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<pfdietz>
the w-o-t-s would enable you to specify the element-type of the string; I don't think you can do that with format.
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<mrcom>
Asking language lawyers for a comprehension check--clhs 3.2.3.1.2 says no standard macro shall pass on top-level-ness to its subforms.
<mrcom>
On the other hand, looking at SBCL macroexpansion of DEFMETHOD for example, it's emitting "(progn (eval-when ...".
<mrcom>
Which seems logical and non-suprising. But it also looks non-conforming. Am I msssing some nuance?
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<mrcom>
Is this a conformance thing which turned out to not really be important?
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<beach>
EVAL-WHEN is not a sub-form of DEFMETHOD and EVAL-WHEN does not preserve top-level-ness.
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<mrcom>
Hmm. 3.2.1.2 says body of an EVAL-WHEN is treated as an implicit progn, and 3.2.3.1 says sub-forms of top-level progns are top-level. The 3.2.3.1.2 discussion says "PROGN no, LET yes."
<beach>
I think it means it is treated as PROGN after top-level-ness has been removed.
<mrcom>
But I don't see how that makes much sense for DEFMETHOD side effects.
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<mrcom>
I must admit careful reading hasn't shown a sentence that says "top-level eval-when subforms are top-level."
<beach>
3.2.1.2?
<mrcom>
But don't see how top-level (progn (eval-when ..) (eval-when..)), the eval-whens aren't to be counted as sub-forms. They are forms, after all.
<beach>
The EVAL-WHENs are top-level forms.
<beach>
But they are not sub-forms of DEFMETHOD. They are introduced by the macro.
<beach>
The sub-forms of DEFMETHODs are body forms of EVAL-WHEN forms.
<mrcom>
s/3.2.1.2/3.2.3.1/
<beach>
The body of EVAL-WHEN is treated as an implicit PROGN when :EXECUTE is given.
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<mrcom>
Yeahhhh, uhmmm, maybe. "The body of an eval-when form is processed as an implicit progn, but only in the _situations_ [italics in on-line] listed, and _situation_ is defined as :compile-toplevel, :load-toplevel, :execute.
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<beach>
I am afraid I have to vanish for at least an hour. Today is Monday and Monday mornings are chaotic around here. Sorry about that.
<beach>
I'll try to read up later and perhaps come up with a better explanation.
<mrcom>
NP. Not a big practical issue, just double-checking comprehension. Beginning to look like a hand-wavy don't-take-this-quite-literally thing.
<mrcom>
Key point is "don't suprise the users with unexpected and unwanted top-level subforms."
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<mi6x3m>
hey, can someone recommend me a good reference manual for CL's functions, like the string ones, floor ceil etc.
<mi6x3m>
maybe there's a cheatsheet somewhere
<mi6x3m>
i keep searching for the same things over and over
<pillton>
The dictionary section of each chapter in CLHS is pretty good.
<mi6x3m>
yeah it's what i see but this not ultimately convenient
<pillton>
The mini buffer for M-u C-x slime-documentation-lookup also has completion support.
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<younder>
HINT The sequence functions work on strings.
<beach>
younder: What's the context?
<younder>
Just looking through the CL spec it is hard to 'find' the string functions.
<edgar-rft>
CLHS -> Chapters -> Strings -> Strings Dictionary - is that complicated?
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<aeth>
you just have to know that it's called "The Strings Dictionary", which is a bit of a weird name for that sort of thing
<aeth>
and you also need to know that there really aren't that many things there because you're mostly supposed to use the sequences
<aeth>
in the following section
<younder>
It is anemic. Half the functions you find in other languages seem to be missing. That is where the sequence functions come into play.
<aeth>
Well, CL was huge for 1994, but something happened around the same time, with the emerging popularity of something known as the "worldwide web". And then all of a sudden, strings became more important.
<aeth>
If the spec was released 2-3 years later, there probably would've been more
<aeth>
maybe even regex
<younder>
Well there is the all powerful format..
<aeth>
Though maybe CL actually benefits, because its character/string representation makes it easy to do proper Unicode because nobody knew what was going to win in 1994
<aeth>
The main thing that's really missing is being able to do e.g. "foo\n" in strings
<aeth>
which is different from the roughly equivalent but far more verbose #.(format nil "foo~%")
<aeth>
And you can, of course, just use one of probably three different reader macros to do that (but you won't), which is just good enough for "foo\n" to not get added as a feature.
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