if will include MOP
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<Shinmera>
Last I heard he was just starting to get back into lisp, but I think he's still quite busy
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<dbotton>
thanks
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