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<whiteman809>
is there common lisp social channel? i want ask you guys about your opinion about c++ compared to common lisp
<whiteman809>
the nice thing in c++ is static typing but common lisp seems to have saner syntax for me
<aeth>
#lispcafe
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<beach>
jackdaniel: Impressive.
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<Pixel_Outlaw>
I was fizzbuzzing with circular lists. Kind of fun idea. Probably not the /best/ way to do it. But modulus is pretty boring and direct. https://i.imgur.com/rLt3pMD.png
<Pixel_Outlaw>
And now I see "items" is a bad parameter name. It should be "list". OOPS
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<jackdaniel>
thanks
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<beach>
I can't figure out the reason for the existence of METHOD-COMBINATION-ERROR and INVALID-METHOD-ERROR. If they were condition types, I could understand it, but functions? Maybe so that they can be traced?
<jackdaniel>
isn't the crux covered in "Because an implementation may need to add additional contextual information to the error message (...)" ?
<jackdaniel>
i.e the implementation constructs the condition and adds additional initargs that depend on dynamically bound /internal/ variables
<jackdaniel>
(or at least it may do that)
<beach>
Yes, I see. That would be a reason not to have them defined as condition types.
<beach>
But I still don't see the utility of the functions.
<beach>
Maybe it will come to me later.
<jackdaniel>
perhaps you've already investigated that, but the long form of define-method-combination metnions that invalid-method-error may be used to "perform further filtering of methods in the body forms"
<beach>
I did not investigate that. Thanks for pointing it out. I'll read up.
<jackdaniel>
also, assuming that the processor of define-method-combination needs to do some cleanup in the handler above that depends on the dynamic context of the definition, then calling error would not be sufficient if you want to punt from inside your own method combination definition
<beach>
I'll give that some thought. Not obvious to me (yet). Thanks again.
<jackdaniel>
sure
<jackdaniel>
and this remark may be a bit off, because I'm always forgetting method combination details, but if I recall correctly, there is involved implementation specific step to compile the effective method at runtime; so the signaled error may need to cross the RUNTIME <> COMPILE-EMF barrier, so you the implementation may chose to handle the appropriate condition at that boundary and resignal it outside of
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<Josh_2>
Hi
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<tfeb>
beach: I have forgotten the details but I am reasonably certain that the CLOS *-error functions exist because the condition system did *not* reliably exist when CLOS was being designed, at least in the implementations they used. And then CLOS got dropped into the standard as a whole thing quite lat
<tfeb>
e on. I can ask someone who was on the committee if I remember. Or KMP probably would know.
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<beach>
tfeb: Oh, that would make a lot of sense.
<beach>
tfeb: Sure, if you know someone, that would be great! Thanks for the offer.
<tfeb>
It does, but I could easily be misremembering: I was around but not involved.
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<beach>
I see. Interesting.
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<tfeb>
asked him, will come back if he replies
<beach>
Thank you!
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<beach>
That theory explains the otherwise weird phrases in the specifications of both METHOD-COMBINATION-ERROR and INVALID-METHOD-ERROR: "Whether <mumble> returns to its caller or exits via THROW is implementation dependent" that I asked about the other day.
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<jackdaniel>
it would be nice if asdf/ccl could nicely follow symlinks
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<gone123>
ello
<gone123>
hello*
<beach>
hello gone123.
<gone123>
i am a complete beginner to common lisp but i have heard good things and would like to learn :) what book or other resources do you recommend
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<beach>
gone123: It depends on whether you know programming in some other language.
<beach>
If you do, Practical Common Lisp is the one that is usually recommended.
<beach>
I think it is available online.
<gone123>
i know a little c, rust and haskell.
<beach>
That should be enough.
<beach>
gone123: Also, I recommend you join #clschool. People hang out there specifically to answer questions from newbies.
<gone123>
i see. thank you very much :)
<beach>
Sure. Good luck!
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<pkal>
gone123: I like PAIP, helped me the most
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<metsomedog>
if I only want the 2nd return value of a multi-return function, is there a better way to do that than e.g. the following? (multiple-value-bind (_ present) (gethash 'k hash-table) (declare (ignore _)) (when present ...))
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<metsomedog>
can I collect only non-nil values with loop?
<bike>
"when x collect x"
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<metsomedog>
ty, just found it in PCL
<random-nick>
on sbcl 2.4.1, this form errors out during macro expansion: (loop for i in (reverse nil) by #'cdr)
<random-nick>
is it a bug? (loop for i in (identity (reverse nil)) by #'cdr) is fine
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<bike>
what's the error?
<random-nick>
unknown LOOP keyword: BY current LOOP context: BY #'CDR.
<random-nick>
looks like some botched optimisation for me, because functions apart from REVERSE seem fine
<random-nick>
to me*
<phadthai>
maybe expand the macro to more closely look at it, it's possible that something is escaped that shouldn't be or the reverse
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<yitzi>
macroexpand will fail in the same way, because the error is in the expansion.
<yitzi>
The error doesn't occur in ECL, Clasp, ABCL, CCL or CMUCL. It also doesn't occur in Khazern. So it's SBCL specific.
<phadthai>
hmm I didn't realize that the form itself was apparently the issue... hmm I also have no error if running it under an older SBCL 1.4.16
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<dbotton>
Is it valid to write a macro that modifies it's arguments - i.e. (defmacro sw (o) `(when (eq ,o 5) (print "here") (setf ,o 10)))
<dbotton>
this works, but is it correct behavior to assume it will
<dbotton>
and by modify I mean the original variable passed in such as (dotimes (n 10) (sw n) (print n)) so that at 5 the loop would stop
<_death>
it's ok to write such a macro, but you'd want to use get-setf-expansion to avoid extra evalaution of subforms, and not use eq to compare against integers, and you shouldn't change dotimes's variable
<phadthai>
I find it to be a strange construct but if the goal is to alter n rather than use the new value in the scope, setf seems to be correct... o is evaluated more than once in that macro however
<dbotton>
thanks!
<phadthai>
and yes an implementation of dotimes could use its own internal counter
<dbotton>
that was something I was curious about also, thanks
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<thuna`>
Is there any scenario where (SET-MACRO-CHARACTER CHAR (GET-MACRO-CHARACTER CHAR NIL)) doesn't restore CHAR?
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